Large cent ID help needed

BillyKingsley

Hi All, I have not been around in a while (taking a break from all message boards), but I need some help from the more knowledgeable membership on here. I'm helping a family member go through a small coin stash, and this one looks like it might be something rather rare. I know the pictures stink- I've never been great at coin photography, but take a look at these photos-




Now...I believe this is an 1804 cent. Based on what's left of the date, and the placement of the cuds, which match the images in the 2009 Red Book perfectly, it leads me to believe that it is, indeed, an 1804. It's not really visible in the photograph, but there is a slight trace of "180" visible in the date, and it appears to be remains of a 4 after that- but it's so faint it's too hard to tell.

I know the coin is in rough shape, but even so it seems like it might be a fairly expensive coin based on the several year old Red Book. (I need to buy a new one, 2009 is my newest- actually, my only one).

Any insight would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

LanceNewmanOCC

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based on the cud placement, i'm going with s-266c r2
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BillyKingsley

Thanks Lance, but could you explain what you mean? I am not knowledgeable enough to understand what you wrote. Even though I've been collecting since 2008 most of my knowledge lies in the 20th century.

LanceNewmanOCC

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if your coins is a 266c, which it appears to be to me based on the obv/rev cud placements, even without seeing the date the cuds should guarantee the coin as an 1804 large cent.

i doubt these have been counterfeited with cuds, so authenticity shouldn't be an issue and the 266c simply refers to the die marriage/die state for this coin and the r2 means it is a common

marriage/variety/die state, especially in lower corroded grades.

i won't comment about value as i think there will probably be archives that would tell you that better than my estimations.

edited to add:

it looks like (from my information) that the 3 die states known for this marriage have rarities as follows:

266 - r4 no cuds obv/rev
266b - r5 obv cud only
266c - r2 obv/rev cuds

an ultra insightful die state study may show some transitional variations that may be scarcer and more sought after but if this is the case, i don't possess that knowledge or information. also which state is available in specific conditions is not information i posses and may vastly affect the rarity and valuation.
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BillyKingsley

Thank you Lance! I am hoping I will be able to tell her that she will be able to sell this one for a big wad of cash, to be honest. I'm solely a collector, I never sell anything...but based on what I saw in the Red Book, if I am correct, it would put the coin out of my price range

LanceNewmanOCC

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i'll see if i can find a couple hammer prices for this piece but i will be shocked it if it is a lot.

edited to add:

well color me shocked! it does appear to have a value of at least several hundred dollars.

glad i looked it up.

now i'm paranoid about other draped bust cents with cuds in coincidentally the same spots!
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BillyKingsley

According to the Red Book it's due to a broken die, and the Cuds are characteristics of the die pair I have no idea where to look this stuff up at- a quick internet search found, as usual, nothing. I'm probably just looking in the wrong place, but then again, I am relatively clueless!

LanceNewmanOCC

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can someone confirm the Holmes ms-63 bn example brought $600k?

lot 531 / s-266c?

edited to add: LMAO

the auction result is in my 2014 redbook. mystery solved. i'm glad my prices realized sheet is accurate and i'm reading it correctly. shoo wee.

BUT the holmes specimen was a "C". now i wonder what an "A" and "B" would sell for in equivalent condition?
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numisma

Lance is correct (as usual). It is an 1804 S-266c. Very cool find. As for value, here's a screenshot of some examples that have sold at Heritage in the same grade range. Actually, your family friend's coin may be slightly lower, but it is still a neat find and worth a few hundred dollars or more.

LanceNewmanOCC

<< <i>Very cool find. As for value, here's a screenshot >>



that is so WEIRD. i was coming back to this thread to post a heritage link and you beat me to it! lol

i'll just post an individual coin so large images can be compared by the OP if they have a heritage account that is. link
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indeetlib

Looks like a legit 1804, congrats! I imagine you might even see a little bit of the date with the coin in hand in the right light.

There are many electros/casts/etc of 1804 cents in this die state in all grades, so it would need an in-hand look, but I don't see anything suspicious in the photos. Worth at least $600-700, maybe more depending on how much of the date is there.

Walkerguy21D

Yep, the reverse was a dead giveaway.
Very cool find indeed!

BillyKingsley

Thank you all very much! I can't wait to tell her This also makes it the most valuable coin I've ever held in my hands...that's my hand in the background.

BillyKingsley

If she were to go about selling this, who would be the best dealer to contact? I've never sold anything, in almost 30 years in various hobbies, so I have no clue. Thanks!

okiedude

Offer it here on the BST section. You will probably do better than selling to a dealer and make another collector happy. Win-win

Walkerguy21D

If you are going to offer it to a dealer, I would stick with one of the bigger EAC guys, like Tom Reynolds, Chris McAwley, or Shawn Yancey.
They have the clientele and expertise for handling such pieces and won't offer lowball 'back of Bid' for it.
The BST is also a good idea, but then you'd be expected to put a price on it. For full disclosure, it's a date I need for my set,
but I'm looking for a stronger example.