bruingirl2007 and fake racks: a closer look
summerof68
Posts: 748 ✭
Having recently revisited the boards I was contacted by a fellow member who contacted me and asked if he could send me a 1981 Topps Baseball rack with multiple HOF's on top that he purchased from bruingirl2007 on ebay. He told me there were members here who claimed her racks to be fake and he wanted to get my assessment. Feeling honored that a fellow member valued my opinion on such a matter it made it easy to say yes!
The rack arrived and I used my simple technique of removing the lamp shade and holding the rack up to the raw bulb. I first focused my eyes on the vertical seal that separated the two cells containing the HOF's and it took all of three seconds to see that there were two vertical seals overlapping each other. There was a thinner, barely discernible seal that was very straight. This was the original factory seal but when this seal had been opened it caused the edges and body of the seal to become faint and much less visible.
The second seal was roughly twice as wide as the thinner factory seal and because of its greater width it had covered approximately 75% of the original seal. The bogus seal left 25% of the faint original seal visible because the wider fake seal had a slight bow and as a result both ends of the fake seal gently crossed (over) and came to rest just below the original seal. And because of the slight bow at the center of the bad seal it rose ever so slightly and exposed the middle area of the thinner factory seal.
Also worth mentioning is the wider fake seal had two very subtle areas where inconsistent pressure was used during application. This caused two small smudges in the seal disrupting its outer edges. These smudges along with the bowing would indicate the instrument used to make the seal was hand controlled. The smudged edges occurred in the same manner in which smudges will occur in a signature that has been counterfeited. The signer when nervous will unintentionally apply unequal or interrupted pressure resulting in subtle smudging. Also on this rack the vertical seal furthest from the header experienced this same process and the heavily wrinkled cellophane surrounding this seal made the assessment more difficult . Had the individual had a steadier hand and produced a straighter line then the appearance of both seals would have been much more difficult to ascertain--to the naked eye.
Did bruingirl2007 reseal this rack? I don't know.
Did her father being the previous owner reseal this rack? I don't know
All I do know for sure is that the lower two factory vertical seals on this rack were opened and subsequently covered over by newly applied seals of a wider variety.
The rack arrived and I used my simple technique of removing the lamp shade and holding the rack up to the raw bulb. I first focused my eyes on the vertical seal that separated the two cells containing the HOF's and it took all of three seconds to see that there were two vertical seals overlapping each other. There was a thinner, barely discernible seal that was very straight. This was the original factory seal but when this seal had been opened it caused the edges and body of the seal to become faint and much less visible.
The second seal was roughly twice as wide as the thinner factory seal and because of its greater width it had covered approximately 75% of the original seal. The bogus seal left 25% of the faint original seal visible because the wider fake seal had a slight bow and as a result both ends of the fake seal gently crossed (over) and came to rest just below the original seal. And because of the slight bow at the center of the bad seal it rose ever so slightly and exposed the middle area of the thinner factory seal.
Also worth mentioning is the wider fake seal had two very subtle areas where inconsistent pressure was used during application. This caused two small smudges in the seal disrupting its outer edges. These smudges along with the bowing would indicate the instrument used to make the seal was hand controlled. The smudged edges occurred in the same manner in which smudges will occur in a signature that has been counterfeited. The signer when nervous will unintentionally apply unequal or interrupted pressure resulting in subtle smudging. Also on this rack the vertical seal furthest from the header experienced this same process and the heavily wrinkled cellophane surrounding this seal made the assessment more difficult . Had the individual had a steadier hand and produced a straighter line then the appearance of both seals would have been much more difficult to ascertain--to the naked eye.
Did bruingirl2007 reseal this rack? I don't know.
Did her father being the previous owner reseal this rack? I don't know
All I do know for sure is that the lower two factory vertical seals on this rack were opened and subsequently covered over by newly applied seals of a wider variety.
"You tell 'em I'm coming...and hell's coming with me"--Wyatt Earp
0
Comments
I believe Jim (vintagefun) also opened a few 77 wax packs he had bought from ths seller and the cards inside the pack were all mixed up and did not follow proper sequencing for a 1977 Topps baseball wax pack.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Thanks for sharing your rack knowledge and help educating us.
<< <i>As some know, I bought fake 77 box. Opened a few which had some nice condition stars. How do you know the sequence it's suppose to follow? I know the problem here is educating resealers. I don't think they care much about getting the sequence correct once they sold me the box. I already got ripped off. Oh well. Any info helps form the future. >>
The first seven cards in an authentic 77 wax pack (from the back seal to the gun) should be from the one * or no * sheets, while the last three cards of the 10-card pack should be cards from the two ** sheets.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
When a rack is too good to be true, it probably is.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>CSI has nothing on Don, LOL.. >>
I think he could have gone into a little more detail.
On second thought...
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>CSI has nothing on Don, LOL.. >>
No kidding!
Fascinating topic and analysis.
Website
Ebay Store
OOO-OH SAY can you see? LOL
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
P.S. by the way another infamous master pack fabricator who specialized on star topped cellos and was kicked off our boards has also chosen to cover his tracks and as of three months ago he abruptly and completely stopped leaving feedback for all his ebay purchases--be careful out there people!!!
<< <i>I think he could have gone into a little more detail.
Actually the observations I made in my original post was just a macro accounting of what I saw. For example every seal has its own unique properties which can be used to distinguish the maker of one seal from the maker of another.
In the case of this rack both the factory seal and the fabricator's seal had horizontal roller lines telling me the both seals were applied by a roller as opposed to being "pressed". And both sets of roller lines also told a story. The horizontal roller lines on the factory seal were thicker and more closely spaced that those of the fake seal. I considered bringing out my magnifying glass to get a real good look both seals so I could make a mental note of the unique characteristics of the seal used by the resealer. And if I chose to this would then enable me to determine if any other particular rack was resealed by the same person who made this rack.
I thought about it for a while and then I said the hell with it chose to do sit ups instead...
Thx for the help. U never fail to impress. You really should think of maybe writing articles for scd etc. Would be for some great intereting, educational reads. Have you thought of that?
<< <i>P.S. by the way another infamous master pack fabricator who specialized on star topped cellos and was kicked off our boards has also chosen to cover his tracks and as of three months ago he abruptly and completely stopped leaving feedback for all his ebay purchases--be careful out there people!!! >>
If you don't mind - who is this and what is their ebay ID(s)? Thank you for the heads up and all of the great info in this thread.
Nice to see you.
Thanx for sharing.
I always learn from you, Tim, Mike (CPA) e.g. on unopened stuff.
<< <i>Hiya Don
Nice to see you.
Thanx for sharing.
I always learn from you, Tim, Mike (CPA) e.g. on unopened stuff. >>
Thanks Stone and I consider it an honor to have my name mentioned with the likes of Tim and Mike!!
<< <i>
<< <i>P.S. by the way another infamous master pack fabricator who specialized on star topped cellos and was kicked off our boards has also chosen to cover his tracks and as of three months ago he abruptly and completely stopped leaving feedback for all his ebay purchases--be careful out there people!!! >>
If you don't mind - who is this and what is their ebay ID(s)? Thank you for the heads up and all of the great info in this thread. >>
For legal reasons and for agreements previously made I purposely omitted this person's ebay ID. Perhaps a fellow member will shoot you a PM.
James
Sandberg/Boggs pack
Ripken pack
<< <i> It appears her father must have taken his laptop with him to heaven and is still collecting! >>
He might be in the other place. . .
<< <i>Thank you for taking the time to explain how to tell that the packs are resealed. I have seen a lot of her/his/its auctions and have seen other threads about the listings on here. There is another Ebay seller that just sold an 84 football cello with a Marino rookie on top and bottom plus a few other double star cellos. They currently have an 82 Topps cello with Ripken on top and bottom and an 83 Topps cello with Sandberg and Boggs showing. Have you seen these listings? Any thoughts on them?
James
Sandberg/Boggs pack
Ripken pack >>
I would avoid any pack with same card on top AND bottom. The cards on bottom of a cello pack should be from opposite sheets than those on the top half rendering that possibility essentially nil.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i> It appears her father must have taken his laptop with him to heaven and is still collecting! >>
He might be in the other place. . . >>
Is there internet service down there?
James
<< <i>
<< <i>Thank you for taking the time to explain how to tell that the packs are resealed. I have seen a lot of her/his/its auctions and have seen other threads about the listings on here. There is another Ebay seller that just sold an 84 football cello with a Marino rookie on top and bottom plus a few other double star cellos. They currently have an 82 Topps cello with Ripken on top and bottom and an 83 Topps cello with Sandberg and Boggs showing. Have you seen these listings? Any thoughts on them?
James
Sandberg/Boggs pack
Ripken pack >>
I would avoid any pack with same card on top AND bottom. The cards on bottom of a cello pack should be from opposite sheets than those on the top half rendering that possibility essentially nil. >>
And of course Tim is right. And there's something else to consider with the Ripken cello. If you owned a genuinely authentic '82 Topps cello with Ripken's rookie showing on top and bottom would you be foolish enough to sell it raw? A simple trip to PSA would substantially increase the value of this cello. I know I wouldn't leave that much money on the table.
Your first line of defense is to use your common sense!
IT CAN'T BE A TRUE PLAYOFF UNLESS THE BIG TEN CHAMPIONS ARE INCLUDED
<< <i>And there's something else to consider with the Ripken cello. If you owned a genuinely authentic '82 Topps cello with Ripken's rookie showing on top and bottom would you be foolish enough to sell it raw? A simple trip to PSA would substantially increase the value of this cello. I know I wouldn't leave that much money on the table. >>
Very true. That said, there seems to have been many same star on top/bottom cello packs that have made it into a holder. Tim is right (of course) that once Topps went to a single series in 1974 there should be a completely different subset of cards above the gum as opposed to below the gum. -Doug