1814 Brazil 960 Reis overstruck on Santiago (Chile) 8 Reales

brg5658

Every year for the past 4 years I have tried to add a coin to my collection around the time of my birthday that is special to me. This year I came across a coin celebrating it's 200th birthday since it was overstruck.

I have to admit, I don't know too much about the 960 Reis overstrike coins, but I have seen many up for auction. What caught my attention on this one was that I could see enough of the host coin to make out that it was an 8 Reales struck in Santiago, Chile (the Santiago mint mark is a letter "S" with a small o above it -- see close-up image below). Again, this isn't my collecting niche, but I do know enough to know that the 8 Reales from Chile are quite scarce compared to some of the other mints.

In general, this coin shows a nice amount of luster, a decent strike with a bit of the under-design peeking through, and based on some close up images I have taken around the right side of the Crown and the "J" in "JOANNES" I believe the host coin to be an 1806 Chile 8 Reales.

If you're up for it, please feel free to also guess what you think PCGS graded this coin.

If anyone can offer any further information on the scarcity of a Brazilian 960 Reis overstruck on a Chilean 8 Reales, it would be most appreciated. Below are my images.

Cheers,
-Brandon

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theboz11

KOOL and Happy Birthday. I have no clue how to grade that , overstrikes are tough for me..

My birthday is tomorrow and I haven't decide what to get.

Zohar

Happy birthday! I dabbled in these once yet did not stay with it. I believe there are forum experts on these.

TPRC

Difficult to tell grade from pic due to the overstrike and strike weakness in central devices, but there is luster so I will guess au-53.
It's pretty and I can never figure out why they are so cheap.

JCMhouston

Very neat piece.

TwoKopeiki

Nice find! Does appear to be a Chilean portrait host.

Weiss

Very cool!

jayPem

Very cool !
Let's see...looks like a Carlos IIII but I can't tell if there is a discernable date.
The earliest dates 1789-1791 (armoured bust type) are rare for sure, but would have IV rather than IIII, so rule that out.
The Colonial type 960's from Bahia mint are scarcer, Your coin appears to be a Rio mint, although I suppose that might be a B mint mark ?

Chilean coins from this era seemed to have wound up in Brazil in rather large numbers, and are often fairly common as host coins for 960's ...

Yours looks like strong AU to me. More flatly struck than worn with sharp rims and nice luster !
I bet if you take a look with a strong loupe and some tilting, you may be able to tell what the underdate is, or at least part of it...

Nice score !

Sapyx

That clearly visible Santiago mintmark is way cooler than what I can see on any of my Brazilian overstrikes.

brg5658

<< <i>Very cool !
Let's see...looks like a Carlos IIII but I can't tell if there is a discernable date.
The earliest dates 1789-1791 (armoured bust type) are rare for sure, but would have IV rather than IIII, so rule that out.
The Colonial type 960's from Bahia mint are scarcer, Your coin appears to be a Rio mint, although I suppose that might be a B mint mark ?

Chilean coins from this era seemed to have wound up in Brazil in rather large numbers, and are often fairly common as host coins for 960's ...

Yours looks like strong AU to me. More flatly struck than worn with sharp rims and nice luster !
I bet if you take a look with a strong loupe and some tilting, you may be able to tell what the underdate is, or at least part of it...

Nice score ! >>



I have done that, and I posted what my best guess was in the original post. I believe the host coin is an 1806 Santiago (Chile) 8 Reales. I can't make out the first 2 digits of the host coin date (they are under strong lettering of the overstruck coin), but I can make out a clear "0" in the third digit place, and a fully rounded base of digit 4. When I did a side by side comparison with some pictures I could find for the 1803, 1806, and 1808 Carlos IIII 8 Reales, it matches best the 1806. This is also consistent with the assayer's mark visible on the host coin as "FJ" (which rules out 1800 as the host coin date).

Now, how awesome would it be if I were able to make out the 1806/5 overdate...alas, there isn't enough underdate left to do that.

Thanks for your nice comments.

jayPem

I noticed after I posted that you already had a date...
My main reference for these is David Andre Levy's book , The 960 reis Overstrikes. There is some discussion about the scarcity of the Santiago coins, and a sort of price guide...
from which you can kind of get an idea which dates and undertypes are hard to find, but not much of an attempt at hard numbers rarity wise.

To bad 960coins doesn't seem to be posting here anymore, or keeping his website up to date, he was a great one for discussing these with....