De-Dollarization Accelerates - China/Russia Complete Currency Swap Agreement
ksammut
Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭
I know it is still a relatively small amount when it comes to the overall worldwide trade that takes place but it seems like we are seeing more and more movement away from the dollar taking place. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.
De-Dollarization Accelerates
De-Dollarization Accelerates
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Knowledge is the enemy of fear
While it has certainly been a stabilizing force to have the dollar play this international role, it has been destructively seductive to the U.S. It has allowed us singularly powerful impact on countries whom we have felt cause to punish, a capacity that understandably stirs worry and resentment even among those we haven't yet targeted. It has also allowed us to sustain our standard of living beyond our means for years at the expense of others, who otherwise would have much less motivation to support the dollar. It has enabled us to amass long term jeopardy that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to create.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
And the snowball continues to grow. Just the latest in a series of worldwide anti-petrodollar actions. The movement is picking up steam. A strong sign that our military backed foreign policy is weakening.
(Dave, you knew I couldn't stay out of this one)
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
In the term "petrodollar", it is not so much " dollar" as it is "petro" that is declining, as oil becomes relegated to 3rd world use .
And it is in the USA's best interest to remove the dollar as THE reserve currency, although you will never hear a politician state so.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>As the US dollar loses its status as a reserve currency in other countries, will that make inflation of the US dollar more likely? >>
Yes. Lots of dollars outside of the country. As they are needed there less they migrate home. One way they come home is to be dumped here by foreigners in exchange for assets such as US real estate (Wwalthy chinese have been doing this). All of those dollars outside the US are currently not fighting for US goods and services. When they do they will help drive prices up.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>As the US dollar loses its status as a reserve currency in other countries, will that make inflation of the US dollar more likely? >>
Yes. Lots of dollars outside of the country. As they are needed there less they migrate home. One way they come home is to be dumped here by foreigners in exchange for assets such as US real estate (Wwalthy chinese have been doing this). All of those dollars outside the US are currently not fighting for US goods and services. When they do they will help drive prices up. >>
There is probably a lot that could be written, but lets just suppose you are correct about dollars coming back into the States. Would they not also buy stocks? Seems real estate and stocks might be better investments than PMs.
What real estate would the foreigners buy? Would that not increase economic activity? Would that not bail out the banks and homeowners from underwater mortgages? Im trying to find a negative but having difficulty.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Oh, woe to "the economy" when all this spending occurs here
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Right, "they" will buy furniture and appliances, and windows and flooring, and lumber and concrete and paint and THEY will hire craftsmen and landscapers and pool guys.
Oh, woe to "the economy" when all this spending occurs here
I wouldn't expect them to feed the economy. Look for them to park it in whatever they think will grow. With the wealthy chinese, it's currently real estate investments.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>In a "worldwide economic slump" what is the role of gold? Are the Indians going yo buy more jewelry?, Americans, Europeans, Chinese? >>
Chinese woks???...
<< <i>
<< <i>In a "worldwide economic slump" what is the role of gold? Are the Indians going yo buy more jewelry?, Americans, Europeans, Chinese? >>
Chinese woks???... >>
If you are wok shopping go with a hammered wok, they have a rough surface that allows you to pull food part way up the side when its done and park it there so the oil can drain off.
my wok is iron , not gold but the same principal should apply, gotta watch those calories
<< <i>The United States still is the king when it comes to the dollar. Can't see anything changing that near term. >>
Here's a near term game changer for ya:
And the demise of the petrodollar's reserve currency status continues
". . .the deal will allow direct business between the Canadian dollar and the Chinese yuan, cutting out the middle man — in most cases, the U.S. dollar. Canadian exporters forced to use the American currency to do business in China are faced with higher currency exchange costs and longer waits to close deals."
Appears a strong US dollar policy, like economic sanctions, comes at a price: foreign demand for dollars.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Killing the Dollar: G20 & IMF Push for Global Fed, Global Currency
Written by William F. Jasper
While headline stories about averting the dangers of an international “currency war” dominated news coverage of the recently concluded G20 meeting in Moscow, the real unreported story is that the global gathering of central bankers and finance ministers is pushing forward with their plan for “supersizing” the International Monetary Fund. The end goal is to transform the IMF into a global Federal Reserve, with the ability to flood the world with huge new volumes of loans and currency. It would also wield vast financial regulatory powers.
////
Almost two years old so I wonder how this "supersizing" is working out for them. Plus, isn't 2015 the year the IMF determines the balance or percentage in the basket of currencies? I remember that it's done every five years.
What we might see is a bifurcation with the "less friendly" countries going off the reservation with perhaps the OPEC members trading both ways when it suits them. Will it work? Dunno, but it absolutely will weaken the USD though maybe not nearly as much as the confederates hope. I just don't see meaningful run at the $.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Dollar no more >>
Nice picture created by people whose last names end with a V. And given ZH backing of Putins actions in Ukraine, and implication of the US in the assassination in Moscow confirms ZH is simply a propaganda vehicle for Russia.
I feel deep sympathy for anyone who believes in the nonsense they distribute. Lost souls.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Explain the removal of defensive missiles from Poland, Victoria Nuland's comments about the EU, how the US became involved after the Ukrainian elections and normalization of relations with Cuba and Iran. It seems to me that the Obama administration is as much a problem as Putin.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I like the idea of developing Cuba into a resort nation to go play in. Iran deal stinks 100% >>
We were debating jetting over to Cuba last month when we were in Nassau. Hindsight says we should have done that. I do like me some habanas......
The Monte Cristo #2s are the bomb BTW.
<< <i>Nice picture created by people whose last names end with a V. And given ZH backing of Putins actions in Ukraine, and implication of the US in the assassination in Moscow confirms ZH is simply a propaganda vehicle for Russia. >>
Good point. Probably not quite as reliable as the typical white Irish male on CNBC. But then again, not everyone is quite as "selective" as you appear to be. You really need to get over that "anyone who doesn't agree with me is aiding and abetting the enemy" mindset. McCarthyism is so old school.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Gold
Silver
Rubles
Yuan
Euros
CA dollars
AUS dollars
Rupees
Real
Please tell us how it's worked out for you
Thank you in advance for entertaining posts.
<< <i>This thread started almost one year ago. For those people who bought:
Gold
Silver
Rubles
Yuan
Euros
CA dollars
AUS dollars
Rupees
Real
Please tell us how it's worked out for you
Thank you in advance for entertaining posts. >>
Shipped all the PMs to my brother in Greece, my cousin in Argentina, my other cousin in Zimbabwe and my wife's uncle in the Ukraine who all sold it. We made a killing. Did save a bit for when our turn comes. Gave the Yuan to my daughter in Atlanta, here new Chinese landlord is happy to take them.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>This thread started almost one year ago. For those people who bought:
Gold
Silver
Rubles
Yuan
Euros
CA dollars
AUS dollars
Rupees
Real
Please tell us how it's worked out for you
Thank you in advance for entertaining posts. >>
Gold - got that hockey puck 50 peso I always wanted, pirate talking-with-the-ladies value has increased
Silver - some things here and there, pirate talking-with-the-ladies value has increased
Seems ok to me.
Darn right im going to be selective. He who likes everything likes nothing.
Thats why I prefer my "white Irish" business reporters to be of the female variety such as the lovely lass Vonnie Quinn on Bloomberg. You can see her on Bloomberg TV in the mornings.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Darn right im going to be selective. He who likes everything likes nothing.
Thats why I prefer my "white Irish" business reporters to be of the female variety such as the lovely lass Vonnie Quinn on Bloomberg. You can see her on Bloomberg TV in the mornings.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Nice picture created by people whose last names end with a V. And given ZH backing of Putins actions in Ukraine, and implication of the US in the assassination in Moscow confirms ZH is simply a propaganda vehicle for Russia.
Explain the removal of defensive missiles from Poland, Victoria Nuland's comments about the EU, how the US became involved after the Ukrainian elections and normalization of relations with Cuba and Iran. It seems to me that the Obama administration is as much a problem as Putin. >>
So explain why you place credence in ZH and not the Obama administration as you equate the two?
Im really amazed that you dont see the connection between ZH and Russia.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
There's no equating the two. Maybe you equate them, but I don't. Their following has morphed into a crowd of juveniles lately, so I take it all with a grain of salt.
Im really amazed that you dont see the connection between ZH and Russia.
Maybe we didn't grow up the same way, but I've always recognized that just about everything you see or hear in the mass media cannot be trusted. I'm a product of the TV Generation. We learned that at an early age. That includes Fox News and ZeroHedge, but sadly - the rest of them are even worse.
Maybe I'm just getting old & cranky.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Im really amazed that you dont see the connection between ZH and Russia. >>
would it matter if a "lovely lass" was the one not selling the Washington rhetoric on Russia? I prefer to judge my news sources by the proven worthiness of what they report. ZH is reliable and more importantly "not under the influence."
Old saying in the news business: "Freedom of the Press belongs to those that own one." Corporate America controls your mainstream news as both owners and as the source of advertising revenue. Subscriptions do not pay the bills. Their independence is a successful fraud. Investigative journalism is not what it once was.
The much lower overhead of on-line reporting is a god-send for truth seekers. As with anything bad always comes with the good. One who cannot identify what type a snake in finds safety if considering them all poisonous.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Maybe after Baley rejoins the forum with his brilliant diversification into Au$ and Ca$ we can hear from Operation Butta
As to why he's trying to sell Frankie's at 30x in BST??? Can you say "buried"?
Id luv to hear the rich stories about how the dolla died.
Let me splain
1. USA killed Russia.
2. Next we buried Europe.
3. In the process of putting China in it's place.
Who's your daddy? Washington DC.
Luv to hear the stories of long commodities and short dollars from the last year or two.
Crickets.
All I can say is "Wow", and walk away shaking my head.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
So explain why you place credence in ZH and not the Obama administration as you equate the two?
There's no equating the two. Maybe you equate them, but I don't
I didn't make the comparison, you did. But enough of that.
I think it's pretty obvious that while I criticize ZH I have never touted CNBC.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
You are mistaken. Otherwise, please show me where I've equated ZeroHedge with the Obama Administration. You aren't making sense.
I stopped watching CNBC about 5 years ago. I stopped watching ABC, NBC, CBS 15 years ago, maybe 20. I stopped watching Fox 2 years ago. There's truly nothing on TV, except local.
Let me splain
1. USA killed Russia.
2. Next we buried Europe.
3. In the process of putting China in it's place.
Who's your daddy? Washington DC.
4. Please explain the Iran "deal". We sure showed them, eh? Maybe now they'll stop funding proxy wars against the West.
Russia is still Russia.
Europe buried Europe. They used to be our allies. We sure took care of that.
China is still China.
I knew it would happen.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I'm still waiting.
Maybe after Baley rejoins the forum with his brilliant diversification into Au$ and Ca$ we can hear from Operation Butta
As to why he's trying to sell Frankie's at 30x in BST??? Can you say "buried"?
Id luv to hear the rich stories about how the dolla died.
Let me splain
1. USA killed Russia.
2. Next we buried Europe.
3. In the process of putting China in it's place.
Who's your daddy? Washington DC.
Luv to hear the stories of long commodities and short dollars from the last year or two.
Crickets. >>
Those are Frankie's ? Hmm thought they were st g's... Lol...
<< <i>Id luv to hear the rich stories about how the dolla died. >>
You're living them. You'll get reminded by tomorrow's history books.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
And given ZH backing of Putins actions in Ukraine, and implication of the US in the assassination in Moscow confirms ZH is simply a propaganda vehicle for Russia.
I haven't commented on that or drawn any conclusions on ZH's reporting of Putin's actions in Ukraine or any implication of the US in the assassination. Where are you divining this from?
Although I will make an observation. There was an election in Ukraine. The US-backed candidate didn't win. Then there was an overthrow of the elected government. Chances are, it's as bad over there as our own election process is here. Who knows if it was rigged? Do you? I don't. What I do know is that a US-backed government is now in place. I also know that Victoria Nuland made and unsavory comment about the EU. It's hard to know whose side the US government is on. Except for Joe Biden's kid, who got on the board of the gas company in Ukraine. I know that much. You tell me how that advances our cause of freedom and democracy. Joe Biden's kid! Good grief!!
I don't recall even commenting on the political assassinations in Moscow. I know that the head of Vitol was also assassinated in Moscow. I know that Putin jails anyone who doesn't play ball with him. I have reason to believe that Putin pollonium'd one of his detractors and main political adversaries. If ZH is defending Putin, please make a direct reference to it. I haven't seen it. Actually, those stories I mention were all reported negatively, on ZeroHedge.
Gimme a break, cohodk. ZH's criticism's of US policy that is being mangled by Obama doesn't equate to ZH backing anything about Putin. And my agreeing with ZH on many issues doesn't equate to being spoon fed Putin-style propaganda. You seem to assume that a lot of people are stupid, which is a mistake on your part. I understand the relationship between military projection and currency valuation. I think that you do as well. I think we're making too many enemies and pi**ing all over our friends. I think we're screwing up as a nation, in numerous ways. Just because most other nations are screwing up even worse - doesn't make us better or more viable. You're entitled to your opinion too. Carry on.
I knew it would happen.
Crickets?
Hey Baley, tell us about your AU and CA diversification
I need to learn from a pro. How to become a millionaire in the commodities game? Start with two million.
<< <i>
<< <i>Id luv to hear the rich stories about how the dolla died. >>
You're living them. You'll get reminded by tomorrow's history books. >>
OK Mr. Smarty Pants,
Please enlighten us plebes exactly what will be taking it's place.
Cause there ain't nuttin I can see.
Crickets?
AGAIN?
Crickets?
No, Gold Spouses this time around.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>OK Mr. Smarty Pants,
Please enlighten us plebes exactly what will be taking it's place.
Cause there ain't nuttin I can see. >>
Weaker dollars at best. It's the American way for the last 100 years.
Unless of course "this time it's different."
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
BTW, in case you haven't noticed ...which currency would you use other than the dollar? The dollar has just walked away from other major currencies...have you been paying attention?
I'm not talking about over the last hundred years
Because I can't think of any currency EXCEPT the dollar that
STILL EXISTS TO COMPARE IT TO. Hey compare it to peso, sterling, ruble, yen.
If the FED ever decides to raise rates, you can bet that the dollar will strengthen further.
You SIR are living in denial.
In the real world the last couple of years the USD has literally clubbed major currencies to death.
Paper gold $900 and paper silver $12.50...90% probability within 24 months.
Now, just one question - do you think the Fed is going to be forced into more QE as the unfunded liabilities come due?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>In the real world the last couple of years the USD has literally clubbed major currencies to death. >>
In reality, the dollar index only tells us that these other currencies are doing a worse job of currency management. And if you look at the long term chart, "king of the hill" is a constantly changing title. The title itself is misleading in that it doesn't really tout the success of a currency, it reveals the weaknesses of the index's competitors. This is why its only meaningful use is in foreign currency trading. In reality a strong dollar index has clubbed US exports and US manufacturing jobs because it make US products more expensive to outsiders and it results in cheaper imports that provide an even bigger clubbing of US exports and US jobs.
Take the stocks of seven companies that you know are being mismanaged or run into the ground. Compare them to each other. Determine which is the one dog you'd currently take over the others. This is what the dollar index is designed to do for currency traders who trade in seven specific currencies (US dollar, euro, yen, pound sterling, Canadian dollar. Swedish krona and Swiss franc).
This is important, pay close attention: The dollar index is a measure of the value of the US dollar relative to a basket of foreign currencies.
We now know that currencies throughout the world are being grossly mismanaged and overprinted. The dollar index, looking at the fiat trash pile, is telling us only that is better to hold dollars at the moment than the other currencies. It says nothing of the success of US dollar managers other than they are currently doing a less worse job than the managers of the other currencies. Saying that the dollar currently looks more "promising" than the euro or the yen is not much of an accomplishment. If nothing else its false sense of security is clearly demonstrated by those (especially here) who continue to believe its recent improvement is a sure sign of economic improvement. It is not. It is a sign of growing economic weakness and even worse currency management elsewhere in the world. This compares to believing your lifestyle is improving only because you can see the lifestyle of others getting worse.
Here's a 25 yr. chart of the index. It clearly demonstrates (in 2008) what mismanagement does to one of the seven index "basket" currencies. It made the other currencies look strong only for us to discover that they are now very weak. It also indicates the index is useless in determining future performance and is only helpful to currency traders in determining which currency is best to be holding at the moment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Derryb with an excellent writeup on the USDX currency basket. I can only add a simplistic picture of that basket. Imagine 7 sky divers w/o parachutes just jumped out of an airplane at 10,000 ft. over the rocky mountains. Each sky diver is symbolic of one of those 7 currencies. At 5,000 ft the guy holding USDollars has not fallen as far as the other 6. He's in the strongest position. If the USDX guy hits the ground last does he "win." After hitting the ground is there a prize to collect? How does he collect it considering his condition? The end result is always the same as recorded history has proven over and over again....only the timing varies.
Overlooked by most, there is a one important message it sends: Given the inverse relationship of gold to the dollar index it is telling us that Gold in fact is money and that it does in fact compete with the other currencies, including the US dollar.
Knowing that gold cannot be printed like its "competitors" who do you think the ultimate "king of the hill" will be?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey