BBCE Wrapped Pop Report
60sfan
Posts: 311 ✭✭✭
Will BBCE publish a pop report showing what wax boxes have been BBCE wrapped?
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Has anyone ever thought or talked about this... What is the possibility of someone searching boxes are wrapped by the BBCE? Especially the earlier clear shrink wrap days? Now if you buy it direct from BBCE, then you have piece of mind but there is a ton a previously wrapped material that just seems like it can be tampered with fairly easily, no?
<< <i>Steve,
Has anyone ever thought or talked about this... What is the possibility of someone searching boxes are wrapped by the BBCE? Especially the earlier clear shrink wrap days? Now if you buy it direct from BBCE, then you have piece of mind but there is a ton a previously wrapped material that just seems like it can be tampered with fairly easily, no? >>
I actually like cello boxes with the old wrap as Steve does not cherrypick boxes when he wraps them and the only way to get a BBCE wrapped box back then was directly from Steve. Obviously, people that now send cello boxes to Steve to shrinkwrap know what packs are inside before sending them.
I personally have no reservations about buying an older BBCE wrapped box with the sticker and clear wrap. I even have a couple from previous case rips we had on CU back when Steve used a gold business card under clear shrinkwrap and did not note boxes as being from a sealed case. Those who do can resubmit their boxes to Steve and if I understand correctly, he will rewrap them for a flat $5 fee plus shipping.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Steve,
Has anyone ever thought or talked about this... What is the possibility of someone searching boxes are wrapped by the BBCE? Especially the earlier clear shrink wrap days? Now if you buy it direct from BBCE, then you have piece of mind but there is a ton a previously wrapped material that just seems like it can be tampered with fairly easily, no? >>
I actually like cello boxes with the old wrap as Steve does not cherrypick boxes when he wraps them and the only way to get a BBCE wrapped box back then was directly from Steve. Obviously, people that now send cello boxes to Steve to shrinkwrap know what packs are inside before sending them.
I personally have no reservations about buying an older BBCE wrapped box with the sticker and clear wrap. I even have a couple from previous case rips we had on CU back when Steve used a gold business card under clear shrinkwrap and did not note boxes as being from a sealed case. Those who do can resubmit their boxes to Steve and if I understand correctly, he will rewrap them for a flat $5 fee plus shipping. >>
Just for example, I have seen the clear wrap with the gold business card. Doesn't it seem easily for some unscrupulous character (and we know this hobby is LOADED with them) to unwrap, do what they do and then rewrap the box with the business card and sell the box? That just seems to easy. If WIWAG can change cards in PSA holders creating artificial value, it just seem like a matter of time until something like this happens with BBCE wrapped boxes?
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<< <i>
<< <i>Steve,
Has anyone ever thought or talked about this... What is the possibility of someone searching boxes are wrapped by the BBCE? Especially the earlier clear shrink wrap days? Now if you buy it direct from BBCE, then you have piece of mind but there is a ton a previously wrapped material that just seems like it can be tampered with fairly easily, no? >>
I actually like cello boxes with the old wrap as Steve does not cherrypick boxes when he wraps them and the only way to get a BBCE wrapped box back then was directly from Steve. Obviously, people that now send cello boxes to Steve to shrinkwrap know what packs are inside before sending them.
I personally have no reservations about buying an older BBCE wrapped box with the sticker and clear wrap. I even have a couple from previous case rips we had on CU back when Steve used a gold business card under clear shrinkwrap and did not note boxes as being from a sealed case. Those who do can resubmit their boxes to Steve and if I understand correctly, he will rewrap them for a flat $5 fee plus shipping. >>
Just for example, I have seen the clear wrap with the gold business card. Doesn't it seem easily for some unscrupulous character (and we know this hobby is LOADED with them) to unwrap, do what they do and then rewrap the box with the business card and sell the box? That just seems to easy. If WIWAG can change cards in PSA holders creating artificial value, it just seem like a matter of time until something like this happens with BBCE wrapped boxes? >>
Anything is possible. That's why Steve offers the service to rewrap any box you maight not feel confident enough to buy for just $5. Personally, I have dealt with many of the same sellers over the past 15 years collecting unopened, and provenance is key. It's the same thing with raw wax, cello and rack--if you do your homework and learn what to look (and look out) for, you can resonably improve your chances of acquiring legitimate product. And as I mentioned earlier, the older BBCE wrapped boxes have much better odds of not being cherrypicked, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
We did a group rip maybe 4 years ago and one of the boxes was a 1976 FB wax box. Steve had sold it to someone (always remained a mystery who) and later purchased back from that person assuming it was still legit. It was when he was only using the clear wrap and his gold business card IIRC.
Anyway, the packs were all sold and distributed and when people started ripping them it was clear that the packs had been searched.
Steve made good to all who had purchased the packs. I do not know this for sure but I am thinking that incident lead BBCE to start using the clear wrap with the business sticker on the outside--which predated the current logo wrap.
I do think that it is only a matter of time that someone try to copy the current logo wrap. That's why I do think BBCE needs to stay a step ahead and use some sort of incandescent light with tracking serial # and logo. That stamp could be affixed to the outside of the wrap so if someone ripped the box open and searched the packs they might be able to wrap it back in the counterfeit BBCE wrap--but would not have the stamp to affix to the outside of the new wrap. It cannot be that expensive and would mean the crooks would have another hurdle to climb.
What do you think Steve? Anything on the horizon?
<< <i>if there is $$ to be made--people will try anything.
We did a group rip maybe 4 years ago and one of the boxes was a 1976 FB wax box. Steve had sold it to someone (always remained a mystery who) and later purchased back from that person assuming it was still legit. It was when he was only using the clear wrap and his gold business card IIRC.
Anyway, the packs were all sold and distributed and when people started ripping them it was clear that the packs had been searched.
Steve made good to all who had purchased the packs. I do not know this for sure but I am thinking that incident lead BBCE to start using the clear wrap with the business sticker on the outside--which predated the current logo wrap.
I do think that it is only a matter of time that someone try to copy the current logo wrap. That's why I do think BBCE needs to stay a step ahead and use some sort of incandescent light with tracking serial # and logo. That stamp could be affixed to the outside of the wrap so if someone ripped the box open and searched the packs they might be able to wrap it back in the counterfeit BBCE wrap--but would not have the stamp to affix to the outside of the new wrap. It cannot be that expensive and would mean the crooks would have another hurdle to climb.
What do you think Steve? Anything on the horizon? >>
I do recall that Steve had mentioned the possibility of using a hologram on the outside of the wrap at some point, but can't recall the details. The first generation BBCE boxes I have in my collection all came straight from Steve, primarily via group rips, so I am comfortable keeping them wrapped as is, old-school style, lol...We've had wax case breaks for 1977, 1978 and 1980 Topps baseball over the years--I still have all 3 of those boxes, though only the most recently wrapped 77 box is marked FASC.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
JO-O-SE can you see
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
<< <i>I do think that it is only a matter of time that someone try to copy the current logo wrap. That's why I do think BBCE needs to stay a step ahead and use some sort of incandescent light with tracking serial # and logo. That stamp could be affixed to the outside of the wrap so if someone ripped the box open and searched the packs they might be able to wrap it back in the counterfeit BBCE wrap--but would not have the stamp to affix to the outside of the new wrap. It cannot be that expensive and would mean the crooks would have another hurdle to climb. >>
I AGREE with this statement 1,000%. In another thread the OP is stating he has potentially a 1979 Topps Baseball 2-box deal for $1,200 a box but thinks $2,000 gets it. If Steve so much peeks at the first pack and says: "Wrap It." It's a 2-dime box EACH! If someone were to create counterfeit BBCE wrap, this creates two problems. One, I see perfectly good 1981 Topps Football boxes in eBay's completed for $500-600 that now BBCE wrapped, and the boxes MAY be perfectly good boxes, are bringing $900 to $1,000 all day long. Last time I checked, that is a healthy margin.
And the other problem is the FlatFoot's Walter Payton rookie box? Now that had to suck. Spend $4-5K and everyone standing around asking, "Where's Walter?"
<< <i>I do think that it is only a matter of time that someone try to copy the current logo wrap. That's why I do think BBCE needs to stay a step ahead and use some sort of incandescent light with tracking serial # and logo. That stamp could be affixed to the outside of the wrap so if someone ripped the box open and searched the packs they might be able to wrap it back in the counterfeit BBCE wrap--but would not have the stamp to affix to the outside of the new wrap. It cannot be that expensive and would mean the crooks would have another hurdle to climb.
What do you think Steve? Anything on the horizon? >>
...and getting security/destructible decals...
<< <i>Folks please save your money and do not waste it on this so called fad of wrapped/certified boxes! This is a fad that will soon pass, trust what I am saying! >>
I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but something better will need to arrive in order for it to go away. At the moment this is the only way to get 36 packs authenticatedin one shot. For whatever it's flaws are, it's still light years better than taking your chances on ebay and hoping for the best. Getting burned once or twice there is more expensive than the wrapped up premium.
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<< <i>Folks please save your money and do not waste it on this so called fad of wrapped/certified boxes! This is a fad that will soon pass, trust what I am saying! >>
I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but something better will need to arrive in order for it to go away. At the moment this is the only way to get 36 packs authenticatedin one shot. For whatever it's flaws are, it's still light years better than taking your chances on ebay and hoping for the best. Getting burned once or twice there is more expensive than the wrapped up premium. >>
BigD, this is the same guy who wants to know if it's a good idea to spend thousands on modern auto cards, LOL!!
Oh wait, edit to add: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Folks please save your money and do not waste it on this so called fad of wrapped/certified boxes! This is a fad that will soon pass, trust what I am saying! >>
I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but something better will need to arrive in order for it to go away. At the moment this is the only way to get 36 packs authenticatedin one shot. For whatever it's flaws are, it's still light years better than taking your chances on ebay and hoping for the best. Getting burned once or twice there is more expensive than the wrapped up premium. >>
This is the same guy who wants to know if it's a good idea to spend thousands on modern auto cards, LOL!! >>
The same guy who paid $18,500 for a Pujols.
<< <i>Someone paid $18,500 for a Pujols card??? >>
Thread
I don't recall if he admits what he paid but that is what he paid.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Also once Pujols hits homerun #600 this card will be untouchable! With only 500 cards ever produced there are only 6 PSA 10's in circulation! How many 89 UD Griffeys were made? How many 52 Topps Mantles were made? What about how many Jordan rookies were made? This card will go down in history as the most limited edition card of a hof shoe in! Go Pujols! #5 >>
I guess we can't argue with that "logic..."
<< <i>Also once Pujols hits homerun #600 this card will be untouchable! With only 500 cards ever produced there are only 6 PSA 10's in circulation! How many 89 UD Griffeys were made? How many 52 Topps Mantles were made? What about how many Jordan rookies were made? This card will go down in history as the most limited edition card of a hof shoe in! Go Pujols! #5 >>
How many of these Albert Pujols cards were loaded onto a garbage boat and dumped into the atlantic?
<< <i>Also once Pujols hits homerun #600 this card will be untouchable! With only 500 cards ever produced there are only 6 PSA 10's in circulation! How many 89 UD Griffeys were made? How many 52 Topps Mantles were made? What about how many Jordan rookies were made? This card will go down in history as the most limited edition card of a hof shoe in! Go Pujols! #5 >>
Good luck with the investment.
I am at a loss for words with your comparison to a 1952 Topps Mickey Mantle. These two cards can't be mentioned in the same sentence for baseball cards.
<< <i>How many limited Mantles are there? Is there an autograph? Is it limited to 500? Answer is NO >>
Dude come on. You can't really think a Pujols rookie is in the same league as a Mantle.
<< <i>If Mantle played for any team other than New York his card would be worth much much less! >>
I can buy that.
<< <i>Albert Pujols is by far a better player than Mantle! If Mantle played for any team other than New York his card would be worth much much less! >>
I think there are plenty who would dispute the idea that he is better then Mantle.
That being said when you are comparing baseball cards I just don't think they belong in the same sentence. There is just something so special about the 1952 Topps Mantle.
Trying to compare a modern card like this to it seems to me like such a poor comparison.
<< <i>Reminds me of the first few words to the Star Spangled Banner:
JO-O-SE can you see >>
I love your sense of humor...
<< <i>Back to his original comment about wrapped boxes. I collect 80s boxes and packs and while I'm not Steve I have enough experience to confidently buy and check my own packs. I buy from ebay and then if I want to flip I have it wrapped. Only to make more $. There is plenty of legit product on the bay that unless it's something that I can only find wrapped, I will gladly buy "raw" and evaluate my purchase once in hand. >>
Are you having these wrapped by BBCX?
Collectibles in most cases are driven by likability and Pujols is not in the same league.
<< <i>There is a much larger audience that is interested in early Mantle cards vs. an on purpose extremely limited print run Pujols.
Collectibles in most cases are driven by likability and Pujols is not in the same league. >>
This is logic. Just in case anyone was wondering...
There's no denying Pujols' talent. There is a far cry from the interest in his cards versus that of Mantle, however... He's even distant to the likes of Clemente, Koufax and many other stars from yesteryear. 20 years from now, the likes of Trout and others will dwarf Pujols' popularity... The hobby is fickle. Strasburg and Harper were can't misses and sound investments and many championed their incredible upside.
Anyway, how about wrapping the Pujols PSA 10 in BBCE shrink-wrap?
Pujols is great. No question. Awesome. Insane stats. HOFer. But Mick was the right man with the right name and the right look at a time when America needed a hero, an icon. To reduce the Mantle-Pujols debate to mere stats and stage played on is just a little reductive. And I think the Pujols card is cool. Also, let's not lose sight of the manufactured rarity element at play with the Pujols, as opposed to the comparatively true scarcity of eye appealing 52 Mantles. That Mick is the standard bearer of the hobby.
I agree Mick would not be the icon if he were not on the NY Yanks stage, but that is moot. It happened. He was there at the right time and hit the WS HRs and won the triple crown. The coalescing of all that magic, even variables beyond his control, contributes to his mystique and charmed status to many. And though in that parallel irrelevant universe he might be worth less than he is, the key card of a nasty player from a watershed OLD set is still something special. Even with that said, we are talking about a switch hitter, a triple crown winner. And his humility toward the end of his life, and how that affected a generation, and humanized an icon-- these are intangible aspects that cannot simply be shelved in favor of stats and manufactured card rarity.
End of day, the bet I'd take is that you can find one of those Pujols way faster than you can find a #311 like this...
Instagram: mattyc_collection
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<< <i>If Mantle played for any team other than New York his card would be worth much much less! >>
I can buy that. >>
I think what you mean is, "I can see how you might think that..." LOL!!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Back to his original comment about wrapped boxes. I collect 80s boxes and packs and while I'm not Steve I have enough experience to confidently buy and check my own packs. I buy from ebay and then if I want to flip I have it wrapped. Only to make more $. There is plenty of legit product on the bay that unless it's something that I can only find wrapped, I will gladly buy "raw" and evaluate my purchase once in hand. >>
I can't speak to the % of legit unopened product on ebay from the 80s, but the majority of raw vintage wax from the 70s on ebay is resealed.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Instagram: mattyc_collection
<< <i>I do think that it is only a matter of time that someone try to copy the current logo wrap. That's why I do think BBCE needs to stay a step ahead and use some sort of incandescent light with tracking serial # and logo. >>
Spot on, Manny. Steve needs to stay ahead of the low lifes who have already attempted to cash in on the BBCE premium. They need to protect their brand and the investment others have made in buying BBCE wrapped product.
<< <i>Folks please save your money and do not waste it on this so called fad of wrapped/certified boxes! This is a fad that will soon pass, trust what I am saying! >>
Says the guy spending thousands speculating on high end rookies of players that are early on in their careers. I trust your judgment about as much as you trust Panini stated print runs.
<< <i>Ok, so what's your point with a $18.5k PSA 10 Pujols? Better than spending $29,500 for a so call sealed 1986/87 Fleer Basketball wax box! Even if you bought two of those boxes the chance of pulling out a PSA 10 Jordan is slim to none!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
As has already been discussed countless times, but you fail to consider, not everyone collects unopened product with the intent to rip and grade the contents.
<< <i>Also once Pujols hits homerun #600 this card will be untouchable! >>
<< <i>The 2001 Albert Pujols Bowman Chrome Refractor RC AUTO /500 card is the "Mantle" card of this decade >>
Really? You don't think that assumption has already been largely priced into the card? If you honestly believe this, why did you almost immediately try to sell the card after you overpaid for it?
<< <i>The point I am trying to make here is that having someone wrap a box for you should not make that box worth 5 times the amount of a similar box that is not wrapped. The wrapping of these boxes are a waste of money! If you want a good quality 86 Jordan rookie you could by two PSA 10's depending on the day of the week vs a wrapped 86 Fleer box and have around $10,000 to buy another or take one hell of a nice vacation! >>
So paying a premium for BBCE's expert opinion and wrap = stupid... whereas paying a premium for PSA's expert opinion and case = brilliant? Enta munafiq.
<< <i>
That's a beautiful card, Matty, is it yours?
Snorto~
<< <i>That Mantle card is very, very nice, however you can find Mantles on eBay and at auctions all day long. How many Pujols Bowmans 10's do you see? Not many, in fact the recently added Pujols that was listed on eBay may be added into my collection. >>
I came into this thread thinking I would learn something about BBCE POP Reports on unopened material......I quickly found out it was a knife fight to the bitter death.
I enjoy knife fights.....here are my 2 cents:
I have been collecting since 1976 and one thing I learned quick = 52 Mantle is the top of the top for post-war cards and definitely in the top 5 of the entire hobby all time.
To this day, that simple fact I learned in 1976 remains true and has never been tested.
Do you really think that the Pujols card is going to become the most iconic card of the post-war hobby? We are not talking about the 51 Bowman, or 56 Topps or 69 White Letter variety.....we are talking about a 52 Topps Mantle = the grand-poobah-holy-grail-type-stuff of card collecting.
Your Pujols, while immaculate and definitely a sought after card, won't even hold its value over the short term, let alone the long term. Meanwhile, the 52 Mantle just keeps chugging along.
Its a simple lesson of supply and demand which you are going to learn = there are more than 500 52 Mantles out there as compared to Pujols (greater supply), which is good because there are a whole lot more collectors searching for the holy grail as compared to those searching for Pujols (higher demand). Enjoy your stay on Pujols island - I wish you luck. Hopefully, you will run into another believer but I tend to think you are going to be buried with that card.
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End of day, the bet I'd take is that you can find one of those Pujols way faster than you can find a #311 like this...
Tremendous card!!!
Jeff
Card Country
Graded stars 1950's-1980