Comic guy with a Sport Cards question
HeroRestoration
Posts: 2
Hi all,
Newbie here who joined so I could ask a question, and satisfy a curiosity. I collect, press, and restore comics, and recently I pressed some baseball cards for a client. At first, pressing got a lot of resistance in the comics world, but is now almost common place. I wondered how it wash treated in the sports cards community?
Example of pressing a card.
Newbie here who joined so I could ask a question, and satisfy a curiosity. I collect, press, and restore comics, and recently I pressed some baseball cards for a client. At first, pressing got a lot of resistance in the comics world, but is now almost common place. I wondered how it wash treated in the sports cards community?
Example of pressing a card.
www.HeroRestoration.net
0
Comments
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>What do you mean press? >>
High pressure is applied to the comic book (card) in the presence of moisture to attempt to remove bends and minimize small creases. It doesn't really remove a heavy crease, but makes it appear less severe.
CGC decided they could not reliably detect pressing, and so declared it not to be restoration. Many do not agree with this stance.
<< <i>PSA wouldn't grade it. >>
They have to be able to detect it to decide not to grade it.
Please turn on your private messages. I would like to PM you and ask who this "client" is.
<< <i>I would like to PM you and ask who this "client" is. >>
I was wondering the same thing.
<< <i>E.T.? >>
Jeter SP?
<< <i>
<< <i>I would like to PM you and ask who this "client" is. >>
I was wondering the same thing. >>
That bad, eh?
www.HeroRestoration.net
Cool.
(1) Soaking - this is usually fairly common especially in prewar cards where you usually soak the card in water to remove it from a scrapbook, etc. It is also sometimes used to remove excess dirt or other residue that has accumulated on the card. After the water soak, the card is usually dried and then placed under some heavy objects such as books to ensure that it dries flat. This process may also remove some warping in the card. I believe this is usually acceptable in the card community as long as NO CHEMICALS ARE USED. Only water or distilled water is acceptable. Anything else is considered altering the card.
(2) Pressing - this is the process to remove wrinkles or creases in the card. This is not acceptable as sometimes over time, the wrinkles or creases may come back. A card may look to be crease-free when it is originally submitted to a TPG. However, at a later time, the creases re-appear, and observers wonder how such a card with creases got such as high grade and got past the graders.
(3) Pressing to trim - one of the reasons that there is a minimum size requirements to cards is to prevent unscrupulous sellers from trimming a card with soft corners so that the end product is a card with sharp corners. They then submit this card for a grade, but it will often fail due to minimum size requirement. However, one way to get around this is to press the card so strongly that the size of the card increases (but it becomes thinner). Then the card is trimmed, so that the corners are now sharp and it is still within the minimum size requirements. Obviously, this is not acceptable to the collecting community.
Lou Gehrig Master Set
Non-Registry Collection
Game Used Cards Collection
I'm sure PSA would pick that up in a second
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
I have a hulk 181 coming in May require your services. PM me when you can.
CollectorAtWork covered the main reasons it won't fly for cards.
I'm ok with a pressed comic. Not ok with a pressed or restored card.
Couple of things to think about:
It isn't a great deal of pressure as Paul states.
The creases don't come back as a previous poster (sorry can't remeber user id) the slight moisture used and the small temp and pressure realign the fibers in the paper and the wrinkle doesn't come back.
In pressing a comic there are several different techniques that are used. Some people cold press. Some use a small amount of temperature. Some use temp and a small amount of moisture. Absolutely NO CHEMICALS ARE USED!
The time a book is in the press is very small. Minutes. Single digit minutes. I know as I've pressed many books for myself and others. Also I have two good friends that press. One is the best in the business who does it as his livelyhood. The other is just as good but doesn't do it as his profession.
I'm not sure with the thickness of the cardboard on a card how effective it will be. I believe the wrinkles can be lessened but how PSA would deal with the remains of the wrinkle...dunno. I think there will still be evidence although much much less.
It already seems like the idea of pressing a card is not going to go over well here lol. And that's cool. But how can soaking a card not be considered restoration? Not trying to start an argument the logic just doesn't track for me.
And as a previous poster said: this can be an informative discussion. Let's try and keep it that way
Cheers!
Arex
Also, I've seen books which appear obviously pressed to me (spine dings which are visible but appear unusually light). In most cases, such books appear over graded to me by CGC which makes me wonder why they seem hell bent on rewarding pressers.
Finally, from a purely practical standpoint, I'm acquainted with a very wealthy collector, someone who has bought and sold 6-figure comics regularly in the past. He confided to me that he has stopped buying graded comics due to weariness with the crack and resub game and manipulation of comics in general. Doesn't sound healthy for the hobby long term to me.
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Two questions, as someone who has just heard about this
for the first time in this post...
First, I can see remnants of the crease in the example
given. PSA already downgrades for wrinkles on a card,
so how much more would they downgrade for a crease
than a wrinkle? Would it be much different?
Second, and again, I'm just learning about this from this
post, but how is this different from taking a pair of women's
hose and getting gum residue off the front of a card?
John
~
Edited to add that I do not approve of this doctoring
at all. It reeks of deception. Still, I think the above
questions are fair to ask.
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
<< <i>"It's the idea of manipulating an item to improve it's appearance. "
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Two questions, as someone who has just heard about this
for the first time in this post...
First, I can see remnants of the crease in the example
given. PSA already downgrades for wrinkles on a card,
so how much more would they downgrade for a crease
than a wrinkle? Would it be much different?
Second, and again, I'm just learning about this from this
post, but how is this different from taking a pair of women's
hose and getting gum residue off the front of a card?
John
~ >>
How effective pressing is for comics depends on the nature of the defect. Best results come with non color breaking bends, warping, etc. Even if a defect is not completely removable, it may be lessened enough to favorably affect the grade. There are countless numbers of comics whose grades have improved due to pressing, and at the high end a tiny improvement means a lot of $$. The potential for this attracts a lot of interest from those with financial motives, of course.
As for removing wax, everyone has to make up their own mind about these things. To me, removing something that was not on the card in the first place in a way that has no effect whatsoever on the card is not the same as trying to undo actual damage. It's kind of like brushing off a crumb that fell on the card. I agree though that it's not entirely black and white.
Perhaps someone from Net54 could hand me a Dick Towle?
<< <i>For cards, I think that there are three variations of this, and pressing in general is not accepted.
(1) Soaking - this is usually fairly common especially in prewar cards where you usually soak the card in water to remove it from a scrapbook, etc. It is also sometimes used to remove excess dirt or other residue that has accumulated on the card. After the water soak, the card is usually dried and then placed under some heavy objects such as books to ensure that it dries flat. This process may also remove some warping in the card. I believe this is usually acceptable in the card community as long as NO CHEMICALS ARE USED. Only water or distilled water is acceptable. Anything else is considered altering the card.
(2) Pressing - this is the process to remove wrinkles or creases in the card. This is not acceptable as sometimes over time, the wrinkles or creases may come back. A card may look to be crease-free when it is originally submitted to a TPG. However, at a later time, the creases re-appear, and observers wonder how such a card with creases got such as high grade and got past the graders.
(3) Pressing to trim - one of the reasons that there is a minimum size requirements to cards is to prevent unscrupulous sellers from trimming a card with soft corners so that the end product is a card with sharp corners. They then submit this card for a grade, but it will often fail due to minimum size requirement. However, one way to get around this is to press the card so strongly that the size of the card increases (but it becomes thinner). Then the card is trimmed, so that the corners are now sharp and it is still within the minimum size requirements. Obviously, this is not acceptable to the collecting community. >>
The pressing(#2 above) aspect reminds me of what many did in the 80's/90's with a process called "spooning". Where one rolled a spoon,the bottom/curved part of the part of the spoon that holds the liquid, back/forth over a crease/bubble to flatten it. Also the pressing to trim(#3 above) was accomplished via pressing a card under a certain tonage (PSI) in a mechanical press of sorts to "stretch" the cardboard thereby allowing more material to be trimmed from the edges. This does in fact result in a thinner stock card.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>I will confess that when I was a kid I used to put bent cards in a textbook and sit on it to try and mitigate the bend or crease
I put mine in my bike wheels so the spokes would "age" my cards.
<< <i>The law is alteration and restoration that effects the value is legal-- as long as you disclose it at sale.
The litmus test is simple: If you disclose what you did to an item, will it lower the value (visa vie not disclosing it)? If it would, you have to disclose it. >>
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That's fine for the first time it's sold, and sold by the one
who did the restoration, but what about after it has
changed hands two or three times and the current
owner doesn't know what was done, if anything? The
card is still there, with the same restoration.
What then?
John
~
"America suffers today from too much pluribus and not enough unum.".....Arthur Schlesinger Jr.