When does a shipping fee of slabs become exorbitant?
macboube
Posts: 336 ✭✭
Had an issue very recently with eBay mega seller Probstein123. I decided to dwell into '77 Topps baseball when I noticed a nice high quality set break Probstein was auctioning on eBay. At the end of the day, I won 196 slabs (for over $2k). They were won over different days. He created 6 invoices and charged shipping fees on each. The fees totaled $83. I asked him to combine and reduce the fee and after about 15 different eBay messages back and forth, at the end of the day, he did not reduce the fee one cent. He claimed he was bound by eBay rules as they limit invoices to 40 items. Obviously we all know this, as I have been collecting for years and have utilized Ebay for over 2000 slab purchases myself, which have included several purchases of 100 or more slabs from various sellers in the past. I pointed out that when Prewar, Novella, or the likes ship large lots, they do combine shipping fees in that they will charge for shipping on one of the 40 lot invoices and just charge zero on others. Seller Probstein skirted this example and reasoning stating they possibly didn't understand eBay rules and this was not allowed and could further jeopardize his power seller ratings. He argued and refused to combine and reduce the rate. I know those 196 slabs could easily pack and fit in two large USPS Priority flat rate boxes and be sent for a cost of under $33. I explained that to him and he still refused - standing his ground that eBay would not allow it. Of course when I called and spoke to an eBay supervisor they disagreed. Several times during our correspondence Probstein offered just to cancel everything, and initially I refused in hopes I could reason with him to reduce the fee to some reasonable amount. I even advised him that on 7/21/14 I had won 113 slabs on eBay from seller Apple383. Over three invoices Mike charged $12.50, free and free to ship them all. More than fair, right? Probstein blew that off as perhaps he didn't understand eBay rules. Lastly, I advised that after 8 years of buying and spending thousands of $$$$ with him, I would just cease if he failed to combine shipping. He could care less.......Bottom line, collectors need to be aware of the major sellers who want to profit on shipping fees, particularly on large purchases.............If any collectors have a take on this, I would love to hear them.
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They listed a "master set" once, but the provided pictures didn't show a number of the inserts. I e-mailed them to clarify as if the "master set" included the autographed and game used inserts as well, which they confirmed was indeed the case. I won the auction and when it arrived, it did not include those insert sets. All they told me was I could return the set, at my own expense, for their mistake.
Their listings are often inaccurate and the "item descriptions" are 5% about the item listed and 95% about consigning with Probstein. It seems like he has a bunch of cheap labor working for him that have minimal hobby knowledge, interest, or attention to detail. They are all about churn and burn.
Then, of course, as has been discussed many times on these forums the bid history on many of their listings seem... let's just say "odd". But, in fairness, the same can be (and has been) said about other consignment sellers.
Personally, with these and all the other stories I've read on various forums, I've gotten to the point where I just won't bid on their listings unless they are truly unique, hard to find items.
Snorto~
$3.00 flat shipping no matter how many cards purchased. Total shipping cost will be $3.00 whether you win 1 card or all my cards.
I know there are others as well and I realize these are raw cards as opposed to graded slabs. But as a buyer, I always appreciate the approach and I tend to put in more bids. I may not bid higher but I do bid on more cards. Overall, it's a more pleasant experience so I try to support sellers that take this approach.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
~WalterSobchak
1955 Bowman Raw complete with 90% Ex-NR or better
Now seeking 1949 Eureka Sportstamps...NM condition
Working on '78 Autographed set now 99.9% complete -
Working on '89 Topps autoed set now complete
<< <i>A large flat rate box can hold about 200 PSA cards for $17.45 >>
True, but to anyone out there who hasn't tried this I would not recommend it. I've done this 4 or 5 times, and each time I've had slabs cracked in transit.
Robert
email bcmiller7@comcast.net
So this is great...he basically is admitting that he is charging excessive shipping fees to reimburse himself (plus a lot extra) for eBay selling fees. Not going to out him just yet as I am still trying to cancel the order.
<< <i>I'm running into this issue right now. I just won 3 1977 PSA commons - about $7 each, from the same seller. He sends me an invoice charging me $6 for shipping for 3 slabs USPS first class. Honestly, it's one of the most egregious excessive shipping costs I've seen for such a light order. Anyway, I ask him if he can knock down the shipping to something more reasonable, and his response is "We don't offer combined shipping. This policy is due to excessive Ebay fees, Paypal fees, and shipping fees".
So this is great...he basically is admitting that he is charging excessive shipping fees to reimburse himself (plus a lot extra) for eBay selling fees. Not going to out him just yet as I am still trying to cancel the order. >>
Were his shipping charges clearly stated in his auction description? If so, you are probably not going to get much sympathy. Seller is losing money on these cards if he had them graded. $6.00 shipping is not unreasonable under the circumstances.
Please do yourself a favor and either honor your commitments or contact seller before you bid to find out if he/she combines shipping.
It's amazing to me when people do their negotiating AFTER the auction closes. I do not believe sellers are required to combine shipping.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm running into this issue right now. I just won 3 1977 PSA commons - about $7 each, from the same seller. He sends me an invoice charging me $6 for shipping for 3 slabs USPS first class. Honestly, it's one of the most egregious excessive shipping costs I've seen for such a light order. Anyway, I ask him if he can knock down the shipping to something more reasonable, and his response is "We don't offer combined shipping. This policy is due to excessive Ebay fees, Paypal fees, and shipping fees".
So this is great...he basically is admitting that he is charging excessive shipping fees to reimburse himself (plus a lot extra) for eBay selling fees. Not going to out him just yet as I am still trying to cancel the order. >>
Were his shipping charges clearly stated in his auction description? If so, you are probably not going to get much sympathy. Seller is losing money on these cards if he had them graded. $6.00 shipping is not unreasonable under the circumstances.
Please do yourself a favor and either honor your commitments or contact seller before you bid to find out if he/she combines shipping.
It's amazing to me when people do their negotiating AFTER the auction closes. I do not believe sellers are required to combine shipping. >>
Yes, it says he provides discounts for combined shipping, which he did - $0.75, knocking down his shipping for 3 slabs from $6.75 to $6.00. Not looking for sympathy either, just thought I'd add to the conversation.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>It is just bad business all around. You squeeze the last dollar out of someone and you have a profitable transaction. You treat them fairly and you hopefully build a profitable relationship. Big difference a LOT of folks don't get. >>
This is very true.
On the other hand I get more annoyed when high dollar cards have a big shipping charge. On any item I sell over $50.00, I ship for free in a Priority Mail box. On cards that are this cheap why whine about a couple of dollars? You get a great deal on slabbed cards and then want a great deal on shipping as well. Give the seller a break.
edited to add; if this is such a big deal for you, simply contact seller BEFORE you bid and then you have the information. Sellers and buyers have been having these issues forever, so be part of the solution instead of a part of the problem. Becoming upset after the fact and refusing to honor your purchase because you didn't do your "homework" is much worse to me than his SLIGHTLY high shipping charge.
<< <i>Exactly, that is why I shouted out this topic re 123Prob. $2k spent and $83 shp chg for a max cost of $33. Xtra $50 profit for Rich Rick.......Nonsense. >>
Sorry to be part of derailing the thread. $50.00 is too much in the example you cited. I had 123prob sell some cards for me and in the end I decided to list them myself.
I feel that I do a much better job of posting photos (always at least 2) and I actually write a description about the item.
There are advantages to consigning cards. I tried it and didn't like the results, especially if you want to get creative with your auctions.
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
<< <i>200 Neutral/neg feedbacks on shipping might do the trick too! >>
All that will do is cause a blocked bidder, and most likely, removal of the feedback.
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stupid print dots
USPS published rates for a Large Flat rate box is $17.90, Signature Confirmation $2.90, $1000 Insurance $14.25 (either paid for or covered under their own policy), $35.05 total. 2 boxes required, so $70.10 total cost to ship 196 valued at over $2000 per your instructions of seller using 2 large flat rate boxes(except for not thinking about providing insurance on the shipment for you).
It doesn't matter how other sellers ship similar items to you. They're all free to ship any way they like. Probstein lists 3.50 shipping per item, along with a note "Probstein123 reduces shipping costs if you win multiple auctions ! please wait for the invoice ...." If I'm bidding on 196+ cards it would be a very good thing to know exactly how much $686 in listed shipping costs will be reduced to. Will it be free, $34, or $83. Buying 196 cards worth over $2000 and then pressuring the seller to ship them in a way and cost you demand is wrong. If all 196 cards arrived media mail with $12 postage on it then I can see why you would feel you didn't get excellent value from the $83 shipping charge. How exactly were the cards shipped to you?
that works out to 42 cents per item. I would call that very reasonable overall. Plus don't forget, ebay takes a 9% cut
of all shipping charges now, so really Probstein is netting $75.53 for the actual shipping costs in your example.
Which if packaged correctly and insured, would come out to over $60 in my estimation. I know Probstein packages items very well,
unlike 90% of other sellers on ebay.
Also, remember he's a consignment seller, these are not his own cards he's selling. He has employees he has to pay to
actually do the work there, which involves scanning, listing, invoicing, packaging, etc..... these expenditures all
cost money. He's running a business. I expect a seller to make some $$ on the shipping. That's how they're able to stay in
business and offer up reasonable consignment rates and keep attracting various consignors to his business model on ebay.
So he made $15-20 profit on shipping out 196 graded cards, big freaking deal. After all the costs are factored in, he might
have made 10 cents shipping profit per card on your order.
The next time you buy on ebay, ask the seller who's charging $5-6 on one card if they'll take only $2 to ship it instead.
That seller will tell you to get bent.
I just got an invoice from Probstein, two cards shipped for $3.75 . He only charged me a quarter for the second card.
Solid seller. I'll be back for more.
<< <i> Buying 196 cards worth over $2000 and then pressuring the seller to ship them in a way and cost you demand is wrong. >>
Good point.
Shipping charges have been, and continue to be, a big issue. Some sellers try to make a profit on shipping, I don't agree with that, however some buyers seem to think sellers aren't even allowed to cover the cost of supplies and postage.
If shipping charges are clearly stated in auction and you think they are too high, contact the seller and politely inquire about them. If you are not willing to make any effort, then you should simply pay the amount billed.
In my opinion sellers should be able to cover the cost of supplies and postage only, other expenses should come out of his profits. Paying employees should NEVER be done by inflating shipping charges, insurance is also the sellers responsibility.
<< <i>I don't know, I look at the total shipping costs per item, in the OP's case, you were charged $83 for 196 slabs,
that works out to 42 cents per item. I would call that very reasonable overall. Plus don't forget, ebay takes a 9% cut
of all shipping charges now, so really Probstein is netting $75.53 for the actual shipping costs in your example.
Which if packaged correctly and insured, would come out to over $60 in my estimation. I know Probstein packages items very well,
unlike 90% of other sellers on ebay.
Also, remember he's a consignment seller, these are not his own cards he's selling. He has employees he has to pay to
actually do the work there, which involves scanning, listing, invoicing, packaging, etc..... these expenditures all
cost money. He's running a business. I expect a seller to make some $$ on the shipping. That's how they're able to stay in
business and offer up reasonable consignment rates and keep attracting various consignors to his business model on ebay.
So he made $15-20 profit on shipping out 196 graded cards, big freaking deal. After all the costs are factored in, he might
have made 10 cents shipping profit per card on your order.
The next time you buy on ebay, ask the seller who's charging $5-6 on one card if they'll take only $2 to ship it instead.
That seller will tell you to get bent.
I just got an invoice from Probstein, two cards shipped for $3.75 . He only charged me a quarter for the second card.
Solid seller. I'll be back for more. >>
Very good points and I think that puts a fork in this conversation...someone mention Nazis
<< <i>KbKards
Collector
You just ship 100 in a lg flat rate priority box for about $17.
USPS published rates for a Large Flat rate box is $17.90, Signature Confirmation $2.90, $1000 Insurance $14.25 (either paid for or covered under their own policy), $35.05 total. 2 boxes required, so $70.10 total cost to ship 196 valued at over $2000 per your instructions of seller using 2 large flat rate boxes(except for not thinking about providing insurance on the shipment for you).
It doesn't matter how other sellers ship similar items to you. They're all free to ship any way they like. Probstein lists 3.50 shipping per item, along with a note "Probstein123 reduces shipping costs if you win multiple auctions ! please wait for the invoice ...." If I'm bidding on 196+ cards it would be a very good thing to know exactly how much $686 in listed shipping costs will be reduced to. Will it be free, $34, or $83. Buying 196 cards worth over $2000 and then pressuring the seller to ship them in a way and cost you demand is wrong. If all 196 cards arrived media mail with $12 postage on it then I can see why you would feel you didn't get excellent value from the $83 shipping charge. How exactly were the cards shipped to you? >>
KB - again, I will correct you. Please try to get on board with the facts and not defend the fact that seller Prob attempted to profit $50 on this transaction in shipping fees. 1) I cancelled the transaction in its entirety to show my position and integrity as a buyer, and in an attempt to understand how to treat your better, frequent repeat purchase customers - of which he could care less. 2) In the past, over several thousands of dollars worth of purchases, Prob has never once shipped me an order that was insured. Furthermore it is generally not necessary, as shipping "signature required" ostensibly achieves proof of safe delivery (and this is how so many major sellers ship things). So no insurance costs were EVER factored in to this $83 equation. Anyone can easily fit 100 slabs in MED flat rate priority box (let alone a LG) - quickly, safely and inexpensively - well packed and good to go. So with his eBay USPS shipping discount and two fees for SIGN REQD, Probs costs were less than $30 - and believe me, if you dont think he knows that, I've got several bridges avail. for your purchase. 3) It does matter how other peers and COMPETITORS ship, if you care to retain your customer base in large qty transactions. As I am living proof of this, and I spend lots of $$$ collecting slabs. There is no question in my mind and other knowledgeable collectors minds that this example of shipping was exorbitant and un-necessary.
<< <i>
<< <i> In my opinion sellers should be able to cover the cost of supplies and postage only, other expenses should come out of his profits. Paying employees should NEVER be done by inflating shipping charges, insurance is also the sellers responsibility. >>
So True!
I don't own a pitchfork, but I also don't understand the blind loyalty.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
I don't believe that a seller should be shipping/handling items at a loss, let alone free, in an auction environment - so just reset expectations on this and problem solved.
eBay should also clear list this in their rules.
Erik
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's