Options
4SC and Pop Report
PMKAY
Posts: 1,372 ✭✭
I was looking browsing on 4SC website last night looking for some cards I need for a few registry sets I am working on. I noticed that for the cards I was looking at the POP report number they listed in the title of the listing was consistently off. Sometimes by just one or two but often by much more. One POP 5 PSA 10 was actually a POP 13. I sent them emails about a few of their cards and got this repsonse:
Thank you for the email. Population is determined at the time of pricing.
So I followed up with a comment that now that they know the new number should they not change the listing and possibly the price.
Their response:
Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, due to the high volume of cards we handle on a daily basis, it would be near impossible to go back and adjust the population of every card we have listed every time it changes.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
Thank you for the email. Population is determined at the time of pricing.
So I followed up with a comment that now that they know the new number should they not change the listing and possibly the price.
Their response:
Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, due to the high volume of cards we handle on a daily basis, it would be near impossible to go back and adjust the population of every card we have listed every time it changes.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
0
Comments
Can you imagine the time & effort for an inventory their size to keep updated by population!
I agree with ashabby, that's a plus that they answered back.
Also, if they did hire more bodies to do that work, it would probably show in a small increase of prices.
Now if they could do it electronically, say with a program attached to PSA's pop report, that might make a little more sense.
<< <i>When I buy from any avenue & am paying a premium for a low pop, I will always look it up myself. I feel that is my responsibility, not the sellers.
Can you imagine the time & effort for an inventory their size to keep updated by population!
I agree with ashabby, that's a plus that they answered back.
Also, if they did hire more bodies to do that work, it would probably show in a small increase of prices.
Now if they could do it electronically, say with a program attached to PSA's pop report, that might make a little more sense. >>
It's a plus that they answered back? Isn't that just common courtesy / good customer service? How about this, don't put the POP number in the listing.
<< <i>It's a plus that they answered back? Isn't that just common courtesy / good customer service? How about this, don't put the POP number in the listing. >>
This I have to agree with. I've noticed that looking at their feedback, lots of their negatives that they have received have stemmed from this very issue. Is it the buyer's responsibilty to do his due diligence and know what he's buying? Sure, especially a high dollar card. It gets a bit tedious though if you are buying say 40-50 cards at a rip and have to keep going back and forth from their website to the pop report. Me personally, if it's a card I need, I don't much care what the pop is, but I don't want to get charged pop 1 money if it's a pop 3. That's borderline scamming. I'm hoping at the end of the day, 4SC will work to resolve this issue.
<< <i> So I followed up with a comment that now that they know the new number should they not change the listing and possibly the price.
Their response:
Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, due to the high volume of cards we handle on a daily basis, it would be near impossible to go back and adjust the population of every card we have listed every time it changes >>
After awhile though, like I stated above, it almost comes off as dishonest. I spend A LOT of money with 4SC, and this issue hasn't effected me YET, but it might eventually. The simple answer would be don't buy from them, or do your due dilligence, but sometimes it would be nice to buy what you're actually buying without fear of misrepresentation. You would think after awhile, they may get sick of the negatives and may do something? I understand too that that would be a full time position for one to keep updating the pops.
<< <i>
<< <i>It's a plus that they answered back? Isn't that just common courtesy / good customer service? How about this, don't put the POP number in the listing. >>
This I have to agree with. I've noticed that looking at their feedback, lots of their negatives that they have received have stemmed from this very issue. Is it the buyer's responsibilty to do his due diligence and know what he's buying? Sure, especially a high dollar card. It gets a bit tedious though if you are buying say 40-50 cards at a rip and have to keep going back and forth from their website to the pop report. Me personally, if it's a card I need, I don't much care what the pop is, but I don't want to get charged pop 1 money if it's a pop 3. That's borderline scamming. I'm hoping at the end of the day, 4SC will work to resolve this issue.
<< <i> So I followed up with a comment that now that they know the new number should they not change the listing and possibly the price.
Their response:
Thank you for the response. Unfortunately, due to the high volume of cards we handle on a daily basis, it would be near impossible to go back and adjust the population of every card we have listed every time it changes >>
After awhile though, like I stated above, it almost comes off as dishonest. I spend A LOT of money with 4SC, and this issue hasn't effected me YET, but it might eventually. The simple answer would be don't buy from them, or do your due dilligence, but sometimes it would be nice to buy what you're actually buying without fear of misrepresentation. You would think after awhile, they may get sick of the negatives and may do something? I understand too that that would be a full time position for one to keep updating the pops. >>
I don't think it would be possible to keep up with the POP report but they know that when they are listing these items. I even see doubles of the exact same card same grade on their site with one stating it's a POP 2 and the other stating it's a POP 4. Truth is it's a POP 8. And to not take the time to correct it when it's pointed out to them? That is flat out wrong.
<< <i>I don't think it would be possible to keep up with the POP report but they know that when they are listing these items. I even see doubles of the exact same card same grade on their site with one stating it's a POP 2 and the other stating it's a POP 4. Truth is it's a POP 8. And to not take the time to correct it when it's pointed out to them? That is flat out wrong. >>
Yes it is especially if the cost of the POP 2 card is double the cost of the POP 4, if it's in reality an 8. Hey, I'm all for making money and maximizing profits, but what's right is right. Simple fix: No more POP number in the description. They could even say in their description space towards the bottom "please refer to PSA POP report for proper POP number." That would allieviate all doubt, and would probably save them a lot of future negative feedbacks.
<< <i>This has happened to me before as well. I resolved to look up the cards before I purchase going forward. Honestly, it doesn't have much bearing on the outcome for me. Often times 4SC has the best price. If I check their website the price is almost always a couple of bucks cheaper per card. If I buy more than $75, the shipping goes to zero. Add that all up and it's really hard to beat 4SC in the long run. So if I want to buy, they have the best price and I'm happy with that price, then I'm good. >>
I strongly agree!
<< <i>
<< <i>This has happened to me before as well. I resolved to look up the cards before I purchase going forward. Honestly, it doesn't have much bearing on the outcome for me. Often times 4SC has the best price. If I check their website the price is almost always a couple of bucks cheaper per card. If I buy more than $75, the shipping goes to zero. Add that all up and it's really hard to beat 4SC in the long run. So if I want to buy, they have the best price and I'm happy with that price, then I'm good. >>
I strongly agree! >>
That is why I use them well said.
<< <i>When I buy from any avenue & am paying a premium for a low pop, I will always look it up myself. I feel that is my responsibility, not the sellers.
Can you imagine the time & effort for an inventory their size to keep updated by population!
I agree with ashabby, that's a plus that they answered back.
Also, if they did hire more bodies to do that work, it would probably show in a small increase of prices.
Now if they could do it electronically, say with a program attached to PSA's pop report, that might make a little more sense. >>
The Pop information would almost always be accurate if they were selling with 7 day auctions........some of their BIN's are listed for months,
I use this when I'm buying any card on eBay or 4SC. However, I only do it when the card is something I need for the registry. Otherwise, it is not important to me. I can care less if they have a pop or not in the title. I still check myself.
<< <i>POP REPORT CHECK
I use this when I'm buying any card on eBay or 4SC. However, I only do it when the card is something I need for the registry. Otherwise, it is not important to me. I can care less if they have a pop or not in the title. I still check myself. >>
I didn't mean to imply that they should keep putting the POP number in the listing title then spend hours or more every day updating their 90000 listings. And you're right whether they state a POP number or they don't most potential buyers are going to check before buying. What I don't like is them putting it in knowing full well it's going to change as they are usually the ones subbing more cards to make it change. And what's worst is when they are told, they simply say they will not change it. I'm not looking at this from a selfish perspective. I double check and am not going to get fooled. I'm thinking of the people that will get fooled and I don't think that's right.
I don't care if they have 1 or 1,000,000 items up for sale.
Of course buyers should educate themselves before buying, but not everyone has access to the population report(s).
<< <i>I don't care if they have 1 or 1,000,000 items up for sale. >>
I think they have a responsibility to make sure it's correct at the time of listing, but not to troll all of their auctions trying to update listings in mid-auction as POP changes. I would prefer to pay a lower price for the card and look it up myself than to have the salary of who knows how many employees subsidized into my card purchases. That money has to come from somewhere...
<< <i>Of course buyers should educate themselves before buying, but not everyone has access to the population report(s). >>
How can a person be able to bid on eBay or use 4SC's website and not have access to a POP report? The cert verification tool provides POP in grade, POP w/ qualifiers and POP higher.
1. Ignore the POP listed in the title, and look it up manually
B. Report the listing to ebay for an inaccurate title or something like that.
3. Buy the item so that it doesn't get relisted again with the inaccurate title.
4. Stop buying from them altogether, as a matter of principle.
5. ??
------
stupid print dots
They can stay on top of their pops better, which would cost money, in return, the cost would be past to consumers making there competitive prices not so competitive. Or they can continue to do what they are doing and keep the prices low. If you feel they are seriously & purposely causing deceit, than don't but from them, but I really do not think that is the case. One thing that I am really surprised about are the comments regarding them being pricey. You can say a lot about them but pricey surely is not a valid statement, unless I am really out of touch.
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't care if they have 1 or 1,000,000 items up for sale. >>
I think they have a responsibility to make sure it's correct at the time of listing, but not to troll all of their auctions trying to update listings in mid-auction as POP changes. I would prefer to pay a lower price for the card and look it up myself than to have the salary of who knows how many employees subsidized into my card purchases. That money has to come from somewhere...
<< <i>Of course buyers should educate themselves before buying, but not everyone has access to the population report(s). >>
How can a person be able to bid on eBay or use 4SC's website and not have access to a POP report? The cert verification tool provides POP in grade, POP w/ qualifiers and POP higher. >>
Nice comment from 4SC "population is determined at the time of pricing" sorry boys (and girls) VALUE is decided at the time of sale and accurate information should be provided at that time.
The FACT of the matter is when the pop changes and they don't edit the listing, it plain and simple has become a LIE. Someone might be so incredibly stupid as to not understand that this completely incorrect statement claiming that this is not just a "rare" item, but a documented proven scarcity, and in their rush to buy it gets screwed. Yeah, no problem.
Honesty is honesty. A claim is being made that has become FALSE. It was true at one time, but it is NO LONGER TRUE! The value of these cards diminishes each time the population of that particular grade increases. Claiming it's fine because the statement was true at one time is moronic.
I hope you never get sick eating old food that someone didn't have the time to rotate, because it was fresh when it was first put in the cooler. Hey too bad buddy I didn't have time to throw out the bad stuff, don't you know I have LOTS of this for sale? If I have to hire somebody to do it prices will go up. Not my responsibility, it was fine when I first put it in there, read the expiration date. You couldn't find it? Didn't know about it? Wow how can anyone buy food without knowing about expiration dates? You DESERVE to get sick!
Some people do not even know about population reports, does this mean it's OK to deceive them?
When in doubt please TRY to do the right thing and not make excuses.
As I said this is an EASY ONE.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't care if they have 1 or 1,000,000 items up for sale. >>
I think they have a responsibility to make sure it's correct at the time of listing, but not to troll all of their auctions trying to update listings in mid-auction as POP changes. I would prefer to pay a lower price for the card and look it up myself than to have the salary of who knows how many employees subsidized into my card purchases. That money has to come from somewhere...
<< <i>Of course buyers should educate themselves before buying, but not everyone has access to the population report(s). >>
How can a person be able to bid on eBay or use 4SC's website and not have access to a POP report? The cert verification tool provides POP in grade, POP w/ qualifiers and POP higher. >>
Nice comment from 4SC "population is determined at the time of pricing" sorry boys (and girls) VALUE is decided at the time of sale and accurate information should be provided at that time.
The FACT of the matter is when the pop changes and they don't edit the listing, it plain and simple has become a LIE. Someone might be so incredibly stupid as to not understand that this completely incorrect statement claiming that this is not just a "rare" item, but a documented proven scarcity, and in their rush to buy it gets screwed. Yeah, no problem.
Honesty is honesty. A claim is being made that has become FALSE. It was true at one time, but it is NO LONGER TRUE! The value of these cards diminishes each time the population of that particular grade increases. Claiming it's fine because the statement was true at one time is moronic.
I hope you never get sick eating old food that someone didn't have the time to rotate, because it was fresh when it was first put in the cooler. Hey too bad buddy I didn't have time to throw out the bad stuff, don't you know I have LOTS of this for sale? If I have to hire somebody to do it prices will go up. Not my responsibility, it was fine when I first put it in there, read the expiration date. You couldn't find it? Didn't know about it? Wow how can anyone buy food without knowing about expiration dates? You DESERVE to get sick!
Some people do not even know about population reports, does this mean it's OK to deceive them?
When in doubt please TRY to do the right thing and not make excuses.
As I said this is an EASY ONE. >>
Joe, I certainly can see your point, BUT your comparison with food is terrible. I am sure you can come up with a better comparison to give your point more validation.
Not that 2 wrongs make a right, but let's remember that this practice is done quite often. Any auction that post a pop number has the possibility of the pop changing.
So should the seller go thru the pops of his auctions everyday to see if they have changed? I guarantee you that most sellers do not do this which basically makes this
an industry standard. There is a big difference between deceiving customers and practicing industry standards.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't care if they have 1 or 1,000,000 items up for sale. >>
I think they have a responsibility to make sure it's correct at the time of listing, but not to troll all of their auctions trying to update listings in mid-auction as POP changes. I would prefer to pay a lower price for the card and look it up myself than to have the salary of who knows how many employees subsidized into my card purchases. That money has to come from somewhere...
<< <i>Of course buyers should educate themselves before buying, but not everyone has access to the population report(s). >>
How can a person be able to bid on eBay or use 4SC's website and not have access to a POP report? The cert verification tool provides POP in grade, POP w/ qualifiers and POP higher. >>
Nice comment from 4SC "population is determined at the time of pricing" sorry boys (and girls) VALUE is decided at the time of sale and accurate information should be provided at that time.
The FACT of the matter is when the pop changes and they don't edit the listing, it plain and simple has become a LIE. Someone might be so incredibly stupid as to not understand that this completely incorrect statement claiming that this is not just a "rare" item, but a documented proven scarcity, and in their rush to buy it gets screwed. Yeah, no problem.
Honesty is honesty. A claim is being made that has become FALSE. It was true at one time, but it is NO LONGER TRUE! The value of these cards diminishes each time the population of that particular grade increases. Claiming it's fine because the statement was true at one time is moronic.
I hope you never get sick eating old food that someone didn't have the time to rotate, because it was fresh when it was first put in the cooler. Hey too bad buddy I didn't have time to throw out the bad stuff, don't you know I have LOTS of this for sale? If I have to hire somebody to do it prices will go up. Not my responsibility, it was fine when I first put it in there, read the expiration date. You couldn't find it? Didn't know about it? Wow how can anyone buy food without knowing about expiration dates? You DESERVE to get sick!
Some people do not even know about population reports, does this mean it's OK to deceive them?
When in doubt please TRY to do the right thing and not make excuses.
As I said this is an EASY ONE. >>
I kept my responses about the issue. You showed your true character by making it personal and calling me a moron. You're obviously very upset (I can tell by the peppering of caps lock in your response) that I disagree with you on this topic.
Your analogy is faulty. 4SC is not selling a perishable food item that is rotated on a timed/controlled basis. They are selling a collectible item whose population in grade at any given moment can change. This can't be planned for or controlled by them. In order for your analogy to work, the food on the shelf would just suddenly go bad at random intervals of time without indication. It would take about an army for 4SC to keep POPs updated on a daily basis or however often it is in your opinion that they should be checking every card in inventory. This is simply an unrealistic expectation. I think the same thing applies to Joe eBayer. I'm not really expecting a guy who has three PSA cards for sale to go check the POP report daily to make sure someone didn't grade another example since the time the card was listed. I can agree with you on this point at least: it would be nice if the POP on all auctions could be perfectly up-to-date. But it won't ever be that way, embrace it.
Intent really has a lot to do with whether or not a behavior was ethical. If 4SC was knowingly, intentionally stating the POP incorrectly at the time of listing that is one thing. And something I would not stand for. But listing what it was at the time the card went up and then failing to update due to the fact that it would require unreasonable resources is an entirely different matter. I'll give you a valid analogy. You are driving down the street and see the speed limit is 55 mph down road X. You later tell your friend when he asks "what is the speed limit on road X?" that the limit is 55 mph. Unbeknownst to you, an official comes along to change the sign because the city decided to lower the speed limit. You were unaware of the change. Your friend later travels 55 mph down road X thinking he is obeying the law but is stopped and ticketed for speeding. Did you deceive him? No. You unintentionally misinformed him. There were consequences, unfortunately. But your friend had an opportunity and really a responsibility to check the speed limit as he was driving down the road. Had he done so, he would have avoided the ticket.
In the end, this is very easy for me. 4SC is going to keep doing what they do and I'm going to keep buying from them without losing a minute of sleep.
-fin
<< <i>I'll give you a valid analogy. You are driving down the street and see the speed limit is 55 mph down road X. You later tell your friend when he asks "what is the speed limit on road X?" that the limit is 55 mph. Unbeknownst to you, an official comes along to change the sign because the city decided to lower the speed limit. You were unaware of the change. Your friend later travels 55 mph down road X thinking he is obeying the law but is stopped and ticketed for speeding. Did you deceive him? No. You unintentionally misinformed him. There were consequences, unfortunately. But your friend had an opportunity and really a responsibility to check the speed limit as he was driving down the road. Had he done so, he would have avoided the ticket. >>
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!!
Im no fan of 4SC, but, this is an open and shut case. IF they were accurate when they listed the card, end of story.
Sure I wish they would not list pop2, pop5 etc, but that is what it is. Now if someone would show proof that they
lied at the time of listing, im all ears
<< <i>
<< <i>I'll give you a valid analogy. You are driving down the street and see the speed limit is 55 mph down road X. You later tell your friend when he asks "what is the speed limit on road X?" that the limit is 55 mph. Unbeknownst to you, an official comes along to change the sign because the city decided to lower the speed limit. You were unaware of the change. Your friend later travels 55 mph down road X thinking he is obeying the law but is stopped and ticketed for speeding. Did you deceive him? No. You unintentionally misinformed him. There were consequences, unfortunately. But your friend had an opportunity and really a responsibility to check the speed limit as he was driving down the road. Had he done so, he would have avoided the ticket. >>
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner!!
Im no fan of 4SC, but, this is an open and shut case. IF they were accurate when they listed the card, end of story.
Sure I wish they would not list pop2, pop5 etc, but that is what it is. Now if someone would show proof that they
lied at the time of listing, im all ears >>
Much better analogy than the food one. Like I have said before we can agree to disagree. I like 4sc. It is not perfect. But I find a lot of what I want at prices I am willing to pay. I never understanding if you don't like something just don't use them.
I realized the food comparison was going to get objections. The point was, that as time went by the value of the product diminished, while the sellers advertised proof of his item's value remained the same. The analogy is not faulty at all in that respect. The speed limit analogy is much worse as pops are constantly changing, just as speed limits change as you are going down the road. When the speed limit changes there's a notification clearly posted, he/she doesn't have to search a report on speed limit changes to discover that limits have changed.
It doesn't change right from wrong.
Anyone with a knowledge of sales and ethics should know this. You can justify their behavior with excuses, but the bottom line is the seller is listing items that he is reasonably certain the specific feature that makes his item more valuable will probably be incorrect (in sellers favor) by the time it sells.
Industry standards? If this is an industry standard I am saddened. This is exactly why regulations are so rampant in today's world.
As someone said earlier, if we were discussing a 7 day auction, that's one thing, however when these items are listed for longer periods of time, the seller knows there is a huge possibility that the pop will change. I certainly see this as intent.
I agree that most sellers on ebay, not just 4SC, will continue to practice this "industry standard" as long as it benefits them. As an informed buyer, I will purchase from them if I feel there is value.
Two wrongs certainly do not make a right.
This is not a gigantic issue, however the OP brings up a valid point and I agree with him.
Have fun collecting!
P.S. I wonder what 4SC would do if they found out that their item's listing was incorrect the other way, had for some reason gotten more scarce/valuable. I'll bet they would have the time to adjust the auctions, no matter how many.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't care if they have 1 or 1,000,000 items up for sale. >>
I think they have a responsibility to make sure it's correct at the time of listing, but not to troll all of their auctions trying to update listings in mid-auction as POP changes. I would prefer to pay a lower price for the card and look it up myself than to have the salary of who knows how many employees subsidized into my card purchases. That money has to come from somewhere...
<< <i>Of course buyers should educate themselves before buying, but not everyone has access to the population report(s). >>
How can a person be able to bid on eBay or use 4SC's website and not have access to a POP report? The cert verification tool provides POP in grade, POP w/ qualifiers and POP higher. >>
Nice comment from 4SC "population is determined at the time of pricing" sorry boys (and girls) VALUE is decided at the time of sale and accurate information should be provided at that time.
The FACT of the matter is when the pop changes and they don't edit the listing, it plain and simple has become a LIE. Someone might be so incredibly stupid as to not understand that this completely incorrect statement claiming that this is not just a "rare" item, but a documented proven scarcity, and in their rush to buy it gets screwed. Yeah, no problem.
Honesty is honesty. A claim is being made that has become FALSE. It was true at one time, but it is NO LONGER TRUE! The value of these cards diminishes each time the population of that particular grade increases. Claiming it's fine because the statement was true at one time is moronic.
I hope you never get sick eating old food that someone didn't have the time to rotate, because it was fresh when it was first put in the cooler. Hey too bad buddy I didn't have time to throw out the bad stuff, don't you know I have LOTS of this for sale? If I have to hire somebody to do it prices will go up. Not my responsibility, it was fine when I first put it in there, read the expiration date. You couldn't find it? Didn't know about it? Wow how can anyone buy food without knowing about expiration dates? You DESERVE to get sick!
Some people do not even know about population reports, does this mean it's OK to deceive them?
When in doubt please TRY to do the right thing and not make excuses.
As I said this is an EASY ONE. >>
Joe, I certainly can see your point, BUT your comparison with food is terrible. I am sure you can come up with a better comparison to give your point more validation.
Not that 2 wrongs make a right, but let's remember that this practice is done quite often. Any auction that post a pop number has the possibility of the pop changing.
So should the seller go thru the pops of his auctions everyday to see if they have changed? I guarantee you that most sellers do not do this which basically makes this
an industry standard. There is a big difference between deceiving customers and practicing industry standards. >>
It would have taken them about 10 more seconds to adjust to the proper POP number in their listing than it did for them to reply to my email saying they were not going to change it.
Here is an example of seller who doesn't have 10,000 items listed, only a handful but his pop report info is incorrect. And this seller has re-listed this same card at least 4 times in the last few months. Saying a card is pop 1 when it's actually a pop 3 is a lot more egregious of an act than what 4SC does.
~WalterSobchak
4 corners doesn't have any auctions........ They only have BIN listings, many of which go on for 9 months.
P.S. I wonder what 4SC would do if they found out that their item's listing was incorrect the other way, had for some reason gotten more scarce/valuable. I'll bet they would have the time to adjust the auctions, no matter how many. >>
Joe, this is a very interesting point. If the tables were reversed & they did change the pop listed, I would certainly alter my opinion of them.
But for an issue that is an "EASY ONE", the majority seems to think this is not an intentional scam but more of a logistics problem, just not feasible to check so many listings.
<< <i>P.S. I wonder what 4SC would do if they found out that their item's listing was incorrect the other way, had for some reason gotten more scarce/valuable. I'll bet they would have the time to adjust the auctions, no matter how many. >>
Joe, this is a very interesting point. If the tables were reversed & they did change the pop listed, I would certainly alter my opinion of them.
But for an issue that is an "EASY ONE", the majority seems to think this is not an intentional scam but more of a logistics problem, just not feasible to check so many listings. >>
I just don't feel that having a large number of listings changes anything. Yes it would take time to update the items, but if they have time to list them, they should have time to edit them.
For me, it's simply a right vs. wrong question. If you find out the facts have changed you should be responsible to indicate it in your listings. Do I realize it probably won't get done? Yes, as it will cost the seller both time and also probably a drop in what a potential buyer is willing to pay. Doesn't change the fact that the listing has become incorrect. It's usually difficult to do the "right" thing.
In fact I believe there is a law that covers advertising saying that if you claim your item is new and/or improved you must prove it. Again not a perfect analogy, but to me the spirit says "be accurate in your description" not deceptive.
Not that the POP Report should mean much of anything at all. It is not a "Population Report" is is actually a "Graded Report"
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>I don't know about their website prices but I do know their prices on ebay drop every so often. I've been watching about ten of their ebay listings for the last four months and each one has dropped in price four or five times. >>
I think that their website prices go down as time goes by as well. Website prices are lower than ebay prices due to ebay fees.
I also think that as more time goes by they are constantly getting cards graded (are they busting packs??) making the POP report increase and also making the cards less valuable, since a PSA 10 POP 1, would be worth more than a PSA 10 POP 10.
I also notice that most of their new listings have new cert numbers on them.