1980 Bird/Magic BVG 10
addicted2ebay
Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
0
addicted2ebay
Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
addicted2ebay
Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
<< <i>I've been following it. I was the high bidder for a period which was fun. Figure this has to end much much higher. I know some will say it's sheet cut. Gotta think it goes for 50 min? >>
Know its probably taboo to say, but arent ALL cards sheet cut?
I thought I recall seeing one of these sell for $65,000.
<< <i>$60,667 on 8/11/13. gotta give it a shot at least.... >>
Thanks for the info.
This should get some late action but the way it is pacing I can't imagine it will nearly triple on the close.
The artificial spread appears to be narrowing as expected.
<< <i>took it to $33,333, but lost. woulda been a nice pick up at that, I think! >>
Be glad you lost. BGS 10's are going to collapse as witnessed by this.
A decline in the past year of 44% is all you need to know in the midst of an exploding market for high grade PSA cards.
I recall seeing sales of PSA 10's in the $22,000 and up range and that is up from just over $6,000 a few years ago.
PSA is going up and BGS is going down. This was so easy to see.
Enough said.
enough said.
The market share losses in this category are staggering. If this were smart phones people would be calling for BGS to go out of business.
There was a time when both PSA and BGS had close to 45% share apiece.
Today PSA is over 90%.
PSA financially is as strong as ever and that means a lot for the value of the cards.
There are plenty of nice cards in BGS slabs but as their market share declines you are just fighting an up hill battle from a value perspective.
and a 52 mantle in a bvg 10 (or 9, 8, 7) will ALWAYS maintain value, same goes w/ a bird/Johnson 10.
beckett co. has been around for a looooong time! and, heaven forbid should something ever happen to psa where do you thing all that biz is gonna go? even if sgc get's half of the business, becketts gonna reap the other half, but I think more than that, personally.
i'm not saying your wrong by any means, but maybe just not looking at the overall picture which could easily get skewed w/ one more head scratching instance...
all those guys at Enron and Worldcom thought they had it made.
Comparing financial services firms to card grading firms is really not even possible.
PSA doesn't have a free pass but they have literally kicked the crap out of their competition in the past ten years. I am talking an epic beat down.
I made a decision personally to invest my money in cards that were graded by the leader and perhaps one day that won't be wise but the odds of BGS making a resurgence in my view are incredibly low.
One day if people wake up and BGS throws in the towel it will hurt. I don't see this being a risk with PSA and that makes me feel comfortable.
Becket has a HUGE following that shouldn't be overlooked. Many collectors just getting in the game are modern collectors and prefer their service over PSA/SGC. Many collectors (especially the youngins) have no issues with sheet cut cards.
PSAs registry is a beast and drives prices all over the place.
Personally, I hate sheet cut cards, not a fan of modern and prefer PSA over the competition.
and it is possible. I just did it. along with a few energy and utility companies to boot! bottom line is that it doesn't matter what market said company is involved in, questionable business practices that hinder consumer confidence can shut it down in a heartbeat. doesn't really matter if it's mom and pops soda shop or a beast of a firm like Enron or Lehman brothers. you even questioned the fact yourself of the other gentleman scoring 10's left and right on your wrestling all stars sets, correct? you cant tell me you aren't scratching your head on those!?!?! you even compared your own submittal percentages vs his. hard to believe this hasn't been weighing heavily on your mind lately.
Today PSA is over 90%.
i'd definitely say this one falls into the "83% of all statistics are made up" category or do you have any hard or even soft facts to back this one up?
....and as stated, i'm a psa guy but more importantly, a realist.
<< <i>Comparing financial services firms to card grading firms is really not even possible.
and it is possible. I just did it. along with a few energy and utility companies to boot! bottom line is that it doesn't matter what market said company is involved in, questionable business practices that hinder consumer confidence can shut it down in a heartbeat. doesn't really matter if it's mom and pops soda shop or a beast of a firm like Enron or Lehman brothers. you even questioned the fact yourself of the other gentleman scoring 10's left and right on your wrestling all stars sets, correct? you cant tell me you aren't scratching your head on those!?!?! you even compared your own submittal percentages vs his. hard to believe this hasn't been weighing heavily on your mind lately.
Today PSA is over 90%.
i'd definitely say this one falls into the "83% of all statistics are made up" category or do you have any hard or even soft facts to back this one up?
....and as stated, i'm a psa guy but more importantly, a realist. >>
imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi57.tinypic.com%2F974mbm.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.collectors.com%2Fmessageview.cfm%3Fcatid%3D11%26threadid%3D909172%26STARTPAGE%3D2&h=688&w=921&tbnid=ikQ9iHaCvSh9ZM%3A&zoom=1&docid=DlGSlIxwzTvcjM&itg=1&ei=Drw3VIqJE46MyATqiYKoDw&tbm=isch&ved=0CB0QMygBMAE&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=3144&page=1&start=0&ndsp=22">90%
Here you go. It was 85% just four years ago and PSA continues to steel market share from their competitors.
I am down to just a few BGS cards and it will stay that way. Perhaps you could have flipped this card but it seems to me like catching a falling knife.
and I didn't see any answers in regards to the other guy pulling all the 10's and your personal, self admitted, head scratching...or was it mind boggling? I forget. either way, seems like you are loving the company for their "90% market share" yet feel a lil scathed when it comes to the possibility that something may not be on the level in relative fairness to certain submitters.
<< <i>you actually provided a statistical fact by the said company used as a marketing ploy? cmon, david...you really think that one was gonna fly?
and I didn't see any answers in regards to the other guy pulling all the 10's and your personal, self admitted, head scratching.... >>
It is to early to go back and forth with you.
Perhaps DBCoin can chime in and confirm.
or is it that you just cant admit you are wrong? referencing the above coupled with your blatant assumptions when the proof was fedex'd to you. you made some pretty nasty and immature allegations that were never apologized for my friend!
in the meantime here's some non-biased facts for you:
total cards on ebay by grader:
psa cards = 411,000
bgs = 104,000
bvg = 10,000
sgc = 26,000 (that's shocking)
bccg = 21,000 (agreed. shouldn't count, but is taking up market space)
no math wiz, but doesn't seem like 90% by just looking at it.
"Common sense is the best distributed commodity in the world, for every man is convinced that he is well supplied with it"
The notion that the market share statistics are some how made up is a flawed one. Board member DBCoin attempts to forecast their run rate for both cards and coins and he will confirm business has never been better. Why is that? Why are people sending their cards to PSA instead of BGS and SGC? Why did a Magic/ Bird rookie explode in a PSA holder and collapse in a BVG holder?
The market which is made up of all collectors are voting with their pocket books. Why does a Derek Jeter in a PSA 10 sell for over 15 times what a BGS 9.5 does? Because collectors want PSA.
When you buy a graded card you are not only buying the card inside but the strength of the brand who graded it. The financial health of that company is a huge long term issue and when you look at Collectors Universe's balance sheet they have no debt and are highly cash flow positive. Could the company stumble? I guess. Nothing is impossible but I personally would put those odds in the minuscule category. BGS on the other hand has seen their business simply collapse. Their bread and butter magazine business has imploded and they have literally lost 40% market share. These issues are major one's for cards in their slabs.
I certainly was baffled on my last submission and when I got the cards back some were more clear why they graded lower then I expected. I am fine with the situation. Under no circumstances have I ever indicated that the person nailing the high grade wrestling cards is getting some sort of preferential treatment. It is just surprising where all of the cards are coming from. I personally have never had much luck with the 1983 set but that doesn't mean others can't.
I don't buy into the conspiracy theories about cards getting better grades for different people. If this were the case 4SC wouldn't be getting PSA 8's on many of the wrestling cards they send in.
When I got more heavy into card collecting I did my research on market trends and saw that PSA was winning the race and that it was going to continue to shift in their favor. I am pleased I made that choice.
wouldn't say the bird/magic card collapsed. it was already put out there at an asking price of $85K, after that auctioned off with poor timing, both monthly, weekly and hourly ending. besides there's just 1. so we know this is the card that sold for $60K which means 2 people were originally fighting tooth and nail for it to begin with upon it's initial offering. no surprise there. just because it went for $34 this time doesn't reflect that the company as a whole is plummeting or that it couldn't have went for $40K right around christmas. do I think it woulda got back to $60 or even $50K in the next couple of years, no.
as for the jeter psa 10 vs bvg 9.5....well you are fundamentally comparing apples to pineapples. sure they both end w/ "les" and taste good, but the fact of the matter is, is that there isn't a bvg 10 or if there is there is no documented proof of sale. I think it's pretty much the wide acceptance that most folks consider the 9.5's to equal psa 9's, maybe. and when you compare those, the 9.5s have been selling for $1K more.
as for the conspiracy theorists, I certainly hope not as well. however, many out there do and keeping in mind it doesn't take a company policy to hand out certain grades, just a few employees looking to make a few extra bucks on the side....look at what it's done to dave and adams and the lasting effects and financial woes that an accounting glitch and a few opportunists caused!
but in the end, I'm not dogging on psa or even hyping up bvg. I personally have less than 10 bvg cards and for good reason. but better believe I'm pretty worried about all of my eggs in the 1 proverbial basket with psa. you should be too relating back to the lehman, Enron, mci WorldCom issues. goliath went down and nothing is set in stone or is a sure bet....even an apology when the proof is fedexed to your doorstep.