Is This Pretty Much Impossible Now??

ElvisP

Putting together graded vintage sets? In the past regardless of what card you were looking for you could find several examples on ebay for auction and you could pick it up for a reasonable cost. Those days are gone. Now if you are looking for a particular card it is a) Not there or A couple of BIN's that are way over the VCP. Good luck finding a particular card up for auction. 9 times out of 10 if there is an auction the starting price is more than the card is worth. As we all know ebay is now a store, no longer an auction site. I know there are a couple of large dealers that do offer true auctions but outside of those true auctions are rare. Unless you have unlimited funds which most of us don't and are willing to pay a premium I think it is near impossible to put together a pre 1970 graded set. Here is what I think a good example of the kind of difficulties in putting together a graded set.

1958 Topps Unitas PSA 8 VCP $695 Only one on ebay at a BIN $1,050 (By the way this particular card has been on ebay for months)

I could go on and on but I know you guys know this is not an isolated example. Even if you are not wanting to put together a set and just are looking for particular single cards it is very difficult to find them on ebay these days especially at a reasonable price. I think it is near impossible to find a vintage BIN card that is under the VCP. Just venting some frustration, sorry about that. Any thoughts?

MULLINS5

I hear what you're saying.

My take: I think auctions are a reflection of a wholesale price and BIN is a reflection of retail. It's not that BIN prices are "more than a card is worth."

Of course there really are overpriced BIN examples all over the place...

Dealers have a margin they have to make on each item, and the bidding history of many auctions have dealer's bids sprinkled in there, but they drop out once their margin can't be made.

Like with any other market/product, there's a lot of people who won't pay retail, and many who will.

1954

Five years ago it bothered me when all I would see on Ebay was buy it nows but I feel differently about it today. Most sellers want to offer their cards for what they want to and not what VCP says. VCP is just a guide-just like the SMR or Beckett was 15 years ago. If every collector only paid VCP for the cards then appreciation would NEVER occur. Someone has to pay more than VCP for prices to change. Most card buyers want and expect to buy a card today so they can make a profit tomorrow. While I want to buy cards that hold its value, resale is not my main focus for my purchases. This topic over VCP bothers me more than seeing overpriced cards offered on EBay. There are other ways of collecting sets than to buy the card on Ebay. Grade the card yourself and see how difficult it is to build an all PSA 8/9 set of a certain year. Then you will realize why some of the sellers are asking above VCP for the card.

mikeschmidt

interesting discussion-

Other than the Wagner and Doyle, I'm quite confident someone could put together a T206 set without a second thought, in a few months at most-

60sfan

A lot of BIN listings are doing nothing more than taking up space.......... I wonder how many $200+ cards PWCC and Probstein have sold this year compared to how many $200+ BIN cards have sold this year.

bobsbbcards

<< <i>My take: I think auctions are a reflection of a wholesale price and BIN is a reflection of retail. It's not that BIN prices are "more than a card is worth." >>


I almost wandered away, but this one was gnawing at me. How can an auction be a wholesale price and not a retail price? Are the only people who buy cards at auction dealers looking for a card to resell? I'm pretty sure that collectors are allowed to bid on auction items as well.

Auction prices are pretty much the definition of retail--everyone on the planet has the ability to bid what they're willing to pay, and that's the "price" that the card sells for. The underbidder on an auction is the person who sets the price (the high bidder might have bid two billion dollars for all we know).

I have absolutely no problem paying 1.2 to 1.5 times VCP for a card that I need/want, and depending on the scarcity, MUCH more. I consider VCP the LOW price that I can expect to pay, with the idea that cards are an appreciating asset. I'd still rather pay that in an auction format, although the auctions that I've bid on have sometimes gone way above those numbers. Most sellers on eBay are terrified of what would happen if they simply put a card out there at $0.99 and let it ride. I've never run an auction any other way, and I've yet to regret that decision. PWCC and Probstein seem to have that same philosophy, and no one can argue with their success.

jay0791

Hi quality stuff is getting over VCP these days...many at all time highs for recent auctions.

Yes many 2-3x VCP museum pieces out there but many auctions. I have seen the same card at the same price for well over 2 years.

I am willing to pay 1.5X VCP or even more no problem for nice cards (not low end). More than that probably not.

Love the ebay 4X bucks. I specifically look and save cards I want for this deal. Helps when a card is priced over VCP and the extra

rebate certainly takes a little less bite out.

miwlvrn

For a graded card that is highly priced due to scarcity of pop report, why not just buy a decent raw one and sub it yourself if completion of a graded set is the stated goal without having specified a minimum grade requirement for your set in the OP? If you can live with a grade or 2 lower on some items than what you're finding but can't justify the cost, it sure would make the set building a lot easier.

garnettstyle

<< <i>A lot of BIN listings are doing nothing more than taking up space.......... I wonder how many $200+ cards PWCC and Probstein have sold this year compared to how many $200+ BIN cards have sold this year. >>



When I go on ebay I ignore all the BIN's by clicking on auction only. I think ebay should start charging sellers who have the same item listed after 3 months.

DezHood

I don't think it's impossible. Heck, I'm working on 35 Chicle and 48 Leaf football in mid to low grade right now. The way I look at it, you have to have the patience and discipline to ignore the "crazy" BINs. Put "-mikedenero" in your search and a lot of them disappear right away. The trend of auctions with a minimum bid above what I'm willing to pay is a super annoying growing trend. Most of them get 0 bids, but the seller has every right to do it. The interesting thing about this market is that it is a market in "rare items" - sure some aren't super rare, but no one is going out producing more cards from 1948 (or at least they shouldn't be). So sometimes you look at VCP or eBay history and you kind of know the "equilibrium" price. Other times when the most recent data is from 2 years ago - you really don't know. So what do you do? It's a personal decision. For me, I think if I pay x, how much would I lose if I auctioned off the next day? Another thought - it kind of forces you to look at other avenues of buying cards - shows, auction houses, contacts with board members, etc. Long term I don't think it's a bad thing that the market isn't flooded with vintage cards - then the price would be dropping. And I don't think auctions will go away. Impatient people like myself will want to "monetize" some items without the hassle of listing them and re-listing them indefinitely. Just my 2 cents - great post that will have infinite opinions.

PMKAY

There are some BIN listings on ebay where the initial listing price wasn't far off what the market was at the time of listing but since that time the market changed for whatever reason and the seller hasn't changed the price. For example there was a card listed on ebay as a BIN of $495. This was ridiculous as recent sales of that card had been for between 40 and 50 dollars. I politely asked the seller why the price was so high and they thanked me for pointing it out and said that the POP had grown quite a bit since it was originally listed. He dropped his price to $99 or best offer. Two days later the card sold for $55.

bounce

i think you just have to be patient, and some of it depends on what you're trying to do

i'm working on a 1956 topps set in psa 6 to 7, started it in probably december and i'm down to final 20 cards or so

i don't see the ones i need frequently, but i've also missed some that i should have at least bid on (a $19 PSA 7 Amoros is haunting me from a couple weeks ago still)

if you don't care about price, then yes it can be done - if you do care about price, it can still be done but you have to be patient

if you're trying to do a vintage set in PSA 8 or 9 or 10, you better be really patient or start subbing cards yourself

KendallCat

<< <i>

<< <i>A lot of BIN listings are doing nothing more than taking up space.......... I wonder how many $200+ cards PWCC and Probstein have sold this year compared to how many $200+ BIN cards have sold this year. >>



When I go on ebay I ignore all the BIN's by clicking on auction only. I think ebay should start charging sellers who have the same item listed after 3 months. >>



Was at Probstein's booth at the Natty and overhead him discussing BIN versus auction with a buyer. Basically told him that if a card looks like it will have 4-5 buyers he will auction it, and if not he just does the BIN option. My thinking is after a $200 card sits there offer them $160-185 for it and see what they do. At some point they have to make their money.