What do pawn shop typically pay for gold and silver coins?
stevepk
Posts: 238 ✭✭✭
I acknowledge pawn shops do not take into consideration numismatic value when buying gold or silver coins. A typical pawn broker could not care less whether someone brings in a 1921-D walking liberty half dollar in a PCGS MS66 CAC holder or a raw 1944 walking liberty half dollar in Good condition. It's all the same to the pawn shop. With that being said, the pawn shop is not the best place to sell a coin collection. In fact, it's probably one of the worst places to sell a coin collection. There may be a few exceptions, but they are few and far between.
Suppose I grow old, never sell my collection, and leave my collection to a niece or grandchild with no interest in coins who is financially desperate. Not that I see this ever happening, but I cannot predict what will happen 50 or 60 years from now.
If a coin collection is taken into a pawn shop, what percentage of spot do pawn brokers typically pay? I was once told 40% of melt for silver and 50% of melt for gold in a small town where there was not much competition. Is this about the industry average? Since the coins are not stamped with a karat measure, are pawn brokers known to convince sellers their 90% silver or gold coins are less than 90% and try to pay less accordingly?
I'm just curious what the worst case scenario is if someone happens to get ahold of my collection someday who is in no position to intelligently sell a collection. As a collector, it is important to plan a liquidation. If leaving the collection to an heir, it is important to share purchase receipts along with a 101 crash-course in proper liquidation. If I don't plan accordingly, how severe is the penalty?
Suppose I grow old, never sell my collection, and leave my collection to a niece or grandchild with no interest in coins who is financially desperate. Not that I see this ever happening, but I cannot predict what will happen 50 or 60 years from now.
If a coin collection is taken into a pawn shop, what percentage of spot do pawn brokers typically pay? I was once told 40% of melt for silver and 50% of melt for gold in a small town where there was not much competition. Is this about the industry average? Since the coins are not stamped with a karat measure, are pawn brokers known to convince sellers their 90% silver or gold coins are less than 90% and try to pay less accordingly?
I'm just curious what the worst case scenario is if someone happens to get ahold of my collection someday who is in no position to intelligently sell a collection. As a collector, it is important to plan a liquidation. If leaving the collection to an heir, it is important to share purchase receipts along with a 101 crash-course in proper liquidation. If I don't plan accordingly, how severe is the penalty?
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bob
<< <i>I'm just curious what the worst case scenario is if someone happens to get ahold of my collection someday who is in no position to intelligently sell a collection. >>
The worst case scenario is that they spend it, thus recouping only face value.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I'm just curious what the worst case scenario is if someone happens to get ahold of my collection someday who is in no position to intelligently sell a collection. >>
The worst case scenario is that they spend it, thus recouping only face value. >>
I think the bulk of my collection would be difficult to spend. Try handing over a double eagle for payment of twenty dollars at Wal-Mart and look at the confused look on the cashier's face followed by a rejection. The same applies for just about any gold coin, silver dollar, odd denomination, or even a half dollar. Suppose the seller knows the coins are special somehow and trusts that pawnbrokers have no desire to take advantage of anyone. I think most people acknowledge the fact that old coins can be worth more than face value. A non-collector in financial desperation would most likely rush to the nearest pawn shop to sell inherited coins. This is the most realistic worst-case scenario.
Suppose I grow old, never sell my collection, and leave my collection to a niece or grandchild with no interest in coins who is financially desperate. Not that I see this ever happening, but I cannot predict what will happen 50 or 60 years from now.
If a coin collection is taken into a pawn shop, what percentage of spot do pawn brokers typically pay? I was once told 40% of melt for silver and 50% of melt for gold in a small town where there was not much competition. Is this about the industry average? Since the coins are not stamped with a karat measure, are pawn brokers known to convince sellers their 90% silver or gold coins are less than 90% and try to pay less accordingly?
I'm just curious what the worst case scenario is if someone happens to get ahold of my collection someday who is in no position to intelligently sell a collection. As a collector, it is important to plan a liquidation. If leaving the collection to an heir, it is important to share purchase receipts along with a 101 crash-course in proper liquidation. If I don't plan accordingly, how severe is the penalty?
as the old saying goes, when you break down the word assume you make an a** out of u and me. so it is with your post, too much generalization. I work in a Pawn Shop and none of what you state is close to the way we operate. to answer the question of What do pawn shop typically pay for gold and silver coins? I can only speak for our store and say that it's currently $2.50+ on a 40% Kennedy and 15+ times face with 90%. Canadian and foreign Silver is paid at melt depending on yield. with Gold coins such as 20 Franc or a 20 Corona we pay $5-$10 back of melt, with US Gold we pay off the GreySheet bid side or melt for anything less than XF. for K-rands, Maples and AGE's we pay past melt when we buy. on Numismatic we typically buy 20-25 back of bid but we sell at bid to a walk in, a little less if we know you and better still if we like you!! dealers generally buy from us at 20 back of bid.
make your own decision but you should have a good thing going with some dealer and have your heirs prepared to go to him.
I do enjoy browsing pawn shops for non-numismatic items and on occasion will find coins in pawn shops. When I do, I have plenty of questions that cannot be answered by the pawn broker. My assessment was that they knew nothing about coins and pulled a number from thin air when deciding on a resale price.
I am glad to see someone with pawn experience replying to my post. I was hoping for it.
Having to sell merchandise entails risk that the merchandise will decline in value during the period they hold it. Some items also can be damaged, or, in the case of electronics, may not work right in the first place.
Overhead in pawn shops can be considerable. Think about how much it costs to run the pawn shop in "Hard Core Pawn", which is only about seven miles from where I live. (It is a real pawn shop.)
<< <i>...
If a coin collection is taken into a pawn shop, what percentage of spot do pawn brokers typically pay? I was once told 40% of melt for silver and 50% of melt for gold in a small town where there was not much competition. Is this about the industry average? Since the coins are not stamped with a karat measure, are pawn brokers known to convince sellers their 90% silver or gold coins are less than 90% and try to pay less accordingly?
... If I don't plan accordingly, how severe is the penalty? >>
You pretty much answered your own question. The question is will you care when you are dead? Pawn shops often work on 200% for typical items (they sell for triple what they pay) so 33% of melt would not be out of line for bullion. Some small town bullion buyers said their competition sometimes offered half of their offer. Collectable coins? Very low. 10 cents on the dollar would not be unusual, so a $1000 value numismatic coin might get a $100 offer. Rightly or wrongly, pawn shops and hotel room buyers, are often seen as cousins in terms of low ball offering prices. Some reports on the forum have hotel room buyers sometimes offering 25% of melt value.
More than a few dealers (of all kinds) size up their marks. If the seller seems to know nothing, and seems anxious to unload, a low ball offer is the expected out come. And by low ball, I don't mean what an average honest local coin dealer might offer. The honest local dealer might offer 50% of retail value for numismatic coins ($1000 retail value coin gets a $500 offer). That is close to fair, because they are going to wholesale the coin and might get $700 or so from the wholesale buyer. The skunk might offer $100 on the $1000 value coin. Some may even brag about how ethical they are, and point to the sign that says "sell your coins here. top dollar paid". Skunks are skunks and will say and do almost anything, and may even come on to public forums to do a song and dance. In person, when the seller seems stupid and motivated, the reality gets a lot harsher. There is no way to test the skunks. Most that get taken, don't know they are getting taken. As one person put it, as long as they give a warm "hello" and a warm "thank you for your business," they get counted among the good dealers.
If a person cares, best to leave detailed instructions about younger dealers or auction houses, or sell the coins before you lose your abilities. Most heirs have a thousand other things to take care of. A coin collection can be yet another unwelcome burden to non-collectors. It is scary. Think about inheriting a collection you know nothing about, and have no idea how to sell, and have no interest in keeping? Without detailed instructions, including dealer and/or auction house contacts, it can be a mouse maze with a lot of exits guarded by aggressive cats. Even with instructions, it can be a major burden for grieving relatives often overloaded with tasks related to the death.
can't be more than 70% or so as they will quickly go out of business paying any more.
<< <i>For a shop with reasonable overhead and "ok" volumes, payouts on gold scrap
can't be more than 70% or so as they will quickly go out of business paying any more. >>
That's a fair enough number. It can go higher but if it goes much lower, please call around. Also, a lot of people get confused with this number when some guys say they pay 98%. The refiner doesn't even pay that.
<< <i>Pawn shops are far more interested in pawn transactions than they are in outright purchases. Most pawns are redeemed and the interest they earn is considerable.
Having to sell merchandise entails risk that the merchandise will decline in value during the period they hold it. Some items also can be damaged, or, in the case of electronics, may not work right in the first place.
Overhead in pawn shops can be considerable. Think about how much it costs to run the pawn shop in "Hard Core Pawn", which is only about seven miles from where I live. (It is a real pawn shop.) >>
Are they as much as jerks in real life as they portray themselves on TV?
I watch it occasionally, when nothing else is on that is interesting, and the daughter just makes me want to puke with her attitude and voice.
Les can be somewhat funny, at times.
The son.... well, I hope his is that of a character on TV as he seems to have issues.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I sent a co-worker to a pawn shop to test the buy waters. They offered her $200 for a roll of common date, honest circulation Morgans, no culls. I went in after work and the owner was selling similar examples for $25-$27. >>
That's a rip. I sure hope she didn't sell on your recommendation.
with coins and PM's our set-up allows us to pay differently than most operations, but we typically price off live spot which is displayed on 50" screens in the store so customers know what's going on. an educated customer is better than an ignorant one so we do our best to help them out.
She didn't sell just feeling the place out. Now I know the owner is looking to make 150% + or - on average circ Morgans.
<< <i><<That's a rip. I sure hope she didn't sell on your recommendation>>
She didn't sell just feeling the place out. Now I know the owner is looking to make 150% + or - on average circ Morgans. >>
Marking something up 100% and making 100% aren't quite the same thing.
I watched many deals walk in, I was surprised at how fair they were and how much time they put into looking through the stuff. I saw them pay up for nicer coins when the seller brought them in with a pile of common coins. I did get the feeling that the way people brought stuff had some effect, if they brought piles of stuff they couldn't go through each piece but if it was manageable and organized they probably did better. I also saw sellers that rushed them when they were willing to look for better stuff if the customer was more patient, probably reduced what they got.
Overall I was always impressed by how fair they were and how the guys there knew about any odd stuff that walked in the door, stuff like ceramics, paintings, cards, jewelry, whatever it was it seemed like one of the guys knew what it was.
The typical pawn broker has,at the least,basic knowledge about numismatics,IMO.Of course,a 1921-D WLH in PCGS MS66 CAC is a major rarity.The pawn broker might act,on seeing a coin like this,that "he could care less," but typically,that's all it would be,an act.
Is it a fact that 99.9% of pawn brokers would be unable to buy a '21-D 66CAC because of the huge amount of money it would take to acquire it even though the asking price might be quite reasonable?
It would be fun to take a coin like this around to a few pawn shops to see how much they would be willing to pay for it.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
When dealing with selling coins to a pawn shop one thing that should warn you away is if they are buying coins but don't have any for sale.
Their business model would be harmed if they had a case with coins for sale that a buyer could see the spread so they sell what they buy out of view of potential marks.
They often have a central store somewhere else and several small closet sized feeder stores that do the buying at rock bottom prices. They look like they just moved in last week .
<< <i>Also, a lot of people get confused with this number when some guys say they pay 98%. The refiner doesn't even pay that. >>
You are correct.
Refiners pay 98% on ASSAY. Assays of marked 14k jewelry generally work out to be 13.2k/13.4k - when calculated is 92.1% to 93.8% payout. And all of this depends on if you have a "trustworthy" refiner.
10k is the worst. Never near 10k. Usually 9k to 9.3k.
Like I said before - the dealer doesn't work for free. If he pays more than 70% with so-so volumes, he will be out of business within his lease term.
The example earlier in the thread regarding a roll of common circ Morgans, at $200 for the roll, I agree is very low. However, the $25-$27 price quoted is not realistic in wholesale channels. If they are VG-VF coins, wholesalers want to acquire at $22 per coin, which means a fair price would be $19-$20. However, even wholesalers are tough - they are calling nice clean Morgans culls..... and want to buy them at $16-$18 each, which is why I suspect an unknowledgeable pawn shop buyer pays $10.
<< <i>Their business model would be harmed if they had a case with coins for sale that a buyer could see the spread so they sell what they buy out of view of potential marks. >>
Not necessarily true. I know a few pawn shop owners that purposely display only a small quantity of low value coins for security reasons. Also, most have a required holding period of 5-15 business days, and sometimes longer. If the item is given on loan, it cant be in the case for sale.
Additionally, some people just show up scouring cases to make claims of items being "theirs"..... "stolen from their house yesterday". In some unfortunate instances this results in the local authorities seizing the items for a long period of time until the claim is worked out.
IMO, if the buyer fairly assesses the coins, tells the customer what they have in full disclosure, makes a fair offer (where he has to be given his risk factors), then its all above board.
The customer does not have to accept the offer if it seems too low.
What I don't like are guys who advertise paying well on coins, and when you get there "trash your collection", telling you there is nothing rare...but pay you 15.1x on your 90% merc book that contains a nice genuine VG 16-d........
If someone is so stupid that they consider a pawn shop full of guitars and cameras as the "standard" then they deserve the same treatment as they would get taking their car to a junk yard for repairs.
I HAD A PAWN/COIN SHOP!
We MADE A MARKET in bullion and had hundreds of ounces of gold bullion coins IN STOCK!
Thousands of ounces of silver.
Full rotating numismatic inventory and I ....competed..... to get nice stuff.
I pawned some fabulous coins and made good money off the interest.
So...... if you have to post about "pawn shops" then post about the ones who are also REAL COIN DEALERS!
The phone book ads should guide even the stupidest cretin to which ....pawn shop.... is paying REAL prices.
Taking it a bit further, those phone books have numbers in them that can be dialed for a bullion quote.
If you get a "huh?" then you called the wrong place.
I know this is futile to mention so often but pawn shops are as varied as any other business and they DO attract rippers.
A phone call SHOULD identify them.
Jeez.
<< <i>So...... if you have to post about "pawn shops" then post about the ones who are also REAL COIN DEALERS! >>
Some people get agitated over the trivial things.
First of all, the majority of PAWN SHOPS are not coin dealers. YOU may have been the exception, and if you were in the business, you would know this - I wouldn't have to say it
You are also assuming other members who post here are not in the business....not so.
Phone calls don't identify the bad ones, as all of them say they pay the best prices for coins and know numismatics very well.
The worst are those that advertise in this manner and when you arrive at their establishment, you are met with a slimeball who wouldn't know coins/keys/semi keys from scrap silver. Everything to them is scrap.
The only way I know to avoid a low-balling coin or pawn dealer is to have a sharp dealer or seasoned collector at your disposal. Unfortunately, >95% of the untrained coin selling public has no access to such help. The most
reputable B&M coin shop in my state (at least that I am aware of) is usually pretty darn fair. And even they at times have low-balled on big dollar deals (ie 25% offers on significant rarities valued over $20K each). So if you're
coming to my state, caveat emptor....it's been this way since the early 1970's. The only thing you can be sure of is that the coin or pawn dealer will try to acquire your coins as cheaply as they can. The clues you give off upon
entering the store will tell them how to proceed. It's all justified under the "trying to make a living clause."
Repetition of ignorance is ignorance raised to the power two.
BHNC #203
<< <i>
<< <i>So...... if you have to post about "pawn shops" then post about the ones who are also REAL COIN DEALERS! >>
Some people get agitated over the trivial things.
First of all, the majority of PAWN SHOPS are not coin dealers. YOU may have been the exception, and if you were in the business, you would know this - I wouldn't have to say it
You are also assuming other members who post here are not in the business....not so.
Phone calls don't identify the bad ones, as all of them say they pay the best prices for coins and know numismatics very well.
The worst are those that advertise in this manner and when you arrive at their establishment, you are met with a slimeball who wouldn't know coins/keys/semi keys from scrap silver. Everything to them is scrap. >>
avoid selling to pawn shops unless a pawn loan of a nice coin ....list on BST... or just a 25-30% back of bid from a B&M.. or put on the bay
<< <i>Pawn shops do not take something in unless they know the value of it. If they are buying coins, they know the value of coins. >>
Not really. Sometimes they may know the value of certain coins, I've rarely saw an issue of CDN in a Pawn Shop.
More like buying as bulk 90% silver, rarely looking at dates, paying 50% of worst case scenario. For loans, your lucky if you get 30%.
There's a difference between:
a) a PAWN SHOP,
b) a PAWN/COIN shop, and
c) a COIN DEALER.
Coin dealers... well, everyone knows what a coin dealer is. Strictly buys and sells coins/currency/bullion. No pawn, no loans.
True pawn shops are the stereotypical we-buy-or-loan-on-anything places that will certainly buy coins/bullion, but only at no-brainer prices because by and large they don't know the market. Their primary income is derived from loan interest.
Pawn/coin shops are a hybrid of the two, performing most pawn shop functions but also buying and selling like a mainstream coin/bullion dealer. Kind of a superstore, if you will.
And anyone knowledgeable with numismatic material for sale is usually going to shop it to a coin dealer first, pawn/coin shop second... and probably not at all to a pure pawn shop.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>I acknowledge pawn shops do not take into consideration numismatic value when buying gold or silver coins. A typical pawn broker could not care less whether someone brings in a 1921-D walking liberty half dollar in a PCGS MS66 CAC holder or a raw 1944 walking liberty half dollar in Good condition. It's all the same to the pawn shop. >>
Have you actually offered this coin for sale, not for loan, in a pawn shop?
I was just wondering where you get your information. I know three or four pawn dealers locally who are quite competitive. When buying, they know they are competing with me and any number of other dealers locally. When making a loan, they know they stand to make the most money by loaning as much as they possibly can on an item of value.
<< <i>I'm just curious what the worst case scenario is if someone happens to get ahold of my collection someday who is in no position to intelligently sell a collection. As a collector, it is important to plan a liquidation. If leaving the collection to an heir, it is important to share purchase receipts along with a 101 crash-course in proper liquidation. If I don't plan accordingly, how severe is the penalty? >>
Leave a copy of Beth Deisher's Cash In Your Coins: Selling the Rare Coins You've Inherited in your
safe deposit box or wherever you keep your collection.
<< <i>I can only go by my own experience and in my small town there are MANY shops looking to buy gold and silver. A friend of mine needed help liquidating some inherited ASEs. I was offered $22 each for a rolls worth. Declining, I received $33 each from a reputable bullion broker. It pays to do your research and have someone knowledgable help you when you are new to something like coins. FYI, the shop sold common Morgans and inexpensive slabs. They would not even deal at all on their price, even when I knew the price of spot silver that day. >>
Without having qualified your remarks with the specific mention of the spot basis for trading silver at the time of this alleged sale of your friends ASE's, your remarks are worthless. Was silver at $40/ounce or $35/ounce or $30/ounce ?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>
Without having qualified your remarks with the specific mention of the spot basis for trading silver at the time of this alleged sale of your friends ASE's, your remarks are worthless. Was silver at $40/ounce or $35/ounce or $30/ounce ? >>
Such tact. And from a 1/400th owner to boot.
<< <i>They pay as little as possible >>
In contrast, I sold a roll of Eagles yesterday to a new customer who said he could get them for $.XX per coin less than what I was asking. That's between one cent and fifty cents. SO, I concur wholeheartedly with the statement and find it to be spot on. "They (people buying) pay as little as possible."
Works both ways on both sides of the counter , with "TYPICALLY" being the operative word.
He has a greysheet when coins are offered and is knowledgeable of numismatics. Sometimes I will get a call from him offering me coins at CDN Ask sometimes a bunch of them at bid plus probably a 5% commission on the lot. The coins offered for sale are fairly priced in the pawn shop usually around CW Trends and the price list from L&C Coins is also used as a source. As far as what is offered to buyers he says "I offer 50-60% of what I think I can sell it for (CDN Bid)." Or he may even say "that is confidential with the buyer," grinning. Most of what he is offered is mainly junk silver or some proof sets. If he has any suspicion a coin is counterfeit he won't make an offer on it. Problem coins are valued at zero on the tally sheet with a code for CDN bid. Then the tally sheet is added up and multiplied times a percentage for the cash offer, etc. He says "I make the offer as quickly as possible laying out the money. Many of these I can do in a minute or less. The name of the game is to show them the green and take the deal. Being confident and decisive is the key"
<< <i>
<< <i>I acknowledge pawn shops do not take into consideration numismatic value when buying gold or silver coins. A typical pawn broker could not care less whether someone brings in a 1921-D walking liberty half dollar in a PCGS MS66 CAC holder or a raw 1944 walking liberty half dollar in Good condition. It's all the same to the pawn shop. >>
Have you actually offered this coin for sale, not for loan, in a pawn shop?
I was just wondering where you get your information. I know three or four pawn dealers locally who are quite competitive. When buying, they know they are competing with me and any number of other dealers locally. When making a loan, they know they stand to make the most money by loaning as much as they possibly can on an item of value. >>
I gathered my information from my own personal experiences. I enjoy browsing pawn shops for non-numismatic material and will on occasion see coins and ask a few questions. The answers I've heard over the past ten or so years have led me to believe that the majority of pawn shop owners know very little, if anything at all about numismatics. Someone else's personal experiences may differ from mine. That's one reason I decided to post in the first place.
I do not personally own a 1921-D walking liberty half dollar in PCGS CAC 66. It was just the first numismatic rarity that popped into mind that may appear to be an ordinary coin to a non-collector.
I also live in a large town where there is a constant supply of financially desperate people with bills to pay and no choice but to immediately liquidate any assets at any price. Pawn shops in large towns know this and take advantage of it. Once again, this statement is made based on my personal observations. Another person's observations may differ from mine.