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"No S" 40% silver Proof Bicentennial Quarter, Half and Dollar
CaptHenway
Posts: 31,562 ✭✭✭✭✭
On August 12, 1974, amid the turmoil over the resignation of President Nixon just a few days before, a ceremonial first striking of the Bicentennial Quarter, Half and Dollar was held at the Philadelphia Mint. The three designers were there for the photo op, though President Ford was not. In ordinary times a President would probably have attended such an event, but these were not ordinary times. It was reported that sets of the coins were given to the three designers, and a set sent to President Ford. Specimens of the new coins were then exhibited at the ANA Convention in Bal Harbour, FL.
Publicity photos sent out by the Mint clearly show all three coins as Proofs. They were widely reproduced, and can be seen among other places on P. 27 of the First (1976) Edition of the Coin World Almanac, which I worked on and which came out in 1975. The coins do not have mint marks. The Dollar is of course a Type One reverse.
Some time later, after the three-piece 40% silver sets with the Mint marks had been released, I was working on a story that involved Bicentennial coins and I retrieved the official Mint photos from the picture morgue to illustrate the story. I noticed that the coins in the photos did not have mint marks. I made a mention of this in the story, but the Editor at the time, Margo Russell, removed the mention as irrelevant to the story. To the best of my knowledge the fact that these were "No S" Proofs had not yet been published anywhere.
When I asked her about the coins, she said that the sets given to the three designers and to President Ford had been later replaced with regular sets, and that the coins without mint marks had been destroyed.
In May of 1978, a 1976 "No S" 40% silver Proof Ike with a Type Two reverse was submitted to Collectors Clearinghouse (see CW 6-7-78, P. 21) by somebody in the Washington D.C. area. He said that it had been found in a cash register in mid-1977 at the Woodward and Lothrup Department Store in Washington, D.C. The Mint's executive offices are in Washington, D.C. The coin was lightly impaired from being mishandled, though like the man in Monty Python's "Holy Grail" who had been turned into a newt, it has apparently gotten better.
Why a "No S" Type Two dollar was struck in 40% silver Proof, or how it came to be spent in Washington, D.C., has never been established. Whether any of the other "No S" 40% silver coins still exist is unknown.
TD
(Edited to correct chronological disorder and to add CW citation)
Publicity photos sent out by the Mint clearly show all three coins as Proofs. They were widely reproduced, and can be seen among other places on P. 27 of the First (1976) Edition of the Coin World Almanac, which I worked on and which came out in 1975. The coins do not have mint marks. The Dollar is of course a Type One reverse.
Some time later, after the three-piece 40% silver sets with the Mint marks had been released, I was working on a story that involved Bicentennial coins and I retrieved the official Mint photos from the picture morgue to illustrate the story. I noticed that the coins in the photos did not have mint marks. I made a mention of this in the story, but the Editor at the time, Margo Russell, removed the mention as irrelevant to the story. To the best of my knowledge the fact that these were "No S" Proofs had not yet been published anywhere.
When I asked her about the coins, she said that the sets given to the three designers and to President Ford had been later replaced with regular sets, and that the coins without mint marks had been destroyed.
In May of 1978, a 1976 "No S" 40% silver Proof Ike with a Type Two reverse was submitted to Collectors Clearinghouse (see CW 6-7-78, P. 21) by somebody in the Washington D.C. area. He said that it had been found in a cash register in mid-1977 at the Woodward and Lothrup Department Store in Washington, D.C. The Mint's executive offices are in Washington, D.C. The coin was lightly impaired from being mishandled, though like the man in Monty Python's "Holy Grail" who had been turned into a newt, it has apparently gotten better.
Why a "No S" Type Two dollar was struck in 40% silver Proof, or how it came to be spent in Washington, D.C., has never been established. Whether any of the other "No S" 40% silver coins still exist is unknown.
TD
(Edited to correct chronological disorder and to add CW citation)
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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Comments
Steve
Wondercoin
<< <i>I believe one of a few different PCGS images taken of the Pcgs-PR66CAM $1 is currently showing in my "Top 100 Modern" registry set (and in the picture gallery of my website). The coin was graded one time by PCGS right after I purchased it from the Bowers sale, where it was placed (and auctioned) in the error section of the auction catalog. It was assigned a Judd pattern number at/around the time Rick Montgomery (former President of PCGS) had it graded for me.
Wondercoin >>
What was it graded in the Bowers sale?
Wondercoin
I knew it would happen.
Wondercoin.
Edited to add... That registry set can be found under "Famous US Coins" (sets).
<< <i>A few years later, while I was with ANACS, a 1976 "No S" 40% silver Proof Ike with a Type Two reverse was submitted by somebody in the Washington D.C. area. He said that it had been found in a cash register in mid-1977 at the Woodward and Lothrup Department Store in Washington, D.C. The Mint's executive offices are in Washington, D.C. The coin was lightly impaired from being mishandled, though like the man in Monty Python's "Holy Grail" who had been turned into a newt, it has apparently gotten better. >>
I find the "Christine Qualities" of that particular coin to be absolutely mesmerizing as one day, I fully expect it to rewind itself to a full PR69DCAM! After all, it has crept up a full 3 points since it was first graded by ANACS as PF63 right? Or are my numbers off?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Ricko. As I mentioned above, the coin resides in my "Top 100 Moderns" registry set. You can view it online.
Wondercoin.
Edited to add... That registry set can be found under "Famous US Coins" (sets). >>
Here's a link tothe coin in Wondercoin's set.
It's the fourth listing and has a wonderful photo.
The original Trueview photo's, which appear in PCGSCOINFACTS ONLINE, are more telling of the wear on the coin than the current PCGS Trueview which can be found here.
There is sizeable ding or damage of some type to the rim at 11:30 on the reverse.The Profile and Bell also display evidence of burnishing and whether that's on the die or the planchet could only be determined by examining a second of third coin.
There is a fairly large contact hit on IKEs eyebrow and behind and below his ear. There's also a "strike through" in that location behind the ear.
Numerous scratches are masked by the latest Trueview but are readily apparent in the original photo.
Given the fact that certain "die" scratches can appear like "scratches" or "hairlines" in the fields of modern silver proofs (Proof Die Scratch Ref Thread), one would have to take that into consideration. However, there is a particular scratch which appears on the rear of the profile which appears to extend into the field. This would lead me to believe that it is indeed a scratch. Given the rarity of the piece, it is certainly an acceptable flaw.
In the original thread, conservation was out of the question and I think that might be a good idea since conservation may reveal more than what one might like to see. After all, the coin was pulled from a cash register and we've all seen the impairments that cash register drawers impart onto sift silver coins.
The name is LEE!
Wondercoin
Great stuff.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
<< <i>I still grade the Ike around Pr67+DCAM and I have been invited to regrade the coin on many different occasions, but does it really matter on a unique specimen. Someone can call it 63, someone can call it gem (Mr. Eureka), someone can call it superb gem. Who cares. Rick Montgomery called it 66CAM the one time he saw and graded the coin (along with the PCGS team) and he grades about as good as anyone in the country as far as I am concerned. With appropriate "gradeflation" in this series considered over the past decade or two, I am probably not too far off with my 67+DCAM assessment. Anyway, the coin is not going anywhere; arrangements have already been made to pass the coin along to future generations.
Wondercoin >>
Andy said: "Barely Choice Proof", not Gem.
And frankly, following David Halls admonition of "Ownership adds a point", I'd be inclined to agree.
What does it matter? Regardless of how some feel, it matters a lot with regard to grading and professional grading. Many 40% Silver Proof IKE's were graded PR69DCAM and PR70DCAM which simply do not deserve that grade and the general reasoning behind such grades had little to do with professional opinions as much as it had to do with "It's just an IKE."
67+?
I think it would be a cold day before that ever occurred but if it ever did, I would certainly have some credibility questions.
The name is LEE!
Those were Andy's final words on the subject way back when. Not that it matters. The coin was graded PR66CAM a long time ago which is all that matters, especially since I have no immediate plans to seek an upgrade on the coin.
I agree that there are some PR69DCAM Ikes in holders that would regrade lower, as well as some that are PR69+DCAM if PCGS ever adopts this grade. I recently sold (168) PR69DCAM Ike sets (11 PC.). I looked at every coin before they were placed in the sets. That is 1,848 coins in that grade of PR69DCAM. So, I have a fairly good idea at what the grade of PR69DCAM looks like at PCGS these days. I am in the process of building (500) more of these sets and I will look at all 5,500 of those PR69DCAM coins before those ship as well. Ike varieties as well as monster DCAM specimens are very cool coins and "not just Ikes". I agree. But, we have digressed.
Wondercoin
With the 1975 no S dime (2 known thus far) fetching around $400,000 at auction not too long ago (and that dime had a Sheet bid of under $50,000 for the longest time prior to that auction), hopefully Justin's party one day will even be bigger on this Unique specimen
Wondercoin.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
Wondercoin.
<< <i>
<< <i>A few years later, while I was with ANACS, a 1976 "No S" 40% silver Proof Ike with a Type Two reverse was submitted by somebody in the Washington D.C. area. He said that it had been found in a cash register in mid-1977 at the Woodward and Lothrup Department Store in Washington, D.C. The Mint's executive offices are in Washington, D.C. The coin was lightly impaired from being mishandled, though like the man in Monty Python's "Holy Grail" who had been turned into a newt, it has apparently gotten better. >>
I find the "Christine Qualities" of that particular coin to be absolutely mesmerizing as one day, I fully expect it to rewind itself to a full PR69DCAM! After all, it has crept up a full 3 points since it was first graded by ANACS as PF63 right? Or are my numbers off? >>
Where and when I saw it corrected in OP. Was a few months before I went to ANACS. Don't recall if it came through ANACS while I was there.
<< <i>I still grade the Ike around Pr67+DCAM and I have been invited to regrade the coin on many different occasions, but does it really matter on a unique specimen. Someone can call it 63, someone can call it gem (Mr. Eureka), someone can call it superb gem. Who cares. Rick Montgomery called it 66CAM the one time he saw and graded the coin (along with the PCGS team) and he grades about as good as anyone in the country as far as I am concerned. With appropriate "gradeflation" in this series considered over the past decade or two, I am probably not too far off with my 67+DCAM assessment. Anyway, the coin is not going anywhere; arrangements have already been made to pass the coin along to future generations.
Wondercoin >>
It may not matter for price fetched at auction, but it certainly matters that the coin be graded by the same standards as other proof Ikes. You make it sounds as though all unique specimens should just be put in PCGS PR70DCAM holders (as the grade doesn't matter anyway)...???
If it had an "S" it would likely be graded around PR65CAM, especially with the rim damage and the scratches in the fields.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I'm concerned about the surfaces of the coin. Are they stable enough to leave as is, or would it be better for the coin to remove some of those localized spots? >>
Put a Brillo Pad to that puppy, really shine it up!
<< <i>
<< <i>I still grade the Ike around Pr67+DCAM and I have been invited to regrade the coin on many different occasions, but does it really matter on a unique specimen. Someone can call it 63, someone can call it gem (Mr. Eureka), someone can call it superb gem. Who cares. Rick Montgomery called it 66CAM the one time he saw and graded the coin (along with the PCGS team) and he grades about as good as anyone in the country as far as I am concerned. With appropriate "gradeflation" in this series considered over the past decade or two, I am probably not too far off with my 67+DCAM assessment. Anyway, the coin is not going anywhere; arrangements have already been made to pass the coin along to future generations.
Wondercoin >>
It may not matter for price fetched at auction, but it certainly matters that the coin be graded by the same standards as other proof Ikes. You make it sounds as though all unique specimens should just be put in PCGS PR70DCAM holders (as the grade doesn't matter anyway)...???
If it had an "S" it would likely be graded around PR65CAM, especially with the rim damage and the scratches in the fields. >>
Well, since the cert number checks out at PR66 with no CA designation, I'm kinda wondering how it could ever achieve PR67+DCAM? Especially with the rim hit and the condition of the fields?
But, whatever.
No doubt that it is a unique coin but to puff it up to a PR67+DCAM simply "because" it's unique? I suppose everybody has their own opinions when it's "their" coin. I expect that if it were my coin that it would be a solid PR63.
The name is LEE!
Then you obviously haven't read what I have written all that closely, or simply chose not to. Either way, that is your right.
In the meantime, as I recall, I have not posted a single new thread about this coin this entire year (maybe none last year either?). But, I will always try to address other posters comments or references to this coin as it is unique and an anticipated very special gift to my son.
Wondercoin
So thanks for sharing with us, and keep 'em coming.
Well, just Love coins, period.
The 1976 Bicentennial Silver Set was my first ever coin purchase directly from the U.S. Mint. I was 14 years old. I still have the set. It will never be sold. The set was my introduction to coin collecting, though I seriously did not start coin collecting until 2003.
Box of 20
<< <i>Lovely to have such a "wonderful" coin, and it truly is. Estimate is a bit high there for a coin IMO that appears to be same as regular issue but missing mintmark. Rare, yes, and congratulations, but exciting, no not really.Double the 400k price? Yikes!
So thanks for sharing with us, and keep 'em coming. >>
In defense of the coin its a bit more complex than just the "missing mintmark" friend.
It is also the "ONLY" 40% Silver Type 2 IKE in existence. Chances are 1 out of a million that another one will show up.
The name is LEE!
But, in my world, this coin is not as "dull" as a simple No S coin struck in San Francisco as part of a five piece proof set simply missing the S.
As far as I know, this coin was struck on the other side of the country at the Philadelphia Mint and, hence, it is not really a "No S" coin at all. The coin was likely produced sometime well after those initial "Ty 1" prototypes of the quarter, half dollar and Ike were produced in 1974 and all (probably) melted as previously discussed. The design changed on the Ike Dollar in the 1976 Proof Set, but the design did not change on either the quarter or the Half Dollar. So, quite possibly a prototype Ty 2 Ike struck in Silver was produced at the Philadelphia Mint (probably in or around 1975) in connection with our Bicentennial Ike Dollar design changing. This also explains why there would have been no silver quarters or half dollars struck at this same time. The Ike is in the Pattern book as a Pattern coin with an assigned Judd number; the No S coins are obviously just errors.
Rick Montgomery also once told me that in his opinion the coin might have been a special Presentation Piece at the time the Mint was changing over the design of the Bicentennial Ike in celebration of the 200th Anniversary of the country. How it ended up in a cash register in Washington DC a couple years thereafter is a mystery I may never learn the answer to in my lifetime. Hopefully, Justin will figure it out in his lifetime. It was an honor when Justin (age 11 at the time) actually got to meet President Ford back in 2001 and snap a special photo with him.
The Ike Dollar is, in one manner or another, linked to the very special 200th Anniversary of this great country and the special Ike Dollars produced for just that occasion. Again, in my world, the coin is much more than a "No S" modern such as the 1975 dime. I personally value it as "Priceless" (so the grade means nothing to me) except I need to make sure my daughter eventually get a "fair shake". Hence, I will need to come up with a price on the coin every year I visit our Estates and Trust attorney.
So, I grade the coin high, value the coin even higher and consider my gift to Justin to be special. Guilty as charged.
Wondercoin
Wondercoin
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>I suspect there are others- its just a question of if and when they get discovered. >>
It's always fun to speculate that there might be another specimen of something. I remember when an 1804 Dollar walked into ANACS and there was a brief time between when I determined that it was genuine and when I determined that it was one of the stolen DuPont coins. I thought gee, maybe this is a new one!
Unfortunately, the hope that an undiscovered specimen of something exists does not translate into a probability that its exists. Facts are facts, and the fact is that right now only one of these exists.
I can certainly appreciate how beauty or rarity is in the eye of the beholder....
So in any case, Newsweek stands by its story. LOL!
Well, just Love coins, period.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>The additional comments by 7Jaguars really add to the perception and reality of rare coins and varieties. >>
Indeed.
But it's still rather exceptional to find a US rare coin that is so "affordably" priced.
<< <i>
<< <i>The additional comments by 7Jaguars really add to the perception and reality of rare coins and varieties. >>
Indeed.
But it's still rather exceptional to find a US rare coin that is so "affordably" priced. >>
Maybe on your budget..........
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The additional comments by 7Jaguars really add to the perception and reality of rare coins and varieties. >>
Indeed.
But it's still rather exceptional to find a US rare coin that is so "affordably" priced. >>
Maybe on your budget..........
I've got a beer budget as well but I can buy things like really beautiful and
gemmy '82-NMM dimes or WI hi-leaf quarters for well under $100 in nice AU.
In fact with luck I can find a nice '72-D type "b" reverse quarter or an '81-P
type "d" reverse in Gem for less than a dollar or even in circulation.
If you want the scarcer and better known modern rarities they get much pri-
cier and farther out of the range of a beer budget.
To each his own. I have to believe the type II Philly Ike will do very well, but
so will some of the cheap moderns too.
Thank you.
Does anyone know/remember what it originally sold for?
BHNC #203
Here is one of the definition from Websters..." something prized especially for great beauty or perfection".
Here is a definition I like from the Urban dictionary..."A gem is something that is absolutely great".
In these days of "Apparantly I can't grade well enough for some people so I gotta go and pay somebody else to grade for me that likely has been doing it for 40 years less than me", them little numbers they put on slabs are all the rage.
With many chasing the elusive top graded "gem" (while they actually are more likely to be chasing some plastic with the highest number on it), the concept of Gem itself has become rather muddled.
When I see a coin that is unique I see a gem.
Short of the existence of another one, what else could it be?
Now, if we discover a second one, we may then need some way to determine which coin is better.
When I see a coin with only 2 known, I still consider them gems.
I subscribe to the... a gem is "something that is absolutely great". crowd.
If you want to call this IKE a 63 fine. If 64, so be it. A 65, well have at it.
At minimum, the coin is for all intents and purposes much more valuable than many high grade "Gem" coins that are graded 65 and higher.
If we are eating our hearts out because we do not own the coin, we can attack and deride the coins' condition, or strike, or color, or it's assigned grade.
That would be somewhat understandable.
But, let us understand that reality for what it is and no more.
This Ike coin is serious numismatic history.
It is a major rarity deserving of our respect, and it's owner(s) to be commended for their intellect.
I also see a priceless coin. The coin is absolutely great.
In today's current market of 57 million dollars Ferraris, this coins actual worth to some sharp eyed and
well healed investor should be in excess of 6 figures...
<< <i>
<< <i>Lovely to have such a "wonderful" coin, and it truly is. Estimate is a bit high there for a coin IMO that appears to be same as regular issue but missing mintmark. Rare, yes, and congratulations, but exciting, no not really.Double the 400k price? Yikes!
So thanks for sharing with us, and keep 'em coming. >>
In defense of the coin its a bit more complex than just the "missing mintmark" friend.
It is also the "ONLY" 40% Silver Type 2 IKE in existence. Chances are 1 out of a million that another one will show up. >>
Wrong stocks rule.
Glad you are an Ike fan Neca, as there are precious few about. Now, about the 800k figure - if you have the money to spend, do let me know! LOL...
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>What in the world are "wrong stocks"?
Glad you are an Ike fan Neca, as there are precious few about. Now, about the 800k figure - if you have the money to spend, do let me know! LOL... >>
LOL...
Generally speaking, in the die, strike, or planchet, error classification world, wrong stock coins would fall into the category of planchet errors.
There is something going on with the metal planchet itself as opposed to their being something amiss with
the dies used to strike a coin (die error), or with a problem involving the actual striking of it (strike error).
In short...Wrong stock errors are full diameter planchet errors that are different from that used in normal scheduled production.
They can be planchets that differ in thickness.
They can be planchets that differ in metal content.
In proof form, they tend toward rarity in the extreme.
In the case of this IKE dollar, the planchet itself can be tracked back to it's supply of metal stock.
The ability of the Ike coin to exist in it's silver form is limited to the supply of 40% silver coil stock that was available in that particular mint.
The amount of that supply may, or may not, be the same amount as that which was made available for use at another mint.
I am a fan of all cool coins.
Edited for correction.
I think on this point, most everyone can agree.
Second, most people tell me they prefer the (current) Unique 1976 Proof Ike Dollar to the (current) mintage two 1975 Proof No S dime.
Third, I get a phone call or email nearly every week from someone thinking they have found the second 1976 Ike Dollar. So much so, that recently the Price Guide editor revised the online article on this coin he had written many years ago to include reference to the fact that the US Mint struck millions of no S 1976 business strike Ikes that exist out there in addition to this one proof example. What is surprising to me is just how many (and how diverse) non numismatic folks call me on finding the second example of this coin. Everyone from waitresses who got one in change as a tip to the Head of a Church recently who received one from a very old congregation member. Many start the call with just how this find is a life changer for them and the break they have been waiting for. I always direct them to their local coin shop first to ask to see a 1975 or 1976 proof set to compare a proof to a mint state Ike dollar coin. I invite them to also send off their coin for authentication to either PCGS or NGC depending upon where they are calling from but caution them on the costs involved and to try to get an opinion first from their local coin shop if such a submission seems warranted after comparing their coin to the coin in the proof set (with the S mint mark). I try to take the time with everyone contacting me. I tell most everyone that it is a very long shot that they have found a second example of a Philadelphia no S proof Ike, but not impossible. The calls and emails have slowed a bit though recently since PCGS edited its online article on the coin.
Wondercoin.