Hockey HOF - Who gets in?
shagrotn77
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The new class of hockey HOF'ers will be announced today at 3:00. Hasek is the lone stone cold lock, though Modano and Forsberg have excellent chances at first-ballot induction too. If it were up to me, I'd put Recchi (another first-time eligible player) in ahead of Forsberg, but it doesn't look like that's gonna happen. Assuming Hasek, Modano and Forsberg take up 3 of the 4 spots, it'll be interesting to see who (if anyone) gets the fourth. There are plenty of candidates who've already been passed over already, including Andreychuk, Blake, Lindros (yuck), Roenick, Housley, Makarov, etc.
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Lidstrom meets the definition of stone cold lock, every bit as much as Hasek. However, Lidstrom is eligible in 2015. Did you mean type Lindros instead of Lidstrom and just put the wrong name in your OP? I think Modano and Recchi are totally deserving of induction as well.
I do think Forsberg gets in before Recchi though. Re-reading your post, looks like you had Lindros written a little later, but he isn't his first ballot so not sure what you meant w/ Lidstrom?
Forsberg
Lindros
<< <i>It's hard to argue against any of your points. My main issue with Forsberg as a first-ballot HOF'er is that he missed a TON of time due to injuries. Yes, Recchi was a bit of a compiler, but he was also part of 3 Stanley Cup championship teams. I'm sure it'll end up being a moot point because I suspect that whichever one doesn't go in now will get in in the next year or 2. I just would give the nod to Recchi first. Heck, it's not out of the realm of possibility that that could both go in this year, though I doubt it'll happen. >>
right, and to some health should be considered a skill. I tend to believe that it carries more weight in less contact sports like baseball or basketball, but at the same time, Forsberg was beaten down because unlike most physical top 6 forwards who get to their mid to late 20's, he never changed his style of play. Hits, blocked shots, occasionally dropped the mittens, he never changed. I love Nick Lidstrom and Duncan Keith types, or Gretzky for that matter, and have no problem with their style of play, but had Forsberg played like Gretzky, Keith or Lidstrom who have like what, 10 career hits between them, Forsberg probably ends up with 18 years in the NHL. But he didn't. Forsberg, Lindros, Roenick etc never changed with age, and we're talking about guys who were never afraid to play the puck first. Took hits from the Scott Stevens types and forechecking forwards on the boards on the regular. To me, those the toughest guys in the league. Guys in first to play the puck on the walls. Those who continually have to absorb the contact as opposed to initiating it. I think it's somewhat fair to dock them a little, but not when it comes to awarding guys who avoid contact, shy away from the corners and turn the puck over to avoid taking a hit (see pretty much every current member of the Oilers top 6). Not that he's a HOF caliber player, but when I think of current guys with shredded shoulders, I don't penalize the Marty Havlat types whose shoulders resemble jello from a decade plus of being an aggressive puck pursuer. I mean this is why Hossa misses 15 games a year. You can't be a possession entity without absorbing a ton of contact.
The answer is easy you say, because he is the All-Time NHL save percentage leader.
All time NHL save percentage leaders
But if that is your logic, then is Tim Thomas a shoe in for the Hall of Fame ? Thomas is right next to him, and has a Conn Smythe trophy too.
Just askin'
Hasek
Modano
Forsberg
Blake
Hasek put up 6 Vezina's in basically 12 full seasons in the NHL playing at the same time as Roy and Brodeur. Tim Thomas had a real awesome 4 years where he was amazing but shouldn't even be in the discussion for the HHOF IMO, just not enough good years.
Thanks
email bcmiller7@comcast.net
<< <i>Forsberg over Recchi for sure, he was one of the most dominating players in the game where as Recchi was more of a complimentary player - a great one and very consistent but never as high end a player as Forsberg.
Hasek put up 6 Vezina's in basically 12 full seasons in the NHL playing at the same time as Roy and Brodeur. Tim Thomas had a real awesome 4 years where he was amazing but shouldn't even be in the discussion for the HHOF IMO, just not enough good years. >>
Please don't overlook the concurrent Hart & Pearsons trophies too. Vezina trophies are great, but throw in back-to-back Harts and Pearsons for a goalie and that is just sick good. Tim Thomas is worlds away from Hasek-good.
Also, for all the contact Forsberg took and any injuries he may have sustained, it was his wonky foot and ankle that kept him from playing more, and that had nothing to do with the contact part of the sport. Remember, it is the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame. Forsberg is in for sure. Tres Konor successes count for this vote too.
<< <i>Who is Blake? The only one I remember is Rob Blake. I that him and was he that good?
Thanks >>
Yeah, Rob Blake. Great player, won a Norris and was on a bunch of All-Star teams. I'm not sure I'd have put him in the HOF but he was a helluva player for a long time.
Pat Burns and Bill McCreary also got in. I'm not sure either of those guys belongs in.
Hasek was a dead-lock no-brainer.
Modano? Honestly, I think if he were Canadian, he wouldn't have gotten in. He's a guy whose reputation has ALWAYS exceeded his actual output. Even in the high-scoring 90s, he never topped 93 pts. Modano, to me, anyway, was more of a guy who was very, very good for a long time but never truly elite.
Forsberg is a deserving entrant.
Next year we get the election of "The Perfect Human", Nicklas Lidstrom, among others.
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is Blake? The only one I remember is Rob Blake. I that him and was he that good?
Thanks >>
Yeah, Rob Blake. Great player, won a Norris and was on a bunch of All-Star teams. I'm not sure I'd have put him in the HOF but he was a helluva player for a long time.
Pat Burns and Bill McCreary also got in. I'm not sure either of those guys belongs in.
Hasek was a dead-lock no-brainer.
Modano? Honestly, I think if he were Canadian, he wouldn't have gotten in. He's a guy whose reputation has ALWAYS exceeded his actual output. Even in the high-scoring 90s, he never topped 93 pts. Modano, to me, anyway, was more of a guy who was very, very good for a long time but never truly elite.
Forsberg is a deserving entrant.
Next year we get the election of "The Perfect Human", Nicklas Lidstrom, among others. >>
Blake being a Triple Gold player very probably helped his cause in getting in so early.
Modano had a great career, but he was also in the Might Ducks movie; that's gotta count for something too, right
<< <i>
<< <i>Forsberg over Recchi for sure, he was one of the most dominating players in the game where as Recchi was more of a complimentary player - a great one and very consistent but never as high end a player as Forsberg.
Hasek put up 6 Vezina's in basically 12 full seasons in the NHL playing at the same time as Roy and Brodeur. Tim Thomas had a real awesome 4 years where he was amazing but shouldn't even be in the discussion for the HHOF IMO, just not enough good years. >>
Please don't overlook the concurrent Hart & Pearsons trophies too. Vezina trophies are great, but throw in back-to-back Harts and Pearsons for a goalie and that is just sick good. Tim Thomas is worlds away from Hasek-good.
Also, for all the contact Forsberg took and any injuries he may have sustained, it was his wonky foot and ankle that kept him from playing more, and that had nothing to do with the contact part of the sport. Remember, it is the Hockey Hall of Fame, not the NHL hall of fame. Forsberg is in for sure. Tres Konor successes count for this vote too. >>
you don't get hit by blocking shots or get tagged with a shot with your feet/ankles? That's still game contact. Players (notably shot-blockers) wear steel plates in their boots today for this very reason. I believe the story (told by J.M. Liles) was he took a Foote slapshot from the point off of his boot trying to run a screen that kicked off the foot/ankle injuries....2003 I believe. Supposedly he played with a fracture throughout the playoffs on it and with putting off the surgery it just never healed properly. Then the injuries just started compiling from there. The serious shoulder injury he wore dating back to the '98 Nagano Games.
Fair enough on the Forsberg foot, but I was referring back to your post about his efforts being tough in the corners and playing a physical game along with your discussion about hits. I don't think getting hit with shots matters whether you are a physical player or a more skilled player who might get involved in a little less contact/hitting. Point being, you mention how players like Gretzky, Lidstrom, etc. may have a less physical game than some, such as Forsberg in this case, but any of them can get tagged in the foot by a hard shot.
<< <i>Fair enough on the Forsberg foot, but I was referring back to your post about his efforts being tough in the corners and playing a physical game along with your discussion about hits. I don't think getting hit with shots matters whether you are a physical player or a more skilled player who might get involved in a little less contact/hitting. Point being, you mention how players like Gretzky, Lidstrom, etc. may have a less physical game than some, such as Forsberg in this case, but any of them can get tagged in the foot by a hard shot. >>
no not if you're getting hit with a shot while on offense. But if you're getting tagged blocking a shot on defense, that's another matter. There are a ton of players who most consider physical/tough who aren't willing to block shots. Take a look at Lucic's blocked shot totals. They're right around noted bruisers like Patrick Kane. I'm not even sure Forsberg ever had the foot surgery with the Av's. I'm seeing something now that says he didn't have his first foot surgery until he signed with Philly. So that's probably the problem. Then in subsequent years he had wrist, groin, and hip surgeries in addition to the ruptured spleen circa 2001. So his injury woes certainly were't just the foot and shoulder problems he wore. Hip and shoulder issues are generally the result of taking body contact. I believe Roenick has claimed he's had something like 13 shoulder and hip surgeries.