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my 1892 barber quarter

Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
This was the quarter I showed in the other tread. The reason why I post this coin is because it is the only older coin I had ever bought off ebay and set in to be graded. Everything else is new stuff from the mint. I have a couple of questions after doing research I thought barber quarters would be a great place to start. But, my only problem is how do they determine the grade on these coins.

This is my coin right here, I don't have a problem with quest. color, whatever be as it may. My concern is VF Details! If you guys could tell me, if I am looking at my coin in the wrong spots for wear. I made a big mistake earlier this week and don't want to do it again.

image



image


image


Then for comparison sake



1892 Barber Quarter xf45

My eagle on the back looks 10x better then this eagle on this coin. It has all the details on the neck and you can still see the whole face



1892 barber vf20

This coin in my eyes is not even close. The wreath on the head is totally worn. The eagle doesn't even compare.

Please don't bombard me with negative comments. Just a question and I am trying to learn. And also, am I right on what I am seeing!

Comments

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    guitarwesguitarwes Posts: 9,240 ✭✭✭
    Looks like an AU coin from those images. Maybe XF45 for the wear on the Eagle's wing tips, that may be just strike though. May have been a mechanical error on the slab.
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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭
    I thought it was an au all day! I would have been happy with a xf
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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭
    image

    image

    These are closer shots the liberty is bold like the red book says it should be! I don't know
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    SAM5969SAM5969 Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭
    Inconsistency .. They are even more inconsistently inconsistent, especially when it comes to circulated Barbers ...

    I had an 1893 Barber Half about a year and a half ago that had full upper and lower bands above/below LIBERTY, wings 95% to the tips , all 13 stars struck up.. Sent it in expecting XF40; VF35 at worst... and the slab came back Cleaning - F Details (fine) .. However, when you put the slab in to the cert look up on the PCGS site, it showed it was Fair Details. And often the grade is way off; and sometimes the data entry even more so (The coin was not cleaned either ... But therein lies the opinion image )

    We buy opinions .. And often the opinions of the collector of his series are much more consistent as the collector is a series specialist vs. the graders who are jacks of all trades, masters of none

    Edit: Spelling
    imageimage
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    XF details - the photos make it appear to have been whizzed or something, giving it that 'faux' luster - and then retoned.
    But it may just be the images.



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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭
    Ok, so you will run into inconsistency's. I don't like that, lol. People pay good money to have these slabbed and graded. They should have examples of everything right at there fingertips showing coins from each grade and flipping through pictures until the closest match!
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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭


    << <i>XF details - the photos make it appear to have been whizzed or something, giving it that 'faux' luster - and then retoned.
    But it may just be the images. >>



    My camera stinks! I will take better pictures when my family gets home from tenn. they are on vacation with the better camera.
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,945 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin has better than VF details but, as I said in the other thread, it has been dipped and retoned.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭


    << <i>The coin has better than VF details but, as I said in the other thread, it has been dipped and retoned. >>



    I had taken your advise from the other thread, hence me saying "I don't have a problem with quest. color, whatever be as it may."

    But, thanks for your input. In my opinion it is still wrong grading, with VF details that should be enough!

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    lostincoinslostincoins Posts: 4,278 ✭
    Remember the people grading coins are just that people. They could have had crusty eyes that day, a head ache or any number of issues affecting them at the time they looked at your coin. If you do not agree with them send it in for reconsideration.
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks cleaned. No reason for them not to be conservative with a problem coin
    Early Dollar Set
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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭
    I am asking because I don't know. It has a proof look to it all the way, would that be from cleaning or dipping?
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    TommyTypeTommyType Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Since my "vacation" from collecting included PCGS transition from the "Body Bag" to encapsulating problem coins, I ask this:

    What does PCGS mean by their "Details" assessment?
    - Is it a simple grade of the remaining details on the coin, assuming we ignore the problems? (That's the inference, if not intent).
    - Or, is it an assessment of the value of the coin, taking into account the remaining detail AND the problems? (ie. a "Net Grade")

    I know ANACS used to net coins....But sometimes those were pretty sketchy too. Just wondering where PCGS falls.

    IF they ARE netting the grade, they may have knocked off for the color, possible cleaning, the mark on the neck, etc, to come up with the VF.
    Easily distracted Type Collector
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    Paulyaces76Paulyaces76 Posts: 294 ✭✭


    << <i>Since my "vacation" from collecting included PCGS transition from the "Body Bag" to encapsulating problem coins, I ask this:

    What does PCGS mean by their "Details" assessment?
    - Is it a simple grade of the remaining details on the coin, assuming we ignore the problems? (That's the inference, if not intent).
    - Or, is it an assessment of the value of the coin, taking into account the remaining detail AND the problems? (ie. a "Net Grade")

    I know ANACS used to net coins....But sometimes those were pretty sketchy too. Just wondering where PCGS falls.

    IF they ARE netting the grade, they may have knocked off for the color, possible cleaning, the mark on the neck, etc, to come up with the VF. >>




    See, that makes complete sense! I hope someone can give us an answer on that!
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have always assumed that the details grade was the grade of the coin if the problem(s) were not there.

    But you know what they say about assuming.image
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    phnataccphnatacc Posts: 367 ✭✭
    This isn't PCGS being conservative. It is them assigning a wrong details grade.

    They got into the details (not net) grading business and no amount of swimming in the kool-aid pool could change a right thinking person into agreeing that this is indeed a VF details coin by PCGS's own standards.

    Regardless, the majority of responses here should give some comfort moving forward that you aren't nuts and that this is just how the game works sometimes.
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    DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,200 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, but 'VF details' is way off.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

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    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It looks waaaaaaaaaaaay better than the grade assigned. Be happy!!image
    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
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    Steve27Steve27 Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭
    Crack it out, dip it, and resubmit it. It will come back slabbed with a higher non-details grade.
    "It's far easier to fight for principles, than to live up to them." Adlai Stevenson
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    PatchesPatches Posts: 1,700 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Looks cleaned. No reason for them not to be conservative with a problem coin >>



    This statements ridiculous, it isn't VF details which is what our hosts are stating as their opinion.
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    MFHMFH Posts: 11,720 ✭✭✭✭

    The coin has AU details. Period.

    Agreeing with the assessment that it has VF details
    is so far off the mark I am surprised at anyone who
    supports this statement.

    At the moment ( @ Heritage Chicago ANA sale ) there
    is a key date Quarter, 1901-S, in a Genuine holder with
    AU Details on the insert. At least they got that assessment
    correct.
    Mike Hayes
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !

    New Barber Purchases
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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Inconsistency .. They are even more inconsistently inconsistent, especially when it comes to circulated Barbers ...

    I had an 1893 Barber Half about a year and a half ago that had full upper and lower bands above/below LIBERTY, wings 95% to the tips , all 13 stars struck up.. Sent it in expecting XF40; VF35 at worst... and the slab came back Cleaning - F Details (fine) .. However, when you put the slab in to the cert look up on the PCGS site, it showed it was Fair Details. And often the grade is way off; and sometimes the data entry even more so (The coin was not cleaned either ... But therein lies the opinion image )

    We buy opinions .. And often the opinions of the collector of his series are much more consistent as the collector is a series specialist vs. the graders who are jacks of all trades, masters of none

    Edit: Spelling >>



    I have to agree, the grading on Barbers stinks.


    I have seen full Liberty with VG grades -- granted a weak Liberty, but there.

    And 5 letters of Liberty with VG-08, 3 letters with G-06, etc.

    Very inconsistent.

    AU as a VF?

    just about the norm
    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    georgiacop50georgiacop50 Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have seen full Liberty with VG grades -- granted a weak Liberty, but there.

    And 5 letters of Liberty with VG-08, 3 letters with G-06, etc. >>



    I think the use of the number of letters of LIBERTY as sole determinate of Barber grades was abandoned by PCGS several yrs ago.


    And , yes, something is very much amiss with the OP's grade.
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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭
    VF seems harsh.
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