Ahh... Can you say "Shill"

SAM5969

The evidence speaks loud and clear......

Edited to add seller link - completed auctions et. al. It is easy enough to view current auctions from this link so have at it and make your own assessment .. I for one, LOVE the 1839 Half Dollar with all that lovely AT and more bag marks than Carter has liver pills: Link to completed auctions

1. 37 total feedback yet 159 bids in 30 days, 81 of which are with same seller
2. The last 8 bids are all with seller 1 and every bid is a different category. From Gold to large cents to Barber Quarters to Half Dimes
3. Anyone denying or looking for reasons why this is NOT true is nothing more than the smartest guy in the room, internet contrarian, chat-room weenie (I heard that somewhere before), confrontationalist aficionado and Devil's advocate

Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: d***r ( 37Feedback score is 10 to 49)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1902-O Barber's Liberty Head quarter
Bids on this item: 5

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 159
Items bid on: 81
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 33% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Help Last Bid Help
Coins & Paper Money > Quarters 2 Seller 1 12h
Coins & Paper Money > Gold 4 Seller 1 22h
Coins & Paper Money > Large Cents 8 Seller 1 22h
Coins & Paper Money > Dimes 5 Seller 1 2d 20h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Cents 3 Seller 1 <1h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Dollars 11 Seller 1 <1h
Coins & Paper Money > Quarters 5 Seller 1 3d 17h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 2 Seller 2 1d 9h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Cents 3 Seller 3 8h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Cents 13 Seller 1 <1h
Coins & Paper Money > Dollars 1 Seller 1 6d 20h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Cents 1 Seller 4 2d 19h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Cents 2 Seller 5 1d 18h
Coins & Paper Money > Small Cents 1 Seller 4 4d 5h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Cents 1 Seller 6 23h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 2 1d 21h
Coins & Paper Money > Albums & Folders 1 Seller 2 1d 20h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 2 1d 21h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 2 1d 21h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 2 1d 21h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 7 3d 20h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 3 Seller 2 21h
Coins & Paper Money > Small Cents 1 Seller 1 2d 14h
Coins & Paper Money > Half Dimes 1 Seller 8 5h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 2 Seller 8 5h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 2 2d 13h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 3 Seller 2 <1h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 5 Seller 2 <1h
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 1 Seller 2 1d
Coins & Paper Money > Nickels 2 Seller 2 23h
To keep eBay a safe place for buyers and sellers, member-specific information is not displayed

ms70

<< <i>To keep eBay a safe place for buyers and sellers, member-specific information is not displayed >>



^^...This works out well for everyone...^^

lostincoins

What am I missing as I see no retractions or cancellations. All new members look this way if they bid on multiple items from one bidder. Usually a shill will appear as 100% with many more bids per item. Could you please further explain why you feel this particular new ebayer is a shill bidder?

SAM5969

With all due respect John ... no explanation required .. Shills can be manually controlled and usually are ..

Why cant he use the shill account to do some legit bidding ......... If you think 81 bids with seller 1 in the past 30 days, the last 10 bids with the same seller, all with auctions closing in less than 24 hours and all in vastly different areas of numismatics is legit, then so be it. No FB from the guy he does the most bidding with (seller 1; himself)

* Edited for grammar

410a

This is why I don't win coins on ebay. I can't bid that higher notch or two above what I have as a max. I have seen my bid eclipsed and then the higher bidder withdraw his/her bid and I end up the high bidder. I am not pleased at this point, but at the last 5 seconds snipers hit the bidding trigger and I lose. It just doesn't seem quite right. So, I refrain from bidding on ebay.

LindeDad

Wonder if many sellers don't place min. bids that they want to sell at from other accounts sometimes or have an employee do it for them?

telephoto1

News flash...there are plenty of lower (and higher) feedback bidders with similar patterns on ebay and most aren't shills. Many go through new listings and throw low bids on things they think might go cheap hoping that one of them will hit. We have to this day a bidder who will jump in on our auctions right at the start hoping that one will go cheap. He actually won one of them about a year ago... but my point is that a casual observer could look at his bid pattern and jump to the same conclusion you did, which is that he is a possible shill, and he isn't; he's just a bargain hunter. In fact the patterns you posted show that this bidder's loyal to 2-3 different sellers in that regard. It may not be as cut and dried as you so adamantly insist.

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but based on what you cut and pasted, if I was suspecting him of shilling for anyone it would be seller #2, not seller #1.

Just because someone bids against you/runs up the price doesn't necessarily make them a shill; it simply makes them a competing bidder.

And I am 'the smartest guy in the room'... as I'm the only one sitting here in my office...

SAM5969

<< <i>News flash...there are plenty of lower (and higher) feedback bidders with similar patterns on ebay and most aren't shills. Many go through new listings and throw low bids on things they think might go cheap hoping that one of them will hit. We have to this day a bidder who will jump in on our auctions right at the start hoping that one will go cheap. He actually won one of them about a year ago... but my point is that a casual observer could look at his bid pattern and jump to the same conclusion you did, which is that he is a possible shill, and he isn't; he's just a bargain hunter. In fact the patterns you posted show that this bidder's loyal to 2-3 different sellers in that regard. It may not be as cut and dried as you so adamantly insist. I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but based on what you cut and pasted, if I was suspecting him of shilling for anyone it would be seller #2, not seller #1. Just because someone bids against you/runs up the price doesn't necessarily make them a shill; it simply makes them a competing bidder. And I am 'the smartest guy in the room'... as I'm the only one sitting here in my office... >>



Good answer telephoto .. and more importantly, great sense of humor .. I admire those qualities.. rare to find them simultaneously

I am not and was not bidding on the item so I had no dog in the fight .. I was intrigued by strength of bid on this item and the seller's other items which caused me to delve a little deeper .. "You may be wrong but you may be right" BJ*

numisma

Don't be shilly.

slipgate

Well this sucks.



Toolhaus gone forever

AMRC

Nevermind

LindeDad

<< <i>News flash...there are plenty of lower (and higher) feedback bidders with similar patterns on ebay and most aren't shills. Many go through new listings and throw low bids on things they think might go cheap hoping that one of them will hit. We have to this day a bidder who will jump in on our auctions right at the start hoping that one will go cheap. He actually won one of them about a year ago... but my point is that a casual observer could look at his bid pattern and jump to the same conclusion you did, which is that he is a possible shill, and he isn't; he's just a bargain hunter. In fact the patterns you posted show that this bidder's loyal to 2-3 different sellers in that regard. It may not be as cut and dried as you so adamantly insist.

I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but based on what you cut and pasted, if I was suspecting him of shilling for anyone it would be seller #2, not seller #1.

Just because someone bids against you/runs up the price doesn't necessarily make them a shill; it simply makes them a competing bidder.

And I am 'the smartest guy in the room'... as I'm the only one sitting here in my office... >>



Heritage was listing items on eBay this morning and had a ball putting in low ball bids over coffee, makes for a nice way to see what the market is doing too.

SAM5969

Original post edited to add link to sold items ... How about that 1839 AT Half Dollar with all the bag marks and nasty toning selling for just shy of $1400 .........

lostincoins

Hum interesting that telephoto has the same thought as me and I am wrong but he is right? I have 2 bidders that bid on my stuff when at a low price for the exact reason that they hope to get something cheap but decent for their circulated collection. I just guess everone with a newer account or low purchases must be a shill bidder. Lets get ebay to stop getting new people to sign up. lol

lostincoins

got a lot of raw coins for sale wounder whats fake? the descriptions are a bit off.

MsMorrisine

BIDS 159


ITEMS 81




Percent with this seller ---- 33% (27 items)



Not shill sign

SAM5969

John - That is not correct .. Telephoto offered an explanation to which an open minded reasonable person could accept as plausible whereas you did not

Ms Morrisine - 21 items .. pretty coincidental that the seller has a grand total of 23 items in completed listings (many of which were ended before the conclusion of the auction) and 6 current items of which the same bidder has partaken in bidding and has bid near the end of the auction in all cases .. thereby, IMO, eliminating the possibility of him hunting a bargain

I continue to believe he is bidding on his own items .. To which I really do not care. I have zero interest in anything he is selling .. This is merely an observation and a conclusion drawn that I still believe is the most likely scenario

lostincoins

As I have said before many times " everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong it is" . You have no interest in this seller but you have now driven viewers to those sales. The sales that were canceled of the IHCs could have been because all pics were the back of coins. On the gold $20.00 bidder D**R dropped out of the game at 2500.00 and has not rebid and only 27min remain so I will see if that bidder bids again. With no bid retraction on the bidders account it makes it even less likely to be a shill as most shill bidding tends to over bid a couple of times.

silverpop

ok

do these so called shills have the same IP address?

MsMorrisine

<< <i>As I have said before many times " everyone is entitled to their opinion no matter how wrong it is" . You have no interest in this seller but you have now driven viewers to those sales. The sales that were canceled of the IHCs could have been because all pics were the back of coins. On the gold $20.00 bidder D**R dropped out of the game at 2500.00 and has not rebid and only 27min remain so I will see if that bidder bids again. With no bid retraction on the bidders account it makes it even less likely to be a shill as most shill bidding tends to over bid a couple of times. >>




Sigline spell check - 1 letter at a time

lostincoins

MsMorrisine my sig line is a play on the word numismatist spelled NEWmismatist to represent the fact that I am new to the board and new to the more serious side of collecting. I took this from a different post discussing this topic and asked the person (3tokeepsecret ) Is this ok with you?

lostincoins

nope the bidder did not show up.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>MsMorrisine my sig line is a play on the word numismatist spelled NEWmismatist to represent the fact that I am new to the board and new to the more serious side of collecting. I took this from a different post discussing this topic and asked the person (3tokeepsecret ) Is this ok with you? >>




I know, but it was missing the "m" after "NEW"

I was just screwing around on the misspelling of a purposeful misspelling. I didn't want to come out and say "m" because I wanted to be coy with the misspelled misspelling.

No harm intended and I'm sorry that my playing around upset you.



I was thinking of using that too, but I've got my 1 line's worth already.

lostincoins

Sorry was just messing around I know you did not mean anything by it your one of my faves......

LotsoLuck

People can shill until the cows come home, I'm still only going to pay what I am willing too.

lostincoins

great point and that is the same for me. When I want a coin I put my max bid and walk away if I win I win...