1861 HALP PENNY

Walter · June 5, 2014 3:35PM

I'm fairly new to British coins, I bought this one a few months back and just got the grade this morning. PCGS slabbed it as the HALP/HALF variety. Is that correct? The tips of the F seem much closer together than on other 1861s but I can't seem to find any high grade examples of the variety to compare it to.

JCMhouston · June 5, 2014 11:09PM

Yes, that is the correct one, I don't have a large reverse image with me but here is the regular date:

Walter · June 6, 2014 10:14AM

Wow that's a beaut! What did it grade at?

Spink doesn't list values for the HALP/HALF type, only listing it as extremely rare. This came back MS64BN, any idea of its value? I can only find examples of low grade pieces selling at around $100 - $300.

JCMhouston · June 6, 2014 11:50AM

Mine is a proof in 65. Not sure on the value of yours but will see what I can find.

Muygrandeoso · June 7, 2014 6:03AM

This seems a bit odd to me. The few examples of a 1861 HALP/Half penny that I have seen had a much clearer P..But then I am not an expert?

Walter · June 8, 2014 9:44AM

I'll post some better photos once it gets back from PCGS.

Walter · June 9, 2014 6:49PM

Here we are:

I'm leaning towards PCGS being correct here, there's definitely something going on with the F.

coinkat · June 9, 2014 8:02PM

wonderful coin

value? No idea, but it worth contacting Baldwin's or Dix Noonan Webb

RareBronzeCollector · June 11, 2014 1:18PM

I don't have my 2 specimens in front of me at the moment (I'll post them over the weekend when I return home...),
but the images that have been posted do not look like what I remember the HALP penny variety to be.
I might be wrong, but as I recall, the P is quite obvious under the F....

Another point to consider is the obverse. The HALP penny is only known on reverse G (which this is) to be paired with
Obverse 6 and with obverse 7... I will post an image of each...

The pairing with obverse 6 is the more common of the two, the obverse 7 being much rarer, although both are very scarce....

If this coin is NEITHER obverse 6 nor obverse 7, then it is almost certainly NOT a HALP penny....

7Jaguars · June 11, 2014 2:09PM

Yes, not quite my exact area of Brit coins halfpenny varietals - but I have seen a couple and my recall is similar to RBC's in that I recall more of a closure to the top loop & not just close ends. BTW, Love our hosts but sometimes the Brit bits (like that?) are a bit off on grade or attribution as famous Rob sometimes hints at.

Walter · June 11, 2014 3:19PM

Here's the obverse:

Here's a zoomed in version of the F

RareBronzeCollector · June 11, 2014 5:01PM

That is an obverse 7, so the possibility remains……

Walter · June 11, 2014 5:17PM

When you get the chance, can you post a photo of your specimens?

RareBronzeCollector · June 11, 2014 5:36PM

<< <i>When you get the chance, can you post a photo of your specimens? >>

As I said in my first post.... I'll post on the weekend when I return home.... sorry for the delay

Walter · June 11, 2014 7:39PM

<< <i>

<< <i>When you get the chance, can you post a photo of your specimens? >>

As I said in my first post.... I'll post on the weekend when I return home.... sorry for the delay >>

Sorry I missed that. ^^

RareBronzeCollector · June 14, 2014 3:26AM

1861 F-277 HALP penny - Obverse 6, Reverse G

RareBronzeCollector · June 14, 2014 3:29AM

1861 F-282 HALP penny - Obverse 7, Reverse G

Walter · June 14, 2014 10:11AM

Thanks for the images. It seems to be from the same die as the second (the date doesn't line up with the first coin but is a perfect match with the second).

I can think of two theories, either the P was obliterated at some stage with a fresh F punched on the die (this practice was common at the Sydney branch of the Royal mint at the time - I am not sure if it occurred in London as fresh dies would've been more readily available than in the colonies). This seems to be consistent with the appearance (a strong F with only remnants of a P beneath) and is what PCGS seems to have concluded (they described it as a HALF/HALP variety rather than a HALP variety).

Or the P is in fact an oddly forming die crack on a normal F and my coin is from an earlier die state so the crack is less formed - this seems less likely as the F appears to be on top of the crack with a defined border - a crack on the die would break into the F.

RareBronzeCollector · June 14, 2014 11:55AM

The accepted SHORTHAND nomenclature for the HALP F/P or HALF/HALP Penny is simply HALP penny....
The coins are NOT simply struck with P in HALF (HALP), they are all actually F/P

I'm still not 100% convinced that it is indeed a HALP penny, but the fact that your coin does match the 2nd coin imaged is a good thing, inasmuch is it also matches one of the known obverse pairings, obverse 7, also...

I still would need to see it from different angles or direct examination to convince me that it is indeed an F/P, but if it is, it is the scarcer of the 2 die combinations, and in excellent condition.... and personally, I would want a definitive example for my collection to display the variety... The obverse 6 I posted is very clearly an F/P, whereas on the obverse 7, the overlying F is not as obvious, but still apparent.....

Still a good find, and a can't lose situation, especially if it was not purchased as an F/P HALP penny...

Just for future reference, be sure to note the die pairing (7 & G), as this is the scarcer of the two (the other being 6 & G)....

1861 HALP PENNY

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