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Im a Huge Al Michaels fan now..
perkdog
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in Sports Talk
Al Michaels, the play-by-play man for NBC's Sunday Night Football, is the latest person to weigh in on the Redskins name controversy. Appearing on Jim Rome on Showtime this week, the legendary broadcaster was asked if he thought Redskins owner Daniel Snyder would keep the name.
“It seems to me as if he is going to hold on,” Michaels said (via SportsBog). “I mean all of the sudden -- I mean, for 70-some odd years this was a zero issue, and then it became an issue. I understand we live in this politically correct environment. It's crazier than ever; you know, senators want to weigh in on this, like there's nothing better to do in Congress. This becomes a big issue. I mean, I just think it's nuts. And I do know, I've talked to Snyder about it -- not recently but when we were in Washington last year -- and he basically said 'over my dead body.'”
This doesn't sound much different than what Snyder said as far back as May 2013, when he proclaimed, "We'll never change the name. It's that simple. NEVER -- you can use caps."
Predictably, the "over my dead body" sentiments didn't go over well with Oneida Indian Nation representative Ray Halbritter, who has been outspoken on the Redskins' name.
“Al Michaels' insensitive comments defending Dan Snyder perfectly exemplify why this has become the civil rights issue of the moment,” Halbritter told USAToday.com. “He proudly defends Snyder saying the name will only be changed ‘over my dead body,' somehow ignoring the fact that this name is already associated with dead bodies -- untold numbers of dead Native Americans who were tortured, abused and killed while being taunted with this racial slur.”
This latest development comes days after former Saints cornerback Champ Bailey, who was drafted seventh overall by the Redskins in 1999, said that Snyder should change the name.
“I get it, he doesn't want to change it,” Bailey said. “But he's making it worse than it should be. I don't know where the name came from or how it came about, but the bottom line is that it's still here in this day and age, and it makes no sense to have it,” Bailey said. “I love that organization, but when it starts peeling off old scabs and people are pitching a fit about it because it's degrading to them, then you've got to make a change.”
“It seems to me as if he is going to hold on,” Michaels said (via SportsBog). “I mean all of the sudden -- I mean, for 70-some odd years this was a zero issue, and then it became an issue. I understand we live in this politically correct environment. It's crazier than ever; you know, senators want to weigh in on this, like there's nothing better to do in Congress. This becomes a big issue. I mean, I just think it's nuts. And I do know, I've talked to Snyder about it -- not recently but when we were in Washington last year -- and he basically said 'over my dead body.'”
This doesn't sound much different than what Snyder said as far back as May 2013, when he proclaimed, "We'll never change the name. It's that simple. NEVER -- you can use caps."
Predictably, the "over my dead body" sentiments didn't go over well with Oneida Indian Nation representative Ray Halbritter, who has been outspoken on the Redskins' name.
“Al Michaels' insensitive comments defending Dan Snyder perfectly exemplify why this has become the civil rights issue of the moment,” Halbritter told USAToday.com. “He proudly defends Snyder saying the name will only be changed ‘over my dead body,' somehow ignoring the fact that this name is already associated with dead bodies -- untold numbers of dead Native Americans who were tortured, abused and killed while being taunted with this racial slur.”
This latest development comes days after former Saints cornerback Champ Bailey, who was drafted seventh overall by the Redskins in 1999, said that Snyder should change the name.
“I get it, he doesn't want to change it,” Bailey said. “But he's making it worse than it should be. I don't know where the name came from or how it came about, but the bottom line is that it's still here in this day and age, and it makes no sense to have it,” Bailey said. “I love that organization, but when it starts peeling off old scabs and people are pitching a fit about it because it's degrading to them, then you've got to make a change.”
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Vocal isolated Oneida leaders aside, polls have shown that the majority of Native Americans don't care one way or the other about the whole thing.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Anyone else want Tater Tots all the sudden? >>
Ok I have to ask.
WTF are you talking about?
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<< <i>Anyone else want Tater Tots all the sudden? >>
Ok I have to ask.
WTF are you talking about? >>
I don't recall the poster, but a month or so ago a member suggested that the team keep the name but change the logo to a potato.
Brilliance.
+ 1 AS LOUD AS I SAY IT!!!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone else want Tater Tots all the sudden? >>
Ok I have to ask.
WTF are you talking about? >>
I don't recall the poster, but a month or so ago a member suggested that the team keep the name but change the logo to a potato.
Brilliance. >>
I'm 34, probably too young to find anything wrong with the name Redskin, so whenever I hear it, I always think of either red potatoes (with salt, pepper, roseary, and garlic!). And when I hear about this Oneida tribe, it makes me think of OreIda, that company that makes all the frozen potato products!
The 2-1 ruling came Wednesday after a campaign to change the name gained momentum over the past year. The team doesn't immediately lose trademark protection and is allowed to retain it during an appeal.""""
<< <i>Always liked Michaels. Odd part is, I am now A Snyder fan >>
A Snyder fan? Are you serious? Only Trump can challenge him on the P*ick-O-Meter. Seventy years ago we had Jim Crow laws. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. It is never too late to correct an injustice.
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<< <i>Always liked Michaels. Odd part is, I am now A Snyder fan >>
A Snyder fan? Are you serious? Only Trump can challenge him on the P*ick-O-Meter. Seventy years ago we had Jim Crow laws. It was wrong then, and it is wrong now. It is never too late to correct an injustice. >>
May as well kiss your logo goodbye too, they are next on the list!.
<< <i>""""The U.S. Patent Office ruled that the Washington Redskins name is "disparaging of Native Americans" and federal trademarks for the name have to be canceled.
The 2-1 ruling came Wednesday after a campaign to change the name gained momentum over the past year. The team doesn't immediately lose trademark protection and is allowed to retain it during an appeal.""""
Glad that the nations business is being taken care of.
Take heart- many of America's leading intellectuals are right there with you.
<< <i>Oklahoma is the 20th most extensive and the 28th most populous of the 50 United States. The state's name is derived from the Choctaw words okla and humma, meaning "red people". >>
Big difference Fitz and I am sorry that you were not able to have your own slaves either..... You are going to go down in history as someone who lived an ignorant life. Please make a family time capsule with your point of view and keep it for your great grandchildren to open in 50 years and as your family opens the document you left them, your own family would distance themselves from you or perhaps just give a qualifier that you were just living in the stone ages when it was okay to not treat all people with respect.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>I cant stand Snyder one bit but I hope he wins the appeal. We are way to PC these days and its only getting worse. People need to put on the big boy pants and leave things alone. I love this country, hate the government along with most of the people who fill it. >>
I just want to get back to the time when you could pat babes on the butt when they do a good job. I'm their boss. I need to give feedback and the liberal agenda took away the most effective method.
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<< <i>Oklahoma is the 20th most extensive and the 28th most populous of the 50 United States. The state's name is derived from the Choctaw words okla and humma, meaning "red people". >>
Big difference Fitz ] >>
Big difference ???
Let's see.
Redskins = red skinned people
Okla humma = red skinned people
Yeah, huge difference.
Thanks for opening my eyes to that.
Since we’re on the topic and asking questions, should Oklahoma change its name?
Back when Andrew Jackson decided the biggest problem with America was actual Americans, indigenous people were rounded up and sent packing on the Trail of Tears. The final destination on the trail was a patch of dirt we call Oklahoma, likely to the chagrin of natives already living there (imagine your neighbors being evicted into your house).
First among the resettled tribes were the Choctaw, from whom we get the words okla humma, which literally means “red people.”
Yes, that’s the name we gave the whole state: Red People. It’s like Connecticut being named “White People” or Florida being named “Wrinkled People” or California being named “Fake Boobs.” Kinda racist, right? It’s one thing for the Choctaw to have the term okla humma, but isn’t it a bit crass for us to use that as a name for a state with, you know, red people we put there?
What kind of racist does that?
The red kind, actually. It was the idea of Allen Wright, a Choctaw chief, during treaty negotiations.
As an ofay of suspect ethnic pedigree, who am I question a Choctaw chief?
So if we’re to consider changing the name “Oklahoma,” we have to arrive at the conclusion that “red people” is inappropriate, as many are suggesting is the case with “Redskins.”
A 2004 National Annenberg Election Survey — the most recent poll to canvass American Indians for their opinions on the subject — found that 90 percent of Native Americans are not offended by the Redskins nickname.
If Adam Silver was the NFL Commisioner Dan Snyder would have long ago been 100% banned from the NFL and forced to sell his team simply because he wants to not change the "Redskins" team name.
Snyder's refusal to change the team name is, at a minimum, the equivalent (if not worse than) the transgressions of Donald Sterling. Right?
Does not both Sterling and Snyder deserve to be flogged, keel hauled, flayed, bankrupted and imprisoned for their transgressions?
I suspect that to some people Snyder's refusal to change the team name is the equivalent of the wrongful acts currently taking place in Darfur, Iraq, and Sudan; plus the prior wrongful acts of Pol Pot, Hitler and Nazi Germany, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Mao Tse Tung, the Incas, the Aztecs, the Crusaders, Xerxis, African Slave Traders in the 13th -19th centuries, purchasers of African Slaves from African Slave Traders in the 13th-19th centuries, Ghengis Khan, Spanish Conquistadores, American government treatment of Indians in the 1800's, 1900's and 2000's, Japanese treatment of civilians in China, Korea, Burma, etc. in WWII, and on and on and on going back to Cain and Able (or for evolutionists when microbial life first appeared and started to devour each other in a never ending battle for dominance).
If and when the "Redskins" name is dropped and discontinued from the NFL team in Washington, I wonder what evil will be next in line to be placed into the crosshairs of the PC police?
Otherwise, well done!
I am waiting for the day that the defenders, the actual people, of native mascots decide to name one of their community little league or pop warner football teams after another race instead of Indians and honor them too because they deserve it. The honorers of racist mascots can dress up like them, portray the stereotypes of them to the nth degree and see the outrage that would come their way. Name your team with a non-racist term like Kings after MLK. In the mean time, be sure to dress up like him (black paint necessary if you are white), imitate his speeches to others, includes aspects of religion in here as many deeply spiritual experiences are basically ridiculed by others when in a sports context, and do nothing but honor the team and I am sure you will be making the news in no time. You could literally be on ABC, NBC, CBS all of them.....and I am sure you would be known as the town racist or bigot and people and/or businesses would want to distance themselves from you, to not be associated with you, and depending where you work fired or on ad min leave. Yet it is perfectly okay for mascots to happen to native people, why?
I say that Edmund should dress up as blackface for a Halloween party while his friends dress up as Indians and wonder why it is okay for his friends to not get the grief that he would get. America is pretty slow to acknowledge Native people like they have for other races......it is a mystery to me.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
I personally would never choose the term "Redskins" as a name for any sports team. In fact I would not use the term at all, for any reason.
What irritates me is the idea that it is somehow ok to compel or force anyone (including Snyder) to do something (i.e. change the team name to something other than "Redskins") simply because other people (some who loudly pronounce that they are "advocates" for others) simply do not agree with whatever they object to.
If Snyder insists that he will never change the team name, then so what. If the name is so offensive that the public simply chooses to not watch games, buy tickets or support the team then so be it. Snyder will face the consequences of of his stubborness and will lose money (and possibly the team if it goes bankrupt).
Turning to wrestling, would you be in favor of forcing or compelling "The Iron ShieK" and/or "Sargent Slaughter" [of 1970's fame] to abandon their respective stage names and costumes simply because someone claims to be "offended" by same? Or do you believe that these two wrestlers should be able to make their own choices and live with the failure or success of their choices in the market place. How about today's wrestlers? I am sure that "The Undertaker" offends someone, somewhere. Should he be forced to abandon his stage name and costume. What about the wrestler (I forget his name) who dressed up as a backwoods Hillbilly? Or some of the female wrestlers who over emphasize sexuality in their stage names and costumes? I am sure that there are people who are offended by many such wrestlers of today. Should those wrestlers be forced to abandon their stage names and costumes?
Oklahoma "red people" was named by a Chcotaw chief.
An Indian named a state in the good ol' USA "Red People".
90% of Native Americans do not feel the term Redskin is offensive.
Dressing up in Indian garb is not offensive, as WCK has cards of Chief Jay Strongbow in his card collection.
Chief Jay is not Indian. He's Italian. If WCK was so offended by people dressing up in Indian garb, then he
would throw away his Chief Jay cards.
The 10% of the people who are offended have the right to say their peace, but they need to remember this......
"Over my dead body"
Leave it alone......and change back all the names that were changed!
I despise the reprehensible swastika and the filth, pain and destruction that it represents.
Would I like Ebay to ban the things? My guts say yes and my brain says no.
Freedom of speech is paramount to maintain any semblance of what the framers of the Constitution envisioned for our nation.
Only the difficult speech needs defense. Some are indeed bothered by the Indian names and logos, but we cannot trample the rights of some to appease the desires of others.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>My local Indian casino has no problem cashing in with an NFL promo each year. Perhaps the injustice has escaped them.
Text >>
I agree...can't have it both ways.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Oklahoma is the 20th most extensive and the 28th most populous of the 50 United States. The state's name is derived from the Choctaw words okla and humma, meaning "red people". >>
Big difference Fitz ] >>
Big difference ???
Let's see.
Redskins = red skinned people
Okla humma = red skinned people
Yeah, huge difference.
Thanks for opening my eyes to that. >>
Learn something new each day. Hmmm
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<< <i>My local Indian casino has no problem cashing in with an NFL promo each year. Perhaps the injustice has escaped them.
Text >>
I agree...can't have it both ways. >>
Because you may or may not agree with 1/32 of a business, you must totally remove yourself completely? Does this mean someone cannot associate at all with those with opposing politics, religion, etc. with other people? If you are living in the country and do not support the current president are the residents of that country supporting him by living here while he is in office? Should everyone be fleeing to Canada? Maybe you are wanting to be cashing in on the USA. I fail to see how one Tribe mentioned in the link above gets to represent the approximately 566 Tribes in this country. It's really no different that saying that Iran represents us because we are both people. Don't people realize that each Tribe is their own "nation"?
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Question 1985fan for you.
Are you g@y ?
I know that people who are g@y usually try to fight and stick up for groups they feel have been mistreated.
Perhaps if you are g@y, then I can understand why you would want to call 91% of Native Americans bigots just because they disagree with your point of view.
So are you g@y 1985fan ? Because if you are, then perhaps I should just leave you alone, because I have some friends that are g@y and bi and have
big anger issues when it comes to people being mistreated. >>
Fitz, you have proved to be homophobic in your own words as well as calling me a savage for being Yurok.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>Redskins is not even a racist term, so the previous post by WCK is bunk.
Oklahoma "red people" was named by a Chcotaw chief.
An Indian named a state in the good ol' USA "Red People".
90% of Native Americans do not feel the term Redskin is offensive.
Dressing up in Indian garb is not offensive, as WCK has cards of Chief Jay Strongbow in his card collection.
Chief Jay is not Indian. He's Italian. If WCK was so offended by people dressing up in Indian garb, then he
would throw away his Chief Jay cards.
The 10% of the people who are offended have the right to say their peace, but they need to remember this......
"Over my dead body"
post from last year Fitz.......
I see it differently than you do Skin. The Redskins name is a slur, while Indiana is a name with nothing else attached to it. Personally, I feel just the name of the Cleveland Indians is not the real issue. It has everything to do with fans dressing up as Indians, or silly things like the Tomahawk chop, the gross caricature of the Chief Wahoo mascot, etc. It is what follows it.....there are examples where the name itself can lead itself down a road of gross insensitivity if a newspaper has a headline that says, "Yankees scalp Indians 8 to 0". That is the reason why I think it would just be better to not have them so these things do not occur. Almost inevitably in sports it is the mascots and the fans that are the issue and not just the name by itself. I think the names of states and most places in the US have blended into our society with little issue from native peoples and have very little meaning besides the name of "squaw" which is being removed in many places.
Looking to BUY n332 1889 SF Hess cards and high grade cards from 19th century especially. "Once you have wrestled everything else in life is easy" Dan Gable
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My local Indian casino has no problem cashing in with an NFL promo each year. Perhaps the injustice has escaped them.
Text >>
I agree...can't have it both ways. >>
Because you may or may not agree with 1/32 of a business, you must totally remove yourself completely? Does this mean someone cannot associate at all with those with opposing politics, religion, etc. with other people? If you are living in the country and do not support the current president are the residents of that country supporting him by living here while he is in office? Should everyone be fleeing to Canada? Maybe you are wanting to be cashing in on the USA. I fail to see how one Tribe mentioned in the link above gets to represent the approximately 566 Tribes in this country. It's really no different that saying that Iran represents us because we are both people. Don't people realize that each Tribe is their own "nation"? >>
Let me clarify. I think they should change the name but in this country we have rules to follow good or bad. Once it is not financially wise to keep the name he will change if not sooner. I think if that tribe is against the name they should take a stand and not make money off the same
industry that is the issue. The rest I don't see the link...two wrongs don't make a right.
I hope the federal government finds more critical problems to spend their time on. And I hope the NFL decides it would be better for business long term to force a name change. For me that scenario would be a victory for free market concepts and common sense.
<< <i>ESPN wants you to vote. >>
Interesting poll. Currently 36% yes, change/64% no change on a nationwide basis. This isn't the first time they've done a poll like this and the results are always the same. There's a link called "Show Map" where you can see a state by state breakdown. Oklahoma is 72% against a name change, for example. The majority of states even close to a 50-50 are - predictably- on the liberal left coast, plus NY and MA... and they're still leaning no. Even here in the People's Republic of Illinois it's 61% no. An international poll is 63% no.
Dead horse much?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
A few things I want point out:
1)America IS heavily PC and it can get annoying. Youth sports is right there in line. If a 15 yr old kid playing on a baseball team can't catch or throw, then he has to accept that he will only be a part time player, and bat last. If him or his family doesn't like it, then he either needs to get better, or find an activity that suits his skill set.
2)Referring to any group of people by their skin color IS in poor taste.
3)Red-skins does have a historic relation to killing Native Americans
4)Dan Snyder is free to name his private business whatever he wants, and just has to take any repercussions that comes with it.
5)If government is going to force the hand of the Redskins team name change, then they need to be consistent and force the name change of ALL native nicknames and state names such as Oklahoma. You can't pick and choose. Either it is offensive and they all go, or none of them go.
6)That poll that is being referred to about 90% of Natives not finding it offensive, is an extremely silly poll with no validity to it....and there is no point to even use that as evidence.
7)Government does have bigger fish to fry...they should be focusing on how government people and their friends get rich and steal money from American Citizens, and stop their constant lying and self interest, then maybe what they say will actually have meaning.
That doesn't give an answer to the topic, but I'm just a guy who likes to eat, drink, party, and argue about sports...so I'm not going to have the answer anyway!