Location of The National

BLUEJAYWAY

Does anyone know how the sites for the big show are determined? Just wondering.

byronscott4ever

I thought it was dealer vote to determine city and then probably work with sites that might work?

Mickey71

I don't know; but I don't like it. I live on the west coast.

pdub1819

<< <i>I don't know; but I don't like it. I live on the west coast. >>



+1

am I wrong, or hasn't people said that the most successful National was in Anaheim?

Raulsmaster

It's in Cleveland fairly frequently, which I love being that I'm in Akron. That being said, it's a great venue and the turnout is monstrous every time I go so I'm not surprised that it comes here as often as it does.

skrezyna23

I thought the National rotated between Chicago and Cleveland every year?

skrezyna23

BellagioPokerKing

<< <i>I thought the National rotated between Chicago and Cleveland every year? >>



I don't know HOW the site is determined, But it does NOT, under any circumstances, just rotate between Cleveland and Chicago every year. The 1st National was in 1980 in Los Angeles. Cleveland didn't get it's 1st National until 1997. Since then, Cleveland has hosted in 2001, 2004, 2007, 2009. Returns this year, in 2014, but then we don't get another until 2018, and then 2020.

Rocke

alnavman

If my memory is correct there were Nationals in Atlantic City, Atlanta, Baltimore and I believe there was one if Texas but I don't remember which city.

basketballcollector

The National location is voted on by the dealers. In 2012, it was supposed to be in Cleveland, but Baltimore was the one time replacement for Cleveland for that year. The management for the Baltimore Convention Center is difficult to deal with, so Baltimore will not be a regular rotation. This year is Cleveland, of course and next year is Chicago. There was a vote for the 2016 National between Anaheim and Atlantic City. Many of the dealers voted Atlantic City (which won the vote) since they didn't want the west coast site. So Atlantic City is 2016. The short version is that the National will rotate between Chicago and Cleveland for the next 15 or so years with a NEW or DIFFERENT city on occasion every 3 or so years. Other cities such as St. louis, Kansas City, Dallas, Boston, and others have been mentioned as those on occasion cities.

Hope that helps.

orioles93

I liked when it was in baltimore. Nice easy 45 minute drive. If its not within fairly short driving distance, i wont go.

otwcards

The problem with the National is multi-fold. First, dealer travel trumps most since the dealers vote (although some wonder given the final results and after voting discussion). Second, the venue must have available blocks of hotels available as well as meeting space amd floor space requirements and allow certain logistics required by the National Board.

That being said, the National has many options that they refuse to explore. I think that they're comfortable with the Cleveland and Chicago venues, the ease in dealing with them and the familiarity that so many shows has given them. That is evident by the increase in repeating those two venues over the past decade plus.

There used to be a lot more rotation and flexibility in the old days. Atlantic City, Houston, St. Louis, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Anaheim, Arlington, TX, San Francisco, Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore, Detroit and Parsippany, NJ have all been host cities at some point.

The future holds the following:

2015 - Chicago, IL
2016 - Atlantic City NJ
2017 - Chicago, IL
2018 - Cleveland, OH

ldferg

Bring it to Nashville.

orioles93

Surprised Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are not talked about more as possible locations. Both would be great cities to host it on the east coast.

PM770

I am not a dealer, so all of this is second hand information from a dealer friend of mine. A significant majority of the dealers are NE or Midwest based, so he doubts that there will be many, if any, more west coast nationals. He said that he has had good shows in Anaheim, but the costs involved prevent too many of the dealers from wanting to go. Cleveland is extremely popular because of the ease of set-up. I guess they open the building up and you can pull your car or truck right up to your table to set up. That is why Cleveland keeps getting the show. He is surprised that Atlantic City keeps getting Nationals. He knows alot of dealers (him included), that sense too much of the money that should be at the show ends up on tables or in slot machines. He said he has never had a good Atlantic City show. He said that Atlanta and Houston were not real good shows for most dealers (he did ok), so he doesn't think that the South or Texas will get anymore either.

I know he wants the show to go to different places again - West Coast, Pacific NW, South, Texas, because it does not seem to be a true "National" if it is in Chicago and Cleveand every other year. As much as he likes it, being from the Cleveland area, he wants the show to go different places.

basketballcollector

Forgot to mention the reason Atlantic City was considered (vs Anaheim) in this last vote was because basically the National show promoters will pay next to nothing for the Atlantic City convention center for that National. I heard the 2003 National was horrible for dealers according to what most of the dealers honestly said. But, they were willing to try it again in 2016.

gemint

They should rename the National the Northeast/Midwest regional. The various Tri-Star shows are more of a National than this show is. Being on the West Coast, I haven't been to a National for 6-7 years. I guess they don't want our money.

BaltimoreYankee

Like Evan, I only went to the Baltimore show in 2012 because it was in my back yard. That being said, I really got back into the 'organized hobby' in 2011 (because I stumbled upon these boards) so will most likely make the trip to Atlantic City in 2016. Who knows? Maybe I get to complete the 1971 Topps Greatest Moments set at that show

PM770

<< <i>They should rename the National the Northeast/Midwest regional. >>



Sadly, this is true. Being from NE Ohio, I love having it here every 2-4 years but for it to be a true "National" show, they have to branch out a little more.

ThoseBackPages

H8TERS!!!!!

basketballcollector

Daniel - It's only a 5-6 hour drive to Cleveland. It's trivial. You should go.

Mickey71

Seattle has some folks with very deep pockets. There has never been a show of any size up here. I read one time that Seattle had 10,000 millionaires. It is one of the largest concentrations of rich folks on the planet. To my knowledge....PSA has never come to Washington.

hammered

<< <i>Seattle has some folks with very deep pockets. There has never been a show of any size up here. I read one time that Seattle had 10,000 millionaires. It is one of the largest concentrations of rich folks on the planet. To my knowledge....PSA has never come to Washington. >>



I have relatives in Washington so I would love this
But I would guess that the cost of shipping or carrying inventory all the way to WA for these east coast dealers would be prohibitive

bcubs

I really think it's a cost thing for many of the dealers. For those in the Midwest or North/Southeast it's a 1 day drive (sometimes a long one)and that helps keep costs down. A California or other west coast show would be 2-3 days travel each way for the majority of dealers. For most that would be a non-starter as the full timers could not afford to close down their operations that long and the part timers are probably not going to take the additional time off work. I'm sure the west coast would be good sales wise but would it be so good that it would justify the additional expense to dealers?

Raulsmaster

California has some monster shows on a fairly regular basis that us on the east coast most often never get a taste of so that somewhat balances it out

gemint

<< <i>California has some monster shows on a fairly regular basis that us on the east coast most often never get a taste of so that somewhat balances it out >>



Which shows would those be? I'm missing out!

bziddy

<< <i>

<< <i>California has some monster shows on a fairly regular basis that us on the east coast most often never get a taste of so that somewhat balances it out >>



Which shows would those be? I'm missing out! >>



+1

Where are they?

dytch2220

Planning to make the trip to Chicago next year. I have family there so it's a two-fer!

jmmiller777

Why no Dallas or Houston, some place different. This would benefit everyone.

PM770

<< <i>Why no Dallas or Houston, some place different. This would benefit everyone. >>



From what I understand, the Houston show in 1994 was terrible. Very poor turnout.

Mickey71

1994 was like the middle ages that was so long ago. They need to rotate the locations...plain and simple. They could pull off a great national in a number of cities.

jmmiller777

<< <i>

<< <i>Why no Dallas or Houston, some place different. This would benefit everyone. >>



From what I understand, the Houston show in 1994 was terrible. Very poor turnout. >>



Ya, but I wonder why there is no advertisment? None at all, it''s like the committee just wants to satisfy the same group of money. There is no interest in looking for new sites or new customers. Every year, it's just the same people exchanging the same money, same cards; a great rotation scheme at best. Even Scottsdale/Phoenix; a real baseball town would love to host something that near and dear. Las Vegas would be great as well. Surely there is at least an effort to land one of these sites. There are other places in Cali besides Anahiem that can host an event this big.

mknez

As long as these two conditions are met, the Chicago/Cleveland/occasional 3rd city rotation would be tough to break:

1. Enough dealers make money
2. The promoters make money

Nothing else really matters.

1954

Dallas/Houston area would be a very poor showing for the National. Apparently many dealers would have to travel too far for the show. Also the best shows are going to be in towns where baseball has a rich history. Houston and Dallas are horrible when it comes to baseball history. I would love to have the National in my backyard but they need to keep it in Cleveland, Chicago, St. Louis and Baltimore type of towns for the dealers sake.

basketballcollector

Like I alluded to, Baltimore would have either replaced Cleveland permanently or would have made the National rotation always Chicago-Cleveland-Baltimore, but the Batimore convention center management were not easy to work including not wanting to set the National in their facility a certain date years in advance. In other words, they like shows/conventions to decide at the last minute to be there. The National organizers need to set a location years in advance. It's possible, although not sure how likely, that Baltimore could be a late replacement for either Chicago or Cleveland sometime in the future.

robert67

.

otwcards

<< <i>I know it is unlikely the National would come to Nashville, but we do have a fantastic new convention center here. The place is awesome and could easily handle their requirements. >>



And it's easy to fly to Nashville if you don't mind 3 connecting flights in and out...

Logistics are more than just having a convention center. And what it really comes down to is the NSCC having to do the least amount of work while making the easiest return of profit. Nashville, Houston, Kansas City, Seattle, Boston, Orlando, San Diego are all of the mix because they aren't easy for the promoters and they don't afford the returns necessary.

Cleveland isn't really ideal, but the costs are right and since there really isn't anything next to the I-X Center, the built-in excuse of hotels and restaurants gets pushed aside. I loved the convenience of Baltimore and Chicago, which were basically RonCo-like . . . Park it and forget it. I hated Atlanta, Anaheim and even Atlantic City. Most of the others have been bearable because they were one-offs.

MikeyP

<< <i>The short version is that the National will rotate between Chicago and Cleveland for the next 15 or so years with a NEW or DIFFERENT city on occasion every 3 or so years. Other cities such as St. louis, Kansas City, Dallas, Boston, and others have been mentioned as those on occasion cities. >>



I do not believe that collectors and dealers would mind a rotation between Chicago and Cleveland, as long as the other host cities are located on the east and west coasts. Boston is the only one that would fit that description.

60sfan

<< <i>They should rename the National the Northeast/Midwest regional. The various Tri-Star shows are more of a National than this show is. Being on the West Coast, I haven't been to a National for 6-7 years. I guess they don't want our money. >>


Seems like there's an opportunity to start a "West Coast National" .........hold it about six months after The National (the weekend before the Super Bowl would be perfect).........location could alternate between San Francisco, LasVegas, Seattle and Los Angeles.

MikeyP

<< <i>Seems like there's an opportunity to start a "West Coast National" .........hold it about six months after The National (the weekend before the Super Bowl would be perfect).........location could alternate between San Francisco, LasVegas, Seattle and Los Angeles. >>



How about an East Coast National that alternates between Atlanta, Baltimore, Boston and New York City? They should at least rotate the three regions annually.

robert67

robert67

.

jeffcbay

Yeah I just can't understand why there are more collectors in the midwest than there are on the southern west coast...

SoCal


Midwest

AUPT

The Midwest "bias" is a holdover from the earliest years of the National. Three of the first four shows were in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, naturally drawing more Midwestern tableholders, who -- at least in the first 20+ years -- were the "voters" for future sites. Naturally they preferred to stick close to home.

Today it is all about where the promoters can get the cheapest floor space, thus maximizing their profits. Evidently the votes for future sites are tabulated by the same outfit that certifies national elections in Afghanistan.

cpamike

<< <i>The Midwest "bias" is a holdover from the earliest years of the National. Three of the first four shows were in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, naturally drawing more Midwestern tableholders, who -- at least in the first 20+ years -- were the "voters" for future sites. Naturally they preferred to stick close to home.

Today it is all about where the promoters can get the cheapest floor space, thus maximizing their profits. Evidently the votes for future sites are tabulated by the same outfit that certifies national elections in Afghanistan. >>



So what you are saying is they need a CPA to oversee the voting process like we do for all the important votes.

MikeyP

<< <i>Yeah I just can't understand why there are more collectors in the midwest than there are on the southern west coast... >>



I do not believe that the organizers consider that in their decision Jeff. I believe that they would simply rather have the event more centrally located. It is very unlikely that New York collectors would fly to California for a sports memorabilia convention.

Griffins

<< <i>The Midwest "bias" is a holdover from the earliest years of the National. Three of the first four shows were in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, naturally drawing more Midwestern tableholders, who -- at least in the first 20+ years -- were the "voters" for future sites. Naturally they preferred to stick close to home.

Today it is all about where the promoters can get the cheapest floor space, thus maximizing their profits. Evidently the votes for future sites are tabulated by the same outfit that certifies national elections in Afghanistan. >>



This.

jmoran19

<< <i>

<< <i>The Midwest "bias" is a holdover from the earliest years of the National. Three of the first four shows were in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, naturally drawing more Midwestern tableholders, who -- at least in the first 20+ years -- were the "voters" for future sites. Naturally they preferred to stick close to home.

Today it is all about where the promoters can get the cheapest floor space, thus maximizing their profits. Evidently the votes for future sites are tabulated by the same outfit that certifies national elections in Afghanistan. >>



So what you are saying is they need a CPA to oversee the voting process like we do for all the important votes. >>



Yes, including the ratio of unopened dealers to others. should be at least 3 to 1 ratio. Can i get a whoop whoop?

cpamike

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>The Midwest "bias" is a holdover from the earliest years of the National. Three of the first four shows were in Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis, naturally drawing more Midwestern tableholders, who -- at least in the first 20+ years -- were the "voters" for future sites. Naturally they preferred to stick close to home.

Today it is all about where the promoters can get the cheapest floor space, thus maximizing their profits. Evidently the votes for future sites are tabulated by the same outfit that certifies national elections in Afghanistan. >>



So what you are saying is they need a CPA to oversee the voting process like we do for all the important votes. >>



Yes, including the ratio of unopened dealers to others. should be at least 3 to 1 ratio. Can i get a whoop whoop? >>



Whoop whoop.

ChiefsFan1st

I agree with the centrally located crowd. Lets base this bad boy in Kansas City

(for the record, I have no bias in this matter )