<< <i>jmski52, even if you own your own business, health is something one can never predict, especially the older we get. >>
Same sucker mentality that was used to coerce the young invincibles to sign up for the ACA. Never know when you may twist an ankle playing basketball, you know.
Our national religion in America is now healthcare. Bow to the man in the white vestments and tithe 20% of your income whether you are well or ill.
I imagine you'll sign up for Medicare and Social Security, like everybody else, forcing me and others to pay for YOUR benefits.
Oh, I get it. I'm supposed to pay in and never sign up for any benefits. Is that your take?
As for the high volatility of longer term debt, the whole point in locking yourself up is because it is volatile. And rates 3-5 years from now could double or triple. If that were to occur, the government would have to pay MUCH higher interest than they could have. The whole point of doing what they're doing is precisely because the future ISN'T predictable. It isn't my "hope".
I invite you and bidask to follow your own strategy. Your hope is that when rates go up, there won't be an exodus out of bonds.
It's simple logic. Your logic is something completely contradictory to itself. You make it sound like the government is choosing between taking their own savings or surpluses and retiring debt, or choosing to borrow again. It's NOT a choice they have.
Come again? If that's not their choice then it's already game over. If you don't believe that there is no repercussion from chronic bad management, then you're the one living in fantasy land, not me. Next, you'll be calling me unpatriotic for not plowing everything I own into gov.com bonds.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Which is precisely wow the industry needs a complete overhaul, unless your point is that the healthcare industry shouldn't exist at all and if people get sick or diseased, then so be it. >>
Maybe the VA can be put in charge of the overhaul....or how about the IRS......maybe the NSA as they already have all the records.
Baseball, who in Washington do you trust to fix this mess? Seriously, name names.
<< <i>but the path we are on now is basically a WAY overpriced, WAY inefficient, COMPLETE MESS. >>
We are in agreement on that.
Before Medicare/caid and widespread private health insurance, a doctor or hospital could only reap windfalls from the seriously ill. That was not good enough of course. Why take 20% from the sick when you can take 20% from everyone. Sadly our civil servants are puppets of the AMA and insurance industry and that is why all government health plans need to be dismantled.
Let charities cover the truly needy and maybe, just maybe folks will start taking better care of themselves.
<< <i>"Let charities cover the truly needy and maybe, just maybe folks will start taking better care of themselves. "
Hey, great! Using the type of grossly jaded chacacterizations you spew, we can thus do away with all SSI Freeloaders sucking off our tax dollars! >>
Actually they are sucking off of their own contributions and the contributions of younger workers paying into the ponzi system. Not quite the definition of a freeloader, yet. As long as there are government programs, whether funded by the taxpayer or the receipient, folks will let those programs provide for the needs of others. This is why we no longer see families taking care of their own like they used to.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
And then there are the cats who have simply quit paying. While you are worried about forcing someone to pay, and another is worried about being forced to pay, there's a whole slew over here to the side that scam both of you.
<< <i>Which is precisely wow the industry needs a complete overhaul, unless your point is that the healthcare industry shouldn't exist at all and if people get sick or diseased, then so be it. >>
Maybe the VA can be put in charge of the overhaul....or how about the IRS......maybe the NSA as they already have all the records.
Baseball, who in Washington do you trust to fix this mess? Seriously, name names. >>
It's not even a question of who, it's the system itself. I've had to "sign" up for medical insurance at least 20 times in the last 15 years. I must be in Blue Cross' database 5-6 different ways. Who knows why they can't track one simple SS#. You go to any provider, first thing you have to do is fill out forms. And more and more forms. And they if you get referred elsewhere, rinse and repeat. My old man was in an auto accident a few years back (not his fault), spent 6 hours in the ER, filled out NUMEROUS forms, took some tests, 4-5 hours of waiting, only to get a bill for $72K and sent home without even an aspirin. Healthcare in private sector IS NOT working.
Imagine having all your medical history under one database. NEVER having to fill out your allergies, or you SS# to a million different places, or your insurance information, etc. etc. All you do, when you need services, is go in and wait (of course) and give them your card or fingerprint. NEVER having to pay premiums. NEVER a copay. YOU complain about the 20%+ of the economy more than anyone. I couldn't agree with you more. It by no means would be some overnight change and would take years to work thru even most of the issues but the path we are on now is basically a WAY overpriced, WAY inefficient, COMPLETE MESS. I >>
Please inform us as to how the $72,000 bill would be paid and ultimately by whom.
Healthcare data is not static. Forms will have to be filled out to document changes in health status, no?
Please do not get me started on a country that pays astronomically more for treatment of PREVENTABLE AND SUBSIDIZED conditions such as morbid obesity, than prevention!
Which is now classified as a disease!! Give me a break!!
If you cannot comprehend that, then I have wasted your time and mine.
1+1=5 in this country today in "healthcare". Take a picture of a group of people today and look at it.
A picture is worth a thousand words and portrays millions to be spent in "healthcare".
Prevention, with strings attached could change the entire landscape, but that will not happen.
You know that is true, we are too late in the game for that.
Healthcare is Financialized like everything else. Those who shuffle money see every sick or overweight american as a cow to be milked.
They produce nothing of value , they shuffle papers around , delay care , waste resources and rake off more money than the doctors that actually care for people.
They are paid to impede every process in our daily life.
<< <i>"Let charities cover the truly needy and maybe, just maybe folks will start taking better care of themselves. "
Hey, great! Using the type of grossly jaded chacacterizations you spew, we can thus do away with all SSI Freeloaders sucking off our tax dollars! >>
Good idea. SSI is another shackle around the ankle of young folks starting out in the world. We have really left them a costly and unmanageable legacy.
I'm not wasting my time on a debate, because it's truly not worth it. I'm just going to state the obvious.
My old man was in an auto accident a few years back (not his fault), spent 6 hours in the ER, filled out NUMEROUS forms, took some tests, 4-5 hours of waiting, only to get a bill for $72K and sent home without even an aspirin.
At the risk of being called more names, I'm simply going to point out that if this scenario ever happened, it would be a fine lawsuit for just about any ambulance chaser. There's no way a hospital would bill anyone $72,000 for a 6 hour ER visit, of which 4-5 hours involved filling out forms, and then release him with out any treatment whatsoever. Absolutely Ludicrous.
And then, there's this:
Imagine having all your medical history under one database. NEVER having to fill out your allergies, or you SS# to a million different places, or your insurance information, etc. etc. All you do, when you need services, is go in and wait (of course) and give them your card or fingerprint. NEVER having to pay premiums. NEVER a copay. YOU complain about the 20%+ of the economy more than anyone. I couldn't agree with you more. It by no means would be some overnight change and would take years to work thru even most of the issues but the path we are on now is basically a WAY overpriced, WAY inefficient, COMPLETE MESS.
Sounds like Utopia to me! Nobody pays and everything is excellent! Be careful what you wish for. If you don't see any pitfalls or problems with this wonderful design, nobody can help you.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>The $72K bill would never exist in a universal healthcare world. There would be no "bills". >>
Yep all free. at least for the 50% that pay no taxes.
A friend has an acute eye problem. VA says that they can see him in a month. Private doctor made same day appointment. Is that the kind of care that you want, baseball?
<< <i>I'm not wasting my time on a debate, because it's truly not worth it. I'm just going to state the obvious.
My old man was in an auto accident a few years back (not his fault), spent 6 hours in the ER, filled out NUMEROUS forms, took some tests, 4-5 hours of waiting, only to get a bill for $72K and sent home without even an aspirin.
At the risk of being called more names, I'm simply going to point out that if this scenario ever happened, it would be a fine lawsuit for just about any ambulance chaser. There's no way a hospital would bill anyone $72,000 for a 6 hour ER visit, of which 4-5 hours involved filling out forms, and then release him with out any treatment whatsoever. Absolutely Ludicrous. >>
did the taxpayer pay this guys bill? or did he pay it?... or he hired a lawyer and paid him so he wouldnt have to pay the bill?...
<< <i>The $72K bill would never exist in a universal healthcare world. There would be no "bills". >>
Yep all free. at least for the 50% that pay no taxes.
A friend has an acute eye problem. VA says that they can see him in a month. Private doctor made same day appointment. Is that the kind of care that you want, baseball? >>
Exactly what easily can occur! Watch what you wish for. OMG! I agree with Mark on something!!!
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did the taxpayer pay this guys bill? or did he pay it?... or he hired a lawyer and paid him so he wouldnt have to pay the bill?...
It was paid thru Medicare/auto insurance/Medicare supplemental and I'm not sure what all.
Yes, the alleged $72,000 bill was paid by a combination of the terrible private system and the taxpayer funded one, but the ambulance chaser didn't itemize the payouts so it's of no consequence?
I'm looking at the bill right in front of me. It's exactly for $72,313 from the Regional Medical Center of San Jose.
And the bill was for taking up space in the emergency room, involving the staff with paperwork, and an exam that revealed no need for treatment, and not even an admission?
At the risk of being repetitive, there's no way a hospital would bill anyone $72,000 for a 6 hour ER visit, of which 4-5 hours involved filling out forms, and then release him with out any treatment whatsoever.
Unless there's something else going on here that wasn't mentioned. You don't get released without treatment and then get billed for $72,000. There's more to the story, but it doesn't fit with the idea of socialized medicine, so don't expect to get the real story here.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
No one said it was free, so I'm not sure where you're coming from with that statement.
And I quote -
"All you do, when you need services, is go in and wait (of course) and give them your card or fingerprint. NEVER having to pay premiums. NEVER a copay."
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Why would I make that up? Define "treatment". There was ZERO surgical procedure. There were various tests performed. Questions asked (same ones multiple times). Forms scribbled on. Who could say how much of it was necessary or not. I was personally with him the ENTIRE time except for a couple of instances where they wheeled him off for CT scans or what not. It happened exactly as I stated without any exaggeration. You can choose to not believe it because "it doesn't fit with the idea" that allows for you to complain about it, which I know you love to do, but there's ZERO doubt factually that it happened exactly as I stated.
The worst part of it is that the first time we got wind of the bill was EIGHT months later when they sent a threatening payment letter. My mom is a total paranoid person when it comes to bills and if it came, she definitely would have saw it. Even on the crazy chance that the first invoice supposedly might have gotten lost in the mail, you'd think subsequent statements would have been sent in between such a lengthy period of time. But no. I had zero experience dealing with auto accidents and was trying to work (in a non litigious manner) with the opposing auto insurance company, who accepted liability for the accident almost immediately. However, I had no idea that you pretty much HAVE to have a lawyer in such situations or they don't even bother working with you. After receiving their demand letter and the invoice (8 months later), I finally contact an attorney who started the multi-year process of resolving the entire ordeal. The whole process is an inefficient completely wasteful joke the way it works today.
Now see, I understand. I'm sorry for what you, and your folks went through. It's a rotten situation and I hope it gets resolved from here on out. But there was more to it than being kicked out without so much as an aspirin.
Unfortunately, there's nothing that leads me to believe that the process or the treatment would have been any better or less expensive with the abortion of a "healthcare system" being controlled by gov.com, i.e. the post office, the license bureau, the IRS et al. You don't know. You just don't.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Sometimes no treatment is the best treatment. Seems your dad should feel lucky he was not killed or disabled. >>
His back was severely injured and he couldn't walk for two weeks so I certainly wouldn't agree that "no treatment is the best treatment." His back is still bothering him so I'm not sure he should feel that "lucky" for an accident that was not his doing. >>
You are fortunate to have not suffered the results of a family member being killed or disabled by another driver. What magic wand do you think was withheld that could have resulted in a better outcome for your dad's bad back? Do you feel like some treatment was withheld? You don't agree that no treatment was the best treatment so what should have been done? Did you Google it?
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I began to change my tune after working for drug companies and getting a sense of how hospitals work, the FDA, insurance companies. It's a complete disaster sucking ALL of us dry just to push paper back and forth.
Consider that much (if not all) of that paper pushing and cost runup was caused by government involvement in the first place. Just consider it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i> But about 10 years or so ago, I began to change my tune after working for drug companies and getting a sense of how hospitals work, the FDA, insurance companies. >>
Care to share some of the tactics used by the drug manufacturers? The payoffs to doctors would be a good start!
There is no basis for believing that something nefarious or stupid which happens in the private marketplace won't happen to a larger degree in a government-run system. We already have too many examples of what happens when the government gets involved.
The best answer is competition across state lines for insurance and between healthcare providers.
Unfortunately, government has been pretty effective in eliminating competition due to the influence of big money. Whether its source is big corporations, big unions, or big foreign interests - bonafide competition hasn't been government policy since the breakup of AT&T.
There's nothing good about consolidation that eliminates competition.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>There's nothing good about consolidation that eliminates competition. >>
Very true and this disservice is just as insidious at the local level. Tax breaks and taxpayer investment make it nearly impossible for the smaller competitor to survive, let alone prosper.
Tesla who is a subsidy sucking monster is now demanding that the home state for their new batter plant kick in 10% of the cost. More like extortion than best business practices.
The Schmuck politicians go along with the scam in the name of job creation. That and the inevitable golden honorarium for a short speech and a large paycheck.
Treasuries trade on session highs with the 10y -1bp @ 2.403% Germany's 10y briefly pressed below 1.00% for the first time ever, currently -2bps @ 1.010% France's 10y is off -3bps @ 1.400%, a record low Spain's 10y is lower by -8bps @ 2.515% Australia's 10y slid -5bps to 3.395%
Treasuries trade on session highs with the 10y -1bp @ 2.403% Germany's 10y briefly pressed below 1.00% for the first time ever, currently -2bps @ 1.010% France's 10y is off -3bps @ 1.400%, a record low Spain's 10y is lower by -8bps @ 2.515% Australia's 10y slid -5bps to 3.395%
Sounds like a safe bet as they are only one drunken comrade away from having the fuel pipeline shut off. Maybe they can import Janet Yellen and declare deflation, even as nat gas prices triple.
Treasuries trade on session highs with the 10y -1bp @ 2.403% Germany's 10y briefly pressed below 1.00% for the first time ever, currently -2bps @ 1.010% France's 10y is off -3bps @ 1.400%, a record low Spain's 10y is lower by -8bps @ 2.515% Australia's 10y slid -5bps to 3.395%
Sounds like a safe bet as they are only one drunken comrade away from having the fuel pipeline shut off. Maybe they can import Janet Yellen and declare deflation, even as nat gas prices triple.
Globalization has really turned into a nightmare. >>
1. What natural resources does Japan have? Seems they've done OK for nearly a generation.
2. Sounds like a great opportunity for US gas producers and shipping companies.
3. A great chance the pipeline thru Turkey gets completed. Is that a risk Russia wants to take?
""""1. What natural resources does Japan have? Seems they've done OK for nearly a generation.
2. Sounds like a great opportunity for US gas producers and shipping companies.
3. A great chance the pipeline thru Turkey gets completed. Is that a risk Russia wants to take?""""
1. Japan is in terrible shape. Problem with a huge debt load, whether micro or macro is everything is fine until default occurs. Those that consider government paper to be the safest investment available, either end up with nothing or payment in hugely devalued currency.
2. Agree!
3. I am unable to figure out what Putin has on his mind. Despots often dispose of the well being of their citizenry in an effort to conquer the world, or at least the parts that they consider important. He has 80% support in Russia and is liable to continue to act in an aggressive manner.
Russia 10 year notes are now at a yield of 8.5% and he seemingly has not been deterred yet.
And all those "fundamentals" working against Japan yet they keep on keepin' on.
Imagine being an 62 year old economic savant in Japan in 1994. You see all the things happening that you state and expect the country to fall apart and everyone living in the street. Now you are 82, did you enjoy the last 20 years of your life?
But what the hell, let me put the rose colored glasses on and all is well.
what happens when you put down the newspaper, turn off the TV and computer and smartphone, and walk around the block?
talk to friends and neighbors and family? Is everyone miserable with the debt burden, and inflation woe, or is that just after they listen to you go on about it for a while?
Kidding!
but seriously, how's the quality of life in Japan? Folks hatin' it?
And all those "fundamentals" working against Japan yet they keep on keepin' on.
Imagine being an 62 year old economic savant in Japan in 1994. You see all the things happening that you state and expect the country to fall apart and everyone living in the street. Now you are 82, did you enjoy the last 20 years of your life?
see above. We make our own reality in our minds and in our immediate environment. Cassandra, chicken little, eeyore, that cartoon guy that said, "it'll never work!", were never very popular at parties
<< <i>And all those "fundamentals" working against Japan yet they keep on keepin' on.
Imagine being an 62 year old economic savant in Japan in 1994. You see all the things happening that you state and expect the country to fall apart and everyone living in the street. Now you are 82, did you enjoy the last 20 years of your life? >>
Kind of like the 400 pound man that keeps eating hamburgers and pizza and fries. Everyone expects him to drop dead, but he doesn't he keeps on smiling as he continues his life of gluttony.
Economic laws are absolute though and can seemingly be stretched or ignored for a while, but eventually wield the ultimate decision.
Japan has been on an aggressive monetary expansion program for a year and a half. They have also increased the consumption tax considerably.
Tax hikes are never fun or pretty, but they generally raise revenue if not too shocking or economy numbing. Consumers will be able to purchase less with the new tax in place and put further strain on the sluggish economy. All will feel some pain.
The massive production on Yen will continue to fuel inflation (which of course the govt says is nil) which is in the high single digits as the Japanese import lots of oil and food. Incomes will lag, so like the US, consumers will be purchasing less with their paycheck.
Maybe that is the best way out for them, but the best way was really to never get into deep debt in the first place.
After 25 years of economic recession/depression in Japan, the life of the average resident going forward will be even less prosperous.
As I mentioned before, the birth rate is in the one child per couple range as folks simply cannot afford to raise many kids.
Japanese are a stoic and law abiding lot that will tolerate poor conditions and not readily complain. That is a good thing as their economy will be in a funk for another 20 or 30 years.
""what happens when you put down the newspaper, turn off the TV and computer and smartphone, and walk around the block?
talk to friends and neighbors and family? Is everyone miserable with the debt burden, and inflation woe, or is that just after they listen to you go on about it for a while? ""
I really enjoy life. Have saved much of what I have earned, live where I want to in the Arizona desert and have many close friends.
Economically though, what I see, I do not like. No need to rehash the details, but the G8 nations have gone mad trying to plug each dike with another trillion Euro, Yuan or dollar printing.
That has never worked well and is beneath the office holders that we have entrusted to act in a responsible manner.
Folks are not doing nearly as well as they did a decade ago. $100,000 just gets a family by in 2014.
God help the college grad with $100,000 in student debt, taxes through the roof if he finds work and now he has to support the medical care for every one older than he is. Good grief. Is that really what we want to pass on to our kids?
Baley and Cohodk, you are both good guys and I enjoy your posts immensely. You must both see a bit of darkness on the horizon.
Judging the severity of an upcoming storm on the horizon is often difficult. It is one thing to say....rain is comming. It is another thing to always go around yelling.....The sky is falling. JMHO
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<< <i>Judging the severity of an upcoming storm on the horizon is often difficult. It is one thing to say....rain is comming. It is another thing to always go around yelling.....The sky is falling. JMHO >>
I am have never suggested that folks stock up on 10 years of food, water and ammo. Dump everything into Gold and ride it out in an underground bunker. In fact I don't know of anyone here that is taking that approach.
Sadly the MO of the free world and China has been to mortgage the next two generations. Hoping of course (with the exception of China) that the drone kids will be plentiful, productive compliant.
To ignore all of this is really burying ones head in the sand.
Hoping of course (with the exception of China) that the drone kids will be plentiful, productive compliant.
To ignore all of this is really burying ones head in the sand.
So, what do DO about "all this"? What does someone who "gets it", who doesn't bury their head in the sand as you put it, but has their head up and alert and full of the entire list of the worlds's problems, just what does someone like that DO with their time all day about it?
rhetorical question, I guess "it depends," but would really like an example or two. Never really get a good answer to this one...
PS, I do see the darkness on the horizon, it's called dusk. The sun also rises.
"""So, what do DO about "all this"? What does someone who "gets it", who doesn't bury their head in the sand as you put it, but has their head up and alert and full of the entire list of the worlds's problems, just what does someone like that DO with their time all day about it?
rhetorical question, I guess "it depends," but would really like an example or two. Never really get a good answer to this one..."""
I will give you a good answer, Baley.
I pound out a ton of emails to the folks in Washington. Always polite and concise and I let them know what is expected of them. Same with the dolt newspaper editors that promote nation destroying blather.
I spend time working and contributing to political campaigns. Sitting back and having two lousy choices for state or national office is no longer good enough. The action is at the primary level.
The Affordable Care Act consumed much of my time fighting. It was close and came down to a few votes in Congress. I thought that if my congresswoman who was a leader of the Blue Dog Dems could be swayed, it may have gone down.
Had some or many or all of those that opposed the wretched program contacted theirs and other reps, we probably could have defeated the bill and all the folks that are complaining about it wouldn't have to.
That is what I do. When the young men and women in the family ask me why things are so messed up, at least I can say that I didn't sit on my fat behind, but I did the best that I could.
Comments
<< <i> or just completely go without medical insurance out of disgust for government wasteful spending? >>
Those same bonds are only 10-15 year bonds now cause time has passed to
maturity.
Bonds generally are bought for income.....not trading.
I don't worry about value of bonds going down cause they are
good credits and they will pay off at maturity.
I worry more about buying them at a good price.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>jmski52, even if you own your own business, health is something one can never predict, especially the older we get. >>
Same sucker mentality that was used to coerce the young invincibles to sign up for the ACA. Never know when you may twist an ankle playing basketball, you know.
Our national religion in America is now healthcare. Bow to the man in the white vestments and tithe 20% of your income whether you are well or ill.
Oh, I get it. I'm supposed to pay in and never sign up for any benefits. Is that your take?
As for the high volatility of longer term debt, the whole point in locking yourself up is because it is volatile. And rates 3-5 years from now could double or triple. If that were to occur, the government would have to pay MUCH higher interest than they could have. The whole point of doing what they're doing is precisely because the future ISN'T predictable. It isn't my "hope".
I invite you and bidask to follow your own strategy. Your hope is that when rates go up, there won't be an exodus out of bonds.
It's simple logic. Your logic is something completely contradictory to itself. You make it sound like the government is choosing between taking their own savings or surpluses and retiring debt, or choosing to borrow again. It's NOT a choice they have.
Come again? If that's not their choice then it's already game over. If you don't believe that there is no repercussion from chronic bad management, then you're the one living in fantasy land, not me. Next, you'll be calling me unpatriotic for not plowing everything I own into gov.com bonds.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Which is precisely wow the industry needs a complete overhaul, unless your point is that the healthcare industry shouldn't exist at all and if people get sick or diseased, then so be it. >>
Maybe the VA can be put in charge of the overhaul....or how about the IRS......maybe the NSA as they already have all the records.
Baseball, who in Washington do you trust to fix this mess? Seriously, name names.
I knew it would happen.
I knew it would happen.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>never mind, it's not worth it >>
+1,+2 and +3.
<< <i>but the path we are on now is basically a WAY overpriced, WAY inefficient, COMPLETE MESS. >>
We are in agreement on that.
Before Medicare/caid and widespread private health insurance, a doctor or hospital could only reap windfalls from the seriously ill. That was not good enough of course. Why take 20% from the sick when you can take 20% from everyone. Sadly our civil servants are puppets of the AMA and insurance industry and that is why all government health plans need to be dismantled.
Let charities cover the truly needy and maybe, just maybe folks will start taking better care of themselves.
Hey, great! Using the type of grossly jaded chacacterizations you spew, we can thus do away with all SSI Freeloaders sucking off our tax dollars!
<< <i>"Let charities cover the truly needy and maybe, just maybe folks will start taking better care of themselves. "
Hey, great! Using the type of grossly jaded chacacterizations you spew, we can thus do away with all SSI Freeloaders sucking off our tax dollars! >>
Actually they are sucking off of their own contributions and the contributions of younger workers paying into the ponzi system. Not quite the definition of a freeloader, yet. As long as there are government programs, whether funded by the taxpayer or the receipient, folks will let those programs provide for the needs of others. This is why we no longer see families taking care of their own like they used to.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Which is precisely wow the industry needs a complete overhaul, unless your point is that the healthcare industry shouldn't exist at all and if people get sick or diseased, then so be it. >>
Maybe the VA can be put in charge of the overhaul....or how about the IRS......maybe the NSA as they already have all the records.
Baseball, who in Washington do you trust to fix this mess? Seriously, name names. >>
It's not even a question of who, it's the system itself. I've had to "sign" up for medical insurance at least 20 times in the last 15 years. I must be in Blue Cross' database 5-6 different ways. Who knows why they can't track one simple SS#. You go to any provider, first thing you have to do is fill out forms. And more and more forms. And they if you get referred elsewhere, rinse and repeat. My old man was in an auto accident a few years back (not his fault), spent 6 hours in the ER, filled out NUMEROUS forms, took some tests, 4-5 hours of waiting, only to get a bill for $72K and sent home without even an aspirin. Healthcare in private sector IS NOT working.
Imagine having all your medical history under one database. NEVER having to fill out your allergies, or you SS# to a million different places, or your insurance information, etc. etc. All you do, when you need services, is go in and wait (of course) and give them your card or fingerprint. NEVER having to pay premiums. NEVER a copay. YOU complain about the 20%+ of the economy more than anyone. I couldn't agree with you more. It by no means would be some overnight change and would take years to work thru even most of the issues but the path we are on now is basically a WAY overpriced, WAY inefficient, COMPLETE MESS. I >>
Please inform us as to how the $72,000 bill would be paid and ultimately by whom.
Healthcare data is not static. Forms will have to be filled out to document changes in health status, no?
Please do not get me started on a country that pays astronomically more for treatment of PREVENTABLE AND SUBSIDIZED conditions such as morbid obesity, than prevention!
Which is now classified as a disease!! Give me a break!!
If you cannot comprehend that, then I have wasted your time and mine.
1+1=5 in this country today in "healthcare". Take a picture of a group of people today and look at it.
A picture is worth a thousand words and portrays millions to be spent in "healthcare".
Prevention, with strings attached could change the entire landscape, but that will not happen.
You know that is true, we are too late in the game for that.
You may call this a rant, I call it reality.
Healthcare is Financialized like everything else. Those who shuffle money see every sick or overweight american as a cow to be milked.
They produce nothing of value , they shuffle papers around , delay care , waste resources and rake off more money than the doctors that actually care for people.
They are paid to impede every process in our daily life.
I call bs. Who paid the bill?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>"Let charities cover the truly needy and maybe, just maybe folks will start taking better care of themselves. "
Hey, great! Using the type of grossly jaded chacacterizations you spew, we can thus do away with all SSI Freeloaders sucking off our tax dollars! >>
Good idea. SSI is another shackle around the ankle of young folks starting out in the world. We have really left them a costly and unmanageable legacy.
His name is Main Street.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
My old man was in an auto accident a few years back (not his fault), spent 6 hours in the ER, filled out NUMEROUS forms, took some tests, 4-5 hours of waiting, only to get a bill for $72K and sent home without even an aspirin.
At the risk of being called more names, I'm simply going to point out that if this scenario ever happened, it would be a fine lawsuit for just about any ambulance chaser. There's no way a hospital would bill anyone $72,000 for a 6 hour ER visit, of which 4-5 hours involved filling out forms, and then release him with out any treatment whatsoever. Absolutely Ludicrous.
And then, there's this:
Imagine having all your medical history under one database. NEVER having to fill out your allergies, or you SS# to a million different places, or your insurance information, etc. etc. All you do, when you need services, is go in and wait (of course) and give them your card or fingerprint. NEVER having to pay premiums. NEVER a copay. YOU complain about the 20%+ of the economy more than anyone. I couldn't agree with you more. It by no means would be some overnight change and would take years to work thru even most of the issues but the path we are on now is basically a WAY overpriced, WAY inefficient, COMPLETE MESS.
Sounds like Utopia to me! Nobody pays and everything is excellent! Be careful what you wish for. If you don't see any pitfalls or problems with this wonderful design, nobody can help you.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The $72K bill would never exist in a universal healthcare world. There would be no "bills". >>
Yep all free. at least for the 50% that pay no taxes.
A friend has an acute eye problem. VA says that they can see him in a month. Private doctor made same day appointment. Is that the kind of care that you want, baseball?
<< <i>I'm not wasting my time on a debate, because it's truly not worth it. I'm just going to state the obvious.
My old man was in an auto accident a few years back (not his fault), spent 6 hours in the ER, filled out NUMEROUS forms, took some tests, 4-5 hours of waiting, only to get a bill for $72K and sent home without even an aspirin.
At the risk of being called more names, I'm simply going to point out that if this scenario ever happened, it would be a fine lawsuit for just about any ambulance chaser. There's no way a hospital would bill anyone $72,000 for a 6 hour ER visit, of which 4-5 hours involved filling out forms, and then release him with out any treatment whatsoever. Absolutely Ludicrous. >>
did the taxpayer pay this guys bill? or did he pay it?... or he hired a lawyer and paid him so he wouldnt have to pay the bill?...
<< <i>
<< <i>The $72K bill would never exist in a universal healthcare world. There would be no "bills". >>
Yep all free. at least for the 50% that pay no taxes.
A friend has an acute eye problem. VA says that they can see him in a month. Private doctor made same day appointment. Is that the kind of care that you want, baseball? >>
Exactly what easily can occur! Watch what you wish for.
OMG! I agree with Mark on something!!!
It was paid thru Medicare/auto insurance/Medicare supplemental and I'm not sure what all.
Yes, the alleged $72,000 bill was paid by a combination of the terrible private system and the taxpayer funded one, but the ambulance chaser didn't itemize the payouts so it's of no consequence?
I'm looking at the bill right in front of me. It's exactly for $72,313 from the Regional Medical Center of San Jose.
And the bill was for taking up space in the emergency room, involving the staff with paperwork, and an exam that revealed no need for treatment, and not even an admission?
At the risk of being repetitive, there's no way a hospital would bill anyone $72,000 for a 6 hour ER visit, of which 4-5 hours involved filling out forms, and then release him with out any treatment whatsoever.
Unless there's something else going on here that wasn't mentioned. You don't get released without treatment and then get billed for $72,000. There's more to the story, but it doesn't fit with the idea of socialized medicine, so don't expect to get the real story here.
I knew it would happen.
And I quote -
"All you do, when you need services, is go in and wait (of course) and give them your card or fingerprint. NEVER having to pay premiums. NEVER a copay."
I knew it would happen.
The worst part of it is that the first time we got wind of the bill was EIGHT months later when they sent a threatening payment letter. My mom is a total paranoid person when it comes to bills and if it came, she definitely would have saw it. Even on the crazy chance that the first invoice supposedly might have gotten lost in the mail, you'd think subsequent statements would have been sent in between such a lengthy period of time. But no. I had zero experience dealing with auto accidents and was trying to work (in a non litigious manner) with the opposing auto insurance company, who accepted liability for the accident almost immediately. However, I had no idea that you pretty much HAVE to have a lawyer in such situations or they don't even bother working with you. After receiving their demand letter and the invoice (8 months later), I finally contact an attorney who started the multi-year process of resolving the entire ordeal. The whole process is an inefficient completely wasteful joke the way it works today.
Now see, I understand. I'm sorry for what you, and your folks went through. It's a rotten situation and I hope it gets resolved from here on out. But there was more to it than being kicked out without so much as an aspirin.
Unfortunately, there's nothing that leads me to believe that the process or the treatment would have been any better or less expensive with the abortion of a "healthcare system" being controlled by gov.com, i.e. the post office, the license bureau, the IRS et al. You don't know. You just don't.
I knew it would happen.
Seems your dad should feel lucky he was not killed or disabled.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sometimes no treatment is the best treatment.
Seems your dad should feel lucky he was not killed or disabled. >>
His back was severely injured and he couldn't walk for two weeks so I certainly wouldn't agree that "no treatment is the best treatment." His back is still bothering him so I'm not sure he should feel that "lucky" for an accident that was not his doing. >>
You are fortunate to have not suffered the results of a family member being killed or disabled by another driver.
What magic wand do you think was withheld that could have resulted in a better outcome for your dad's bad back?
Do you feel like some treatment was withheld? You don't agree that no treatment was the best treatment so what should have been done?
Did you Google it?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Sometimes no treatment is the best treatment.
Seems your dad should feel lucky he was not killed or disabled. >>
Twice we agree.
Consider that much (if not all) of that paper pushing and cost runup was caused by government involvement in the first place. Just consider it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i> But about 10 years or so ago, I began to change my tune after working for drug companies and getting a sense of how hospitals work, the FDA, insurance companies. >>
Care to share some of the tactics used by the drug manufacturers? The payoffs to doctors would be a good start!
The best answer is competition across state lines for insurance and between healthcare providers.
Unfortunately, government has been pretty effective in eliminating competition due to the influence of big money. Whether its source is big corporations, big unions, or big foreign interests - bonafide competition hasn't been government policy since the breakup of AT&T.
There's nothing good about consolidation that eliminates competition.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>There's nothing good about consolidation that eliminates competition. >>
Very true and this disservice is just as insidious at the local level. Tax breaks and taxpayer investment make it nearly impossible for the smaller competitor to survive, let alone prosper.
Tesla who is a subsidy sucking monster is now demanding that the home state for their new batter plant kick in 10% of the cost. More like extortion than best business practices.
The Schmuck politicians go along with the scam in the name of job creation. That and the inevitable golden honorarium for a short speech and a large paycheck.
Somewhere Ayn Rand is shaking her head.
Treasuries trade on session highs with the 10y -1bp @ 2.403%
Germany's 10y briefly pressed below 1.00% for the first time ever, currently -2bps @ 1.010%
France's 10y is off -3bps @ 1.400%, a record low
Spain's 10y is lower by -8bps @ 2.515%
Australia's 10y slid -5bps to 3.395%
Read more: http://www.briefing.com/Platinum/InDepth/InPlay.htm#ixzz3ANQRObgm
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>The USA will have a universal healthcare system by 2030, when the baby boomers no longer have a majority voice. >>
At which time they will be universally morted-out.
<< <i>Bond holders keep winning....
Treasuries trade on session highs with the 10y -1bp @ 2.403%
Germany's 10y briefly pressed below 1.00% for the first time ever, currently -2bps @ 1.010%
France's 10y is off -3bps @ 1.400%, a record low
Spain's 10y is lower by -8bps @ 2.515%
Australia's 10y slid -5bps to 3.395%
Read more: http://www.briefing.com/Platinum/InDepth/InPlay.htm#ixzz3ANQRObgm >>
Germany at 1%?
Sounds like a safe bet as they are only one drunken comrade away from having the fuel pipeline shut off. Maybe they can import Janet Yellen and declare deflation, even as nat gas prices triple.
Globalization has really turned into a nightmare.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bond holders keep winning....
Treasuries trade on session highs with the 10y -1bp @ 2.403%
Germany's 10y briefly pressed below 1.00% for the first time ever, currently -2bps @ 1.010%
France's 10y is off -3bps @ 1.400%, a record low
Spain's 10y is lower by -8bps @ 2.515%
Australia's 10y slid -5bps to 3.395%
Read more: http://www.briefing.com/Platinum/InDepth/InPlay.htm#ixzz3ANQRObgm >>
Germany at 1%?
Sounds like a safe bet as they are only one drunken comrade away from having the fuel pipeline shut off. Maybe they can import Janet Yellen and declare deflation, even as nat gas prices triple.
Globalization has really turned into a nightmare. >>
1. What natural resources does Japan have? Seems they've done OK for nearly a generation.
2. Sounds like a great opportunity for US gas producers and shipping companies.
3. A great chance the pipeline thru Turkey gets completed. Is that a risk Russia wants to take?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
2. Sounds like a great opportunity for US gas producers and shipping companies.
3. A great chance the pipeline thru Turkey gets completed. Is that a risk Russia wants to take?""""
1. Japan is in terrible shape. Problem with a huge debt load, whether micro or macro is everything is fine until default occurs. Those that consider government paper to be the safest investment available, either end up with nothing or payment in hugely devalued currency.
2. Agree!
3. I am unable to figure out what Putin has on his mind. Despots often dispose of the well being of their citizenry in an effort to conquer the world, or at least the parts that they consider important. He has 80% support in Russia and is liable to continue to act in an aggressive manner.
Russia 10 year notes are now at a yield of 8.5% and he seemingly has not been deterred yet.
Name a country in "great shape"
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Japan is in terrible shape.
Name a country in "great shape" >>
None come to mind, at least when measured by overwhelming debt.
Japan is in particularly deep doo doo though. They have a national debt close to that of the US, with a third of our population.
On a per person basis they owe about $140k per citizen and double that per taxpayer.
Recent national sales tax dropped GDP by 6 or 7% in the last reporting period.
Aging population and low birthrate are not are not going to help resolve the economic morass.
But what the hell, let me put the rose colored glasses on and all is well.
Imagine being an 62 year old economic savant in Japan in 1994. You see all the things happening that you state and expect the country to fall apart and everyone living in the street. Now you are 82, did you enjoy the last 20 years of your life?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
what happens when you put down the newspaper, turn off the TV and computer and smartphone, and walk around the block?
talk to friends and neighbors and family? Is everyone miserable with the debt burden, and inflation woe, or is that just after they listen to you go on about it for a while?
Kidding!
but seriously, how's the quality of life in Japan? Folks hatin' it?
And all those "fundamentals" working against Japan yet they keep on keepin' on.
Imagine being an 62 year old economic savant in Japan in 1994. You see all the things happening that you state and expect the country to fall apart and everyone living in the street. Now you are 82, did you enjoy the last 20 years of your life?
see above. We make our own reality in our minds and in our immediate environment. Cassandra, chicken little, eeyore, that cartoon guy that said, "it'll never work!", were never very popular at parties
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>And all those "fundamentals" working against Japan yet they keep on keepin' on.
Imagine being an 62 year old economic savant in Japan in 1994. You see all the things happening that you state and expect the country to fall apart and everyone living in the street. Now you are 82, did you enjoy the last 20 years of your life? >>
Kind of like the 400 pound man that keeps eating hamburgers and pizza and fries. Everyone expects him to drop dead, but he doesn't he keeps on smiling as he continues his life of gluttony.
Economic laws are absolute though and can seemingly be stretched or ignored for a while, but eventually wield the ultimate decision.
Japan has been on an aggressive monetary expansion program for a year and a half. They have also increased the consumption tax considerably.
Tax hikes are never fun or pretty, but they generally raise revenue if not too shocking or economy numbing. Consumers will be able to purchase less with the new tax in place and put further strain on the sluggish economy. All will feel some pain.
The massive production on Yen will continue to fuel inflation (which of course the govt says is nil) which is in the high single digits as the Japanese import lots of oil and food. Incomes will lag, so like the US, consumers will be purchasing less with their paycheck.
Maybe that is the best way out for them, but the best way was really to never get into deep debt in the first place.
After 25 years of economic recession/depression in Japan, the life of the average resident going forward will be even less prosperous.
As I mentioned before, the birth rate is in the one child per couple range as folks simply cannot afford to raise many kids.
Japanese are a stoic and law abiding lot that will tolerate poor conditions and not readily complain. That is a good thing as their economy will be in a funk for another 20 or 30 years.
talk to friends and neighbors and family? Is everyone miserable with the debt burden, and inflation woe, or is that just after they listen to you go on about it for a while? ""
I really enjoy life. Have saved much of what I have earned, live where I want to in the Arizona desert and have many close friends.
Economically though, what I see, I do not like. No need to rehash the details, but the G8 nations have gone mad trying to plug each dike with another trillion Euro, Yuan or dollar printing.
That has never worked well and is beneath the office holders that we have entrusted to act in a responsible manner.
Folks are not doing nearly as well as they did a decade ago. $100,000 just gets a family by in 2014.
God help the college grad with $100,000 in student debt, taxes through the roof if he finds work and now he has to support the medical care for every one older than he is. Good grief. Is that really what we want to pass on to our kids?
Baley and Cohodk, you are both good guys and I enjoy your posts immensely. You must both see a bit of darkness on the horizon.
It is one thing to say....rain is comming.
It is another thing to always go around yelling.....The sky is falling.
JMHO
<< <i>Judging the severity of an upcoming storm on the horizon is often difficult.
It is one thing to say....rain is comming.
It is another thing to always go around yelling.....The sky is falling.
JMHO >>
I am have never suggested that folks stock up on 10 years of food, water and ammo. Dump everything into Gold and ride it out in an underground bunker. In fact I don't know of anyone here that is taking that approach.
Sadly the MO of the free world and China has been to mortgage the next two generations. Hoping of course (with the exception of China) that the drone kids will be plentiful, productive compliant.
To ignore all of this is really burying ones head in the sand.
To ignore all of this is really burying ones head in the sand.
So, what do DO about "all this"? What does someone who "gets it", who doesn't bury their head in the sand as you put it, but has their head up and alert and full of the entire list of the worlds's problems, just what does someone like that DO with their time all day about it?
rhetorical question, I guess "it depends," but would really like an example or two. Never really get a good answer to this one...
PS, I do see the darkness on the horizon, it's called dusk. The sun also rises.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
rhetorical question, I guess "it depends," but would really like an example or two. Never really get a good answer to this one..."""
I will give you a good answer, Baley.
I pound out a ton of emails to the folks in Washington. Always polite and concise and I let them know what is expected of them. Same with the dolt newspaper editors that promote nation destroying blather.
I spend time working and contributing to political campaigns. Sitting back and having two lousy choices for state or national office is no longer good enough. The action is at the primary level.
The Affordable Care Act consumed much of my time fighting. It was close and came down to a few votes in Congress. I thought that if my congresswoman who was a leader of the Blue Dog Dems could be swayed, it may have gone down.
Had some or many or all of those that opposed the wretched program contacted theirs and other reps, we probably could have defeated the bill and all the folks that are complaining about it wouldn't have to.
That is what I do. When the young men and women in the family ask me why things are so messed up, at least I can say that I didn't sit on my fat behind, but I did the best that I could.