<< <i>Wow what a surprise - I had thought MS63 / 64 with the hits in the center and on right knee of MS Liberty. No way a 66 CAC or not.
CAC can green bean all they want, it is not a 66 coin IMO. I would give it a 64 and would never pay more than 64 money for it. The hits on the leg and chest knock it down from 66 and possibly 65......not a 66 coin. I hope you did not pay anywhere near 66 retail for it LOL. I have been in the business since 1990 and my grading opinions are my own from years on the bourse and an ANA grading seminar. I have over 100 Saints in my bankbox investor collection and have been grading these things for decades. >>
Post your 64's, 65's and 66's in the same format as the OP and wait for it. Someone will be able to pick them apart, trust me.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i> If PCGS is more conservative than NGC on a certain series then it is logical that CAC would have a higher sticker rate. I don't think that CAC varies it's standards for the different grading services. >>
If you factor in the stated mission of CAC which is to make a market for CAC coins, with the understanding that the market prefers one brand over another. Would it not make sense that they apply extra scrutiny to NGC holders to ensure a CAC level of "quality" or marketability. This is supported by the acceptance metrics from my understanding.
<< <i> If PCGS is more conservative than NGC on a certain series then it is logical that CAC would have a higher sticker rate. I don't think that CAC varies it's standards for the different grading services. >>
If you factor in the stated mission of CAC which is to make a market for CAC coins, with the understanding that the market prefers one brand over another. Wound it not make sense that they apply extra scrutiny to NGC holders to ensure a CAC level of "quality" or marketability. This is supported by the acceptance metrics from my understanding. >>
That statement is made because JA has different bids for the same CAC coin depending on which service holdered it. Their standards are the same for the coin regardless of which service holdered it.
Quick question, thought CAC disregarded the + designation and looked at it as a 66 if it was graded 66+? >>
True. But as a PCGS 66+ it was already reviewed as having fewer marks and better luster, color, eye appeal than your typical MS66 A/B coin. That alone means the odds should have gone up for a sticker. In a perfect world I'd sort of expect a $20 gold PCGS 65+ or 66+ to always get a sticker. But it doesn't quite work that way as CAC places far more emphasis on original/wholesome surfaces than they do on marks or luster blast. If the coin doesn't have the right "look" for gem gold CAC won't sticker it regardless of how blasty or mark free it is for the grade. They prefer original coins, even with those "dreaded" copper spots.
<< <i> And, if CAC stickers a + or * coin, it doesn't mean they agree with the + or the * for either TPG. It means they think it is an A or B coin for the grade. Not only are they hard on $20 pieces, but word on the street is that they are perhaps just as hard on seated liberty coins. >>
That word on the street is not accurate, at least not for gem MS/PF 64-67 seated material. I've submitted a lot of it. My stickering rate for gem seated is multiple times higher than for gem $20 Saints. I even had one submission of $20's to CAC that had a few dozen MS62-MS64 rattlers, ogh's, and NGC fatties that I had hand selected over the years. And my sticker rate on that group was only around 40%. A few of them gold stickered. But I was very surprised the sticker rate was not 75-95%. Imagine how low that rate would have been for MS65's to MS66's where a sticker actually gets a big premium? I've seen orders of >100 mixed PCGS/NGC MS65 Saints come back with only 6% stickered. That would be unheard of for a mixed lot of MS65 seated dimes, quarters, or halves.
Everyone of my MS-66 Saints are stickered whether PCGS or NGC. Quite a few of them I found myself. Roadrunner has seen me in action whether at the 62,63,64,65 or higher. Quite frankly, I love and own these Saints in old slabs with green or gold stickers. But none of my MS-66 or MS-67 Saints have gold stickers, just green stickers, no exceptions. It takes about 5 years or more but eventually your eye gets trained to know what stickers or not.
While I believe there is a very small chance this coin will sticker, for $12.50 it is a low cost and low risk to find out. Who knows? You cannot be sure just from a photograph.
It is a very nice Saint regardless and enjoy it!
But darn those NGC stars!! I still do not know what they mean!!!
Comments
<< <i>Wow what a surprise - I had thought MS63 / 64 with the hits in the center and on right knee of MS Liberty. No way a 66 CAC or not.
CAC can green bean all they want, it is not a 66 coin IMO. I would give it a 64 and would never pay more than 64 money for it. The hits on the leg and chest knock it down from 66 and possibly 65......not a 66 coin. I hope you did not pay anywhere near 66 retail for it LOL. I have been in the business since 1990 and my grading opinions are my own from years on the bourse and an ANA grading seminar. I have over 100 Saints in my bankbox investor collection and have been grading these things for decades. >>
Post your 64's, 65's and 66's in the same format as the OP and wait for it. Someone will be able to pick them apart, trust me.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
If PCGS is more conservative than NGC on a certain series then it is logical that CAC would have a higher sticker rate. I don't think that CAC varies it's standards for the different grading services. >>
If you factor in the stated mission of CAC which is to make a market for CAC coins, with the understanding that the market prefers one brand over another. Would it not make sense that they apply extra scrutiny to NGC holders to ensure a CAC level of "quality" or marketability. This is supported by the acceptance metrics from my understanding.
<< <i>
<< <i>
If PCGS is more conservative than NGC on a certain series then it is logical that CAC would have a higher sticker rate. I don't think that CAC varies it's standards for the different grading services. >>
If you factor in the stated mission of CAC which is to make a market for CAC coins, with the understanding that the market prefers one brand over another. Wound it not make sense that they apply extra scrutiny to NGC holders to ensure a CAC level of "quality" or marketability. This is supported by the acceptance metrics from my understanding. >>
That statement is made because JA has different bids for the same CAC coin depending on which service holdered it. Their standards are the same for the coin regardless of which service holdered it.
Choice Numismatics www.ChoiceCoin.com
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
<< <i>
<< <i>CAC doesn't easily sticker MS66+ coins either. >>
Quick question, thought CAC disregarded the + designation and looked at it as a 66 if it was graded 66+? >>
True. But as a PCGS 66+ it was already reviewed as having fewer marks and better luster, color, eye appeal than your typical MS66 A/B coin. That alone means the odds should have gone up for a sticker. In a perfect world I'd sort of expect a $20 gold PCGS 65+ or 66+ to always get a sticker. But it doesn't quite work that way as CAC places far more emphasis on original/wholesome surfaces than they do on marks or luster blast. If the coin doesn't have the right "look" for gem gold CAC won't sticker it regardless of how blasty or mark free it is for the grade. They prefer original coins, even with those "dreaded" copper spots.
<< <i> And, if CAC stickers a + or * coin, it doesn't mean they agree with the + or the * for either TPG. It means they think it is an A or B coin for the grade. Not only are they hard on $20 pieces, but word on the street is that they are perhaps just as hard on seated liberty coins. >>
That word on the street is not accurate, at least not for gem MS/PF 64-67 seated material. I've submitted a lot of it. My stickering rate for gem seated is multiple times higher than for gem $20 Saints. I even had one submission of $20's to CAC that had a few dozen MS62-MS64 rattlers, ogh's, and NGC fatties that I had hand selected over the years. And my sticker rate on that group was only around 40%. A few of them gold stickered. But I was very surprised the sticker rate was not 75-95%. Imagine how low that rate would have been for MS65's to MS66's where a sticker actually gets a big premium? I've seen orders of >100 mixed PCGS/NGC MS65 Saints come back with only 6% stickered. That would be unheard of for a mixed lot of MS65 seated dimes, quarters, or halves.
Quite frankly, I love and own these Saints in old slabs with green or gold stickers. But none of my MS-66 or MS-67 Saints have gold stickers, just green stickers, no exceptions. It takes about 5 years or more but eventually your eye gets trained to know what stickers or not.
While I believe there is a very small chance this coin will sticker, for $12.50 it is a low cost and low risk to find out. Who knows? You cannot be sure just from a photograph.
It is a very nice Saint regardless and enjoy it!
But darn those NGC stars!! I still do not know what they mean!!!