My National Strategy

vintagefun

So it's my first National, and my first show in over 20 years. I'm only there Wednesday and Thursday. Though I'm not exhibiting, I will be there on an exhibitor pass hooked up through a friend who is dealing. Not sure if this in any way benefits me, hurts me, or makes zero difference.

I have a mostly fixed and reasonable budget for the show (approved by wife) and a large want list...not everything is coming home with me...not even close, but I thought it important to have some direction in the things I'm looking for, as it seems like it will be easy to get sidetracked.

I broke the budget into groups, Unopened 15%, Player Registries (Mays, Staubach, Kareem, Jim Brown) 40%, between 1-3 of about 10 HOF RCs 30%, Heritage Kershaw 2%, Misc 3% and Pre-War 10%+. I'd like to walk with one Pre-War but based on the ones I want I'll either need to adjust percents as I go, or pull from an unapproved budget, as I think it's gonna take another 10% for one of the ones I want.

I have already made a list of the many cards I'll be looking to acquire and made a small and organized cheat sheet of the VCP avg./high for the 2 grade range I'm interested in. This way I don't need to constantly be looking at my phone, and just the act of doing the homework will limit the times I even consult the sheet, hopefully giving the impression that I know what I'm doing.

Many of the cards I'm looking for are plentiful on eBay, so walking away should be pretty easy if I can't get my price point. Plus, the ability to hold in hand, have immediate negotiation on offers, and a little competition, I'm hoping proves beneficial.

I won't have the luxury of being there at the end of the show for the last chance deals, if they exist. So my intent is to try and buy early and often, which means I'll be looking to bundle for discounts in hopes of stretching the budget just a touch.

I considered trying to do a once around to get the lay of the land, before buying, but the size of floor seems intimidating, and I'm not sure how easy it will be to find places I want to get back to. Thoughts?

Also, it sounds like cash is king, so I intend to use my CC in any place that'll take it. Assuming BBCE is prepped for CC? Probably anyone with a retail store front?

To anyone who's been to one or several of these things, I'd appreciate any tips, tricks, or guidance. Is there good raw to be found? How do you price raw when offering vs. VCP? What about buying unopened not from BBCE? When buying pre-war, is there much difference between PSA and SGC? I see a lot of pre-war in SGC holders.

To anyone from Cleveland or who knows the area, I'm looking for a good steakhouse not too far from convention center.

Thanks in advance.
Jim

mrmint23

Comfortable shoes, shorts, backpack, water ,snacks...get a map of the floor before going(available on national website)..start in back of show where the mom and pop dealers will be eager to deal..dealer pass will get you in around 8am each day(huge benefit)... Meet up with others at the bbce booth...most of all Enjoy.

vintagefun

Thank You!

I don't know if that advice could be any more appreciated.

Just the type of info I was looking for.

See you guys at BBCE!

Jim

judgebuck

I've been to five or six Nationals, and the advice you just received is about all you need to know. I collect vintage baseball cards (pre-war through sixties), and I found that generally I could do better on eBay. But I was shopping for cards that were in plentiful supply. Enjoy the show and take in all the wonderful cards and memorabilia that you rarely see in person.

cpamike

Jim, I've used paypal with Steve at BBCE, but I'm not sure about CC. As far as other unopened, there will be some other dealers that have some but not anywhere near the volume as BBCE for vintage (1980's and prior).

I agree with Kirk about printing out a map of the convention center. Highlight the entrance and then any booths you run across that you want to return to later. Maybe color code it for different collecting focuses. If I don't see you Wednesday, I'll catch you on Thursday at the BBCE booth.

cincyredlegs

Hey Jim,

Hopefully we meet up on Thursday. Would be great to meet you. Here are my thoughts:

It is a huge place with a ton of stuff. I usually don't buy much the first day and spend it walking around and making notes of stuff I like. I used to blow my money (when I was a kid) at the first couple of tables and would miss out on other good stuff. Kirk is spot on with the map. Make notes on the table you see cards you are interested in. I didn't last year and Mike (Cpamike) spent 2 hours trying to find the table and never did.

If you are not comfortable spotting re-sealed un-opened, I would buy from Steve. He typically has the bulk of vintage. I have bought some stuff from Kruks with good results.

Pre-war; personally I like SGC over PSA. First, I think they grade more consistent. Second, I am not trying to flip or "retire" off putting the Monster together. I love 1000 times better the way tobacco cards look in the SGC holder. Just my personal preference. Plus you can get a discount vs PSA's slabs.

The National is intimidating and overwhelming. My plan is always to stick to finding the cards on my list, hang out with the boys from the forum at Steve's booth and try and meet new people.

Mark

Bosox1976

If you see something that fits your criteria, move quickly - it can sometimes be hard to find things again.

Take part in the BBCE meet-ups - was one of the highlights for me. Have the right storage system(s) - backpack? boxes? etc.

Don't be shy about talking to other hobbyists - ask if they have encountered things on your list, ask if they are looking for anything special, etc.

Take time to enjoy - it will go fast, but you will remember the people, the fun experiences, and the marvels more than you will recall endless searching through common or dollar bins.

Things easily bought on ebay are usually best bought on ebay.

Know that the dealers have pretty big overhead for this show - prices generally reflect that fact. The dealers will have amazing things, but not amazing deals. The best deals will be from other hobbyists.

Take 20 pictures per day on your phone - then post here at night. If you think it is cool, several others here will too.

Eat a big breakfast offsite, a light lunch (as the food is usually expensive and lousy at the site, then treat yourself to nice dinners.

Most of all, have fun.

otwcards

Vodka cures a lot of buyer's remorse. Vodka also makes it tougher getting to the show on time the next morning. Vodka gives and vodka takes. Some just don't take it so well...

Hallco

I have not been to the National, but I have been to large coin shows and the suggestions you are getting are great. Truth is, you will be in sensory overload at 1st, that's normal. Just take it all in and go with the flow. The best experiences I remember don't all involve purchases I made. Seeing "the hobby"(or business if you want to call it that) always leaves the biggest impact on me. Buy something you really want,rip a pack of something even if it's cheap and as stated above...take lots of pics! Enjoy yourself!

basketballcollector

Jim,

Since you're only there 2 days, you'll need to really move fast thru all the tables. It never works in bringing a want list. It's really difficult to stick to a list. You'll get sidetracked too easily wanting something not on your checklist. And, if you see something you might want, just buy it because it probably won't be there next time you stop by that dealer's table.

See you in Cleveland !!!

sportscardstop

Going around the show before buying isn't a bad idea. But if you spot something that you want that is fairly rare, I'd grab it. You don't want to regret waiting and missing out on it. Have fun out there. It will be an experience.

mattinglymint23

Good luck and enjoy the show. Can't make it this year as my cousin is getting married and I'm his best man. - still looking for my first national trip - most likely the AC show in 2016.
You got some great tips and from your op a gret head start.
Enjoy everyone.

ssollars

Lots of good advice here...

BBCE does take CCs at the show, I've used mine several times over the years!

No matter how much you plan and prepare for the show, its pure size and scope will inevitably throw a few curve-balls your way.

I try to go at least three days as I find when I'm so focused on my want lists I miss a lot of cool stuff. When the money runs out, just slow down and try to look at everything, it's an impossible task to see everything but it's amazing what is all there!

Scott

vintagefun

Thank you all. Some of the "little things" like shoes, snacks, water, map and pre-show breakfast may have been easily forgotten or overlooked. All now added to my list.

Also appreciate the input around prices and availability, unique items, and experience.

So what I'm hearing and totally in agreement with is: This is one of those bucket list things. Enjoy it and as a bucket list event, get an item to remember the experience. For me, this is the pre-war card. I want a Ruth, Cobb, or Gehrig as my souvenir and will re-allot budget.

Big lists are too rigid. Don't go wasting time trying to shop for an endless list of easily available items.

Why waste time looking for the best priced 58 Mays or 73 Staubach and worrying if there's not a better price elsewhere. Just let most of my Registry players either find me at the show, by being the right card at right price, or I'll find it on BST, eBay, or 4SC at a later date. I'll focus on the 2-3 that aren't so readily available.

Then, instead of going after the Aaron, Banks, Kaline, Seaver RCs, that are regularly available, I should focus on the couple 61F BK I've been looking for and the ever elusive 62 Ditka I've been wanting.

And finally, that I'm likely to stumble onto some items not on list that I'll want to add.

This has been super helpful and now I'm working down to a much smaller and reasonable list of items I'm actually looking to find at the show, so as to not feel overwhelmed in constantly "shopping" and negotiating. And can focus on enjoying the displays and collections, with just a few of my tougher to find wants to search for.

Great advice. I'm glad I asked. I'm even more stoked for the show now that my list is closer to: Unopened (BBCE) 20%, 5-7 key cards 50%, Misc 30%. So much more freedom.

Thanks again and looking forward to meeting as many of you as possible.

Jim

SidePocket

Great advice. I wish they'd have a National on the west coast again.

lostdart58

Wear jorts with a hawaiin shirt.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Great advice. I wish they'd have a National on the west coast again. >>


+1

RipublicaninMass

<< <i>

<< <i>Great advice. I wish they'd have a National in Atlantic City again. >>


+1 >>



Fixed

lostdart58

Steak house type restaurant close to National

LarkinCollector

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Great advice. I wish they'd have a National in Atlantic City again. >>


+1 >>



Fixed >>


That one's already scheduled, 2016.

1954

My plan was to always walk the floor on the first day and map out those places that had what I wanted to revisit the next day. My problem with this plan was two fold. One, I would get confused on where that one item was that I wanted and two, the item was gone the next day when I arrived. So I had to actually redo my plan after two years of screwing up. I now buy the item when I see it to avoid all the issues from above. It sounds that you have a great budget in mind so why not just buy it based on your budgeting?
In 1996 I had a budget of $1500 to spend at the Atlanta National. That Thursday I was walking around to purchase either older wax packs or get this, a couple of boxes of 1993 SP Football. Right around lunch time I ran into a dealer who had an unopened box of 1959 Fleer Three Stooges. I asked him how much for the box or a pack? He told me that the dealer wanted $400 for the box and was not going to sell by the pack. I foolishly did not buy the box because I wanted to walk the floor and see what items were still out there. I ended up spending around $700 on busting 1993 SP football trying to hit the Bledsoe that day. I was pretty sick that I had wasted my money on it so I decided to hit the table with the 1959 Fleer box the next day for $400. I got to the table early in the morning to buy that 1959 Fleer box and the dealer told me that the price was $400 per pack not $400 for the box. I said yesterday the guy told me that it was $400 for the box. He said yes he was watching my table and told you an incorrect price as he misunderstood the prices.
Bottom line was had I pulled the trigger right there I could have scored huge. Not that I wanted to rip the dealer off but I had no idea what the pricing for that box was back then and would have bought it without feeling like I had done something wrong. Buy when you see what you want and don't wait.

I hate having to carry anything with me when I walk the floor. I used to carry a brief case but got made fun of buy my friends so I moved to carrying a back pack. The backpack gave me the worst head ache and back aches throughout the whole show. I would love to use a fannypack this year but I am afraid no one will talk to me again if I do. So I might do a rolling, small sized suitcase this year.

lurkingnomore

"Things easily bought on ebay are usually best bought on ebay"

Totally agree with this earlier post when viewing the OP's question in terms of this being "The National".

Personally, I focus on things I want to buy that I rarely see. While I have an idea of what I want to (hope to) pay as Mike Tyson said "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the nose". If I see something I like as a buyer when I walk around the floor my first pass, I buy it, usally VCP be damned as many times one of "these" may not have been available for awhile.

As a seller, I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I should have bought it earlier today or yesterday" when they come back.

My humble advice is have a plan, but be willing to deviate if the card (s) speak to you....most of all, have fun!!!!


Al

alifaxwa2

<< <i>

I hate having to carry anything with me when I walk the floor. I used to carry a brief case but got made fun of buy my friends so I moved to carrying a back pack. The backpack gave me the worst head ache and back aches throughout the whole show. I would love to use a fannypack this year but I am afraid no one will talk to me again if I do. So I might do a rolling, small sized suitcase this year. >>


Stick with the backpack. Do you really want to navigate that crowd with a roller?

jmaciu

I love this thread. I was hoping to attend the Nationals this year, but my son's first week of kindergarden falls that time, and I would not miss that event for the world. So this year, I will live vicariously through Jim and the other members who are attending. Please post lots of pictures of your experiences.

1954

I think it is easier to roll a small suitcase weighing 20 pounds around than to have 20 pounds sitting on my back/neck as I walk through the convention center. I always end up sitting the backpack down between my legs when I get to a table. So the rolling idea is not a bad plan.

slum22

<< <i>

<< <i>Great advice. I wish they'd have a National on the west coast again. >>


+1 >>



+2

I don't think this will happen in the near future, but if not the National, how about at least a major card show at least.

slum22

<< <i>Wear jorts with a hawaiin shirt. >>



-1

Lol. With apologies to the jort and Hawaiian shirt wearing public. I'm sure he was joking (at least I was hoping).