Indian Cent Collection Questions

johnny54321

So, I have been working hard on putting together a nice DANSCO IHC collection. My basic requirements are 1891-1909 must be AU+ or at least have noticeable cartwheel luster. Everything earlier must be VF-30+ and have full liberty's. Now I'd think full liberty kind of comes with the territory at that grade, but have been shocked at how many IHCs in the 70s don't make the cut, even at the XF40 level. Here is an example of an XF40 1871 NGC XF40 w no full liberty. Is this coin overgraded, or am I just setting my bar too high as to expect high end VFs and XFs to have full liberty's? Is this coin just weakly struck? Or do you think there is an overgrading trend for early Indians?

rhedden

Indian cent grading standards have deteriorated quite a bit during the past two decades. This coin is an extreme case. It would not even make VF20 back in the 1990s when I learned how to grade. I would never buy a coin like this one as XF40, with large, flat areas on the devices. It's sad to see.

Unknown

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SAM5969

Just remember one of the most basic themes in coin collecting: If you don't like it much now; you never will and in time will grow to dislike it more and more

My experience tells me when I am hesitant about a coin or on the fence, I always end up disliking it and replacing it which ultimately costs more time and money

I would steer clear and remain patient - Rhedden is absolutely right - the coin is barely VF - striking issues et.al. aside, the coin is pathetic at XF40

lkeigwin

I always thought full LIBERTY was required for XF, not VF necessarily.

That 1871 appears overgraded. Not crazy about its eye appeal either. Maybe it's the photos.
Lance.

au58

Here is the description for Fine from my version of Photograde (designated by ANA in 1972 as an Official Grading Guide):

FINE (F-12): Obverse. A full "LIBERTY" will be visible but it will not be sharp.

That's why they're called the good ole days.

EagleEye

I think overall it should have graded VF-20, even though the LIBERTY is not full and the lower band is indistinct. The overall detail is better than a Fine.

Grading this an XF is a travesty. The grading services do no one any favors by overgrading. It only lowers the values of all the coins in that grade.

The Fly-In club maintains standards that do not change. An XF should have separation between the lower hair curl and the lower ribbon. An XF-45 should have full diamonds. The standards for Fine is all letters of LIBERTY visible, some partially, but as I stated ear;lier, this has overall detail that is better than Fine, so it is an exception.

Walkerguy21D

I agree with the overgrade calls being made.
Beyond deteriorating grading standards, I wonder if it got a bump for being a strong semikey date.....I suspect a 1905 cent with this
detail would garner an XF grade.

Mowgli

<< <i>The Fly-In club maintains standards that do not change. An XF should have separation between the lower hair curl and the lower ribbon. An XF-45 should have full diamonds. The standards for Fine is all letters of LIBERTY visible, some partially, but as I stated ear;lier, this has overall detail that is better than Fine, so it is an exception. >>



Not sure if I am correct, but aren't there MS IHCs without full diamonds? I thought the die deterioration left us with a lot of MS coins that didn't have four diamonds - am I incorrect?

Type2

I think most look for full diamonds the same way they look for full bell, full head, Full Liberty in Barber or full steps in Jeffersons or full bands in Merc's the better you can find = the better off you will be. and yes it's over graded keep looking.