<< <i>I left the show yesterday and there were probably 100 or so in line already. The buy price from dealers has dropped from the high of $3500 down to $2000. I dont care if you give me $2000 i wont stand in line for 16 hours. Not worth it. That is time I could be living and doing more productive things. >>
when you need or want money.. the wait was no problem..
A good gesture, but nevertheless the US Mint should stop this nonsense. The way to stop is -
Next show release.................
1) US Mint should allow anyone to "enter" a random selected lottery at the show. 2) Randomly select XXX number of tickets and display numbers. 3) Ticket holder must come forward and purchase coin with their own personal credit card or check drawn on their account. They must have photo ID. No cash or ppd cards accepted. (and I know cash should be accepted, but many events do not accept "cash" for security reasons---and this is a way to eliminate cash seeded buyers) 4) One per person per duration of the show. Names are collected upon sale.
Stops the group buyers dead in their tracks. They can buy from people coming off the line - but I guarantee you the lines will be a very orderly process. None of this BS with 99.9% of those online are only paid line sitters - most don't even know what they are buying - and 99.9% could not even afford to buy one on their own. >>
Good ideas. Announce the numbers to come purchase your coin, and post them on a sign, in small batches say 10 numbers at a time. After those 10 have completed transactions do the next ten. Only hold those numbers that don't respond in some time period then put them back in the hopper. Your number called, don't respond, show up hours later, too bad. This way you can enjoy the show and not be anchored by the mint booth.
A good gesture, but nevertheless the US Mint should stop this nonsense. The way to stop is -
Next show release.................
1) US Mint should allow anyone to "enter" a random selected lottery at the show. 2) Randomly select XXX number of tickets and display numbers. 3) Ticket holder must come forward and purchase coin with their own personal credit card or check drawn on their account. They must have photo ID. No cash or ppd cards accepted. (and I know cash should be accepted, but many events do not accept "cash" for security reasons---and this is a way to eliminate cash seeded buyers) 4) One per person per duration of the show. Names are collected upon sale.
Stops the group buyers dead in their tracks. They can buy from people coming off the line - but I guarantee you the lines will be a very orderly process. None of this BS with 99.9% of those online are only paid line sitters - most don't even know what they are buying - and 99.9% could not even afford to buy one on their own. >>
why the lottery proposal is a bad idea
1) how do you win a lottery? Buying the most tickets. This would simply encourage line stuffing just as much as the current system. 2) remote probabilities - there is an off chance that no collectors get any and all paid line sitters get them all.
they only solution apparent to me right now is going back to online only as previously discussed.
Keep trying to come up with new solutions though, because I do not think Acting Director Peterson will move away from show releases without serious amounts of public and/or political (Congressional) pressure to do so. He is a harvard MBA and sees the money. The sales definitely make up for their show costs. Although, if they sold the same numbers online ... wouldn't it make no difference? Or, 1) maybe this spurs even more sales thanonline only would generate and 2) they certainly save on the shipping which would not be covered by the $4.95 they collect per order.
Yeah, but I'm not entirely sure this is a "good coin frenzy." Last night amid the sirens and bullhorns, there were fights, street gang muggings, and general bits of pandemonium and unruliness so that people could buy a coin they're told they could make instant Obscene Profit™ on, and many of these people had no idea why once they were paid to show up. Yes, it created a ton of publicity, but also security problems. Some of these people were introduced to the hobby as they looked around at other things in the show, but many simply saw it as a get-rich-quick opportunity. The Kennedy gypsy camp was setting up for tomorrow morning this afternoon. While it's great that some "regular people" will make serious money on this over the next few days, there will be some downstream that will get buried in the coins, which won't exactly sit well with them. At any rate, I am left wondering what any of this really has to do with numismatics. >>
I did not hear of any street gang muggings.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Im sure many standing in line haven't seen anything like that wage in their lives.
But this is not an effort by the US Mint to help the homeless, or college students, or people down on their luck....
The US Mints goal is to put as many of these coins into the hands of the "end" collector. Not into intermediate hands to be marked up twice or more. >>
Those standing in line by far played by the rules. I'm happy for all who got coins ....collectors , homeless or otherwise.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The mint must have been introducing products at the ANA for years. Was the 2009 UHR first introduced at a coin show? I can't remember, but I don't think there are no special show labels for that coin.
So why were these special ANA/coin show labels not implemented way before the first Reverse Proof Buffalo? I guess the marketers didn't think of the labels yet.
Correct. The frenzy and high prices are not the fault of the ANA or the Mint. It's the grading companies who give out the special labels based on the place the coin is sold as well as those end customers who believe where the coin was sold matters for some reason. Without the availability of a special label most of this goes away.
<< <i>Correct. The frenzy and high prices are not the fault of the ANA or the Mint. It's the grading companies who give out the special labels based on the place the coin is sold as well as those end customers who believe where the coin was sold matters for some reason. Without the availability of a special label most of this goes away. >>
with or without the TPG labels, these ANA show coins would have sold at big premiums .. If PCGS and NGC were not at the Show, dealers would still bid up these coins.. it is the ANA and the Mint ginning up excite about the coin to the point they couldn't put the genie back in the bottle . TPGs are at every big coin Show.. the Chicago ANA mess were created by the Mint and at Chicago ,it was poorly managed by the ANA
Comments
Practice makes perfect & nobody is perfect. So, practice being nobody.
<< <i>I left the show yesterday and there were probably 100 or so in line already. The buy price from dealers has dropped from the high of $3500 down to $2000. I dont care if you give me $2000 i wont stand in line for 16 hours. Not worth it. That is time I could be living and doing more productive things. >>
when you need or want money.. the wait was no problem..
<< <i>Uggh, OK
A good gesture, but nevertheless the US Mint should stop this nonsense. The way to stop is -
Next show release.................
1) US Mint should allow anyone to "enter" a random selected lottery at the show.
2) Randomly select XXX number of tickets and display numbers.
3) Ticket holder must come forward and purchase coin with their own personal credit card or check drawn on their account. They must have photo ID. No cash or ppd cards accepted. (and I know cash should be accepted, but many events do not accept "cash" for security reasons---and this is a way to eliminate cash seeded buyers)
4) One per person per duration of the show. Names are collected upon sale.
Stops the group buyers dead in their tracks. They can buy from people coming off the line - but I guarantee you the lines will be a very orderly process. None of this BS with 99.9% of those online are only paid line sitters - most don't even know what they are buying - and 99.9% could not even afford to buy one on their own. >>
Good ideas.
Announce the numbers to come purchase your coin, and post them on a sign, in small batches say 10 numbers at a time. After those 10 have completed transactions do the next ten. Only hold those numbers that don't respond in some time period then put them back in the hopper. Your number called, don't respond, show up hours later, too bad. This way you can enjoy the show and not be anchored by the mint booth.
<< <i>Uggh, OK
A good gesture, but nevertheless the US Mint should stop this nonsense. The way to stop is -
Next show release.................
1) US Mint should allow anyone to "enter" a random selected lottery at the show.
2) Randomly select XXX number of tickets and display numbers.
3) Ticket holder must come forward and purchase coin with their own personal credit card or check drawn on their account. They must have photo ID. No cash or ppd cards accepted. (and I know cash should be accepted, but many events do not accept "cash" for security reasons---and this is a way to eliminate cash seeded buyers)
4) One per person per duration of the show. Names are collected upon sale.
Stops the group buyers dead in their tracks. They can buy from people coming off the line - but I guarantee you the lines will be a very orderly process. None of this BS with 99.9% of those online are only paid line sitters - most don't even know what they are buying - and 99.9% could not even afford to buy one on their own. >>
why the lottery proposal is a bad idea
1) how do you win a lottery? Buying the most tickets. This would simply encourage line stuffing just as much as the current system.
2) remote probabilities - there is an off chance that no collectors get any and all paid line sitters get them all.
they only solution apparent to me right now is going back to online only as previously discussed.
Keep trying to come up with new solutions though, because I do not think Acting Director Peterson will move away from show releases without serious amounts of public and/or political (Congressional) pressure to do so. He is a harvard MBA and sees the money. The sales definitely make up for their show costs. Although, if they sold the same numbers online ... wouldn't it make no difference? Or, 1) maybe this spurs even more sales thanonline only would generate and 2) they certainly save on the shipping which would not be covered by the $4.95 they collect per order.
ANA 50+ year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Author: 3rd Edition of the SampleSlabs book, https://sampleslabs.info/
<< <i>I could care less about this stuff but
since you have no interest I believe you meant to say "I couldn't care less" unless you really do care.
. >>
he had another thing coming, huh?
No chance of buying any more tickets
So stuffing the box can't happen
<< <i>A lottery would allow for only one entry per person
No chance of buying any more tickets
So stuffing the box can't happen >>
Those that wanted more than one chance would just hire more people to come to the show to get those extra chances.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
<< <i>
<< <i>I love a good coin frenzy. >>
Yeah, but I'm not entirely sure this is a "good coin frenzy." Last night amid the sirens and bullhorns, there were fights, street gang muggings, and general bits of pandemonium and unruliness so that people could buy a coin they're told they could make instant Obscene Profit™ on, and many of these people had no idea why once they were paid to show up. Yes, it created a ton of publicity, but also security problems. Some of these people were introduced to the hobby as they looked around at other things in the show, but many simply saw it as a get-rich-quick opportunity. The Kennedy gypsy camp was setting up for tomorrow morning this afternoon. While it's great that some "regular people" will make serious money on this over the next few days, there will be some downstream that will get buried in the coins, which won't exactly sit well with them. At any rate, I am left wondering what any of this really has to do with numismatics. >>
I did not hear of any street gang muggings.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Im sure many standing in line haven't seen anything like that wage in their lives.
But this is not an effort by the US Mint to help the homeless, or college students, or people down on their luck....
The US Mints goal is to put as many of these coins into the hands of the "end" collector. Not into intermediate hands to be marked up twice or more. >>
Those standing in line by far played by the rules. I'm happy for all who got coins ....collectors , homeless or otherwise.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
hit the street?
So why were these special ANA/coin show labels not implemented way before the first Reverse Proof Buffalo? I guess the marketers didn't think of the labels yet.
Box of 20
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700
<< <i>Correct. The frenzy and high prices are not the fault of the ANA or the Mint. It's the grading companies who give out the special labels based on the place the coin is sold as well as those end customers who believe where the coin was sold matters for some reason. Without the availability of a special label most of this goes away. >>
with or without the TPG labels, these ANA show coins would have sold at big premiums .. If PCGS and NGC were not at the Show, dealers would still bid up these coins..
it is the ANA and the Mint ginning up excite about the coin to the point they couldn't put the genie back in the bottle .
TPGs are at every big coin Show.. the Chicago ANA mess were created by the Mint and at Chicago ,it was poorly managed by the ANA