New Topps V Old Topps

runningman

I really couldn't think of a better name for this thread but here goes. Since the market for baseball cards has declined since the early 1990's, are Topps products today printed in smaller quantities than the 70s, 80s, 90s ? Do you think in the future, near or far, we'll be regretting not buying and saving more modern Topps product as prices increase ?

blee1

I think it has to be much smaller quantities, but much better quality.

I also don't think you'll ever get the younger collecting focus as we had, and here's my thoughts why.....
When I was younger, we didn't have sport channels, the internet, and all these other avenues to follow my favorite players and teams.
Basically all I had was football cards, the Sunday paper, NFL today, books, magazines.

olb31

my guess would be that less are printed today than 70's and 80's. with 15 different types or more for topps, they probably print lesser per brand but more in total for all 15 brands.

WhiteTornado

<< <i>I think it has to be much smaller quantities, but much better quality.

I also don't think you'll ever get the younger collecting focus as we had, and here's my thoughts why.....
When I was younger, we didn't have sport channels, the internet, and all these other avenues to follow my favorite players and teams.
Basically all I had was football cards, the Sunday paper, NFL today, books, magazines. >>



I'm going with this theory.

dtkk49a

Much less is being made of one product, but much more of it is being preserved in high grade, so with few exceptions, most modern is totally worthless and always will be. A lot of that 80's junk wax is also worthless, not sure why there is a buying frenzy lately. There are some awesome modern cards out there for sure, but you want a HOF player in a PSA 10 holder or its worthless.

bishop

I have collected all the Topps sets, including the new stuff, but for fun and enjoyment, not as an investment. Since 2001 I have added the Topps Heritage sets along with the Standard sets. I tend to like them better.

I also did Fleer baseball 1923 and 1959 to 2007.

With the exception of a few of the scarce oddball Topps sets of the 80s and some unique single card editions thereafter, and some scarce error variation cards, I do not think most of my post 80 cards would not bring what I paid for them if sold.

digicat

<< <i>so with few exceptions, most modern is totally worthless and always will be. >>



My worthless collection gets kinda expensive sometimes.

3BoyzTrading

Never mind the brand. In 1980, you had one choice for a Rickey Henderson. In 1982 you had 4 choices for Cal Ripken. By 1987, there were probably 8. Today, there are fifteen brands to choose from. Worthless? No they will not be in the long term. Hundreds and thousands for a PSA 10....not unless it's autographed.

TheMick6

When I was younger and working in a card shop during the boom of the mid to late eighties most that came in thought of mid to late seventies as ugly junk to. I realize that grading and condition scarcity has a part in the boom on 70's stuff lately but alot of it is nostalgia to. I don't see late 80's getting that way but you never know.

mygotta

My opinion is that there are fewer printed in the 70's. Increase in early 80's. Over-saturation in the late 80's and throughout the 90's and partially into the 2000's. Once Topps realized this, they changed the way they designed the packs.

With no competition from Fleer, Donruss or Upper Deck, Topps is pretty much the Federal Reserve on baseball cards. They determine the value of the card by how many is printed. But they cheat the customer, in my opinion. How?

They make a limited amount of, say, Topps Turkey Reds. And maybe a small amount of Topps Hertiage Update Set. And then a smattering of Topps Archives. While in general, the base set gets printed by the truck load. But the caveat to all of this is, even though, per set might be less than the 70's. the entire bulk of everything printed - Topps, Topps Chrome, Topps Heritage, Topps Heritage Minor Leagues, Topps Archives, Topps Update, Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Bowman Draft Picks, and a few odd and end sets throughout the year, far out do what was available from the 70's.

That is 9 major sets they release in the year! How many of these do you see at Target? Almost all of these. Which means, maybe not the special cards, but the basic card is getting printed to an undesirable degree. A 1980 George Brett card, his 5th year - is the only card available. This will be Bryce Harpers third year and he has about 1,000 different cards to his name. And the basic card is worth as much as Al Bumbry.

mbz430e

I must agree that the Heritage series has brought me back to the youth years of my collecting. My 13 year old loves the hobby and loves Heritage. He finds a sense of accomplishment by completing a card set. The sense of accomplishment is what is missing from the hobby now. The kids see it as nothing but a cash grab and have very little interest in the history of the game. Card collecting will never be what it was when we were kids and that's a shame. Affordability is worth a footnote. Cards when we were kids=$ Cards now=$$$$

TheMick6

Does anyone think Topps could just fix this over saturation issue by reducing quality control, going to older card stock and go back to making an off center slightly out if focus card the norm and not a mint to gem right out if the pack? I know it would make most die hard collectors like myself ecstatic!

digicat

<< <i>That is 9 major sets they release in the year! How many of these do you see at Target? Almost all of these. Which means, maybe not the special cards, but the basic card is getting printed to an undesirable degree. A 1980 George Brett card, his 5th year - is the only card available. This will be Bryce Harpers third year and he has about 1,000 different cards to his name. And the basic card is worth as much as Al Bumbry. >>



You don't need to collect them all. Personally, I can't stand the "retro" sets like Heritage, Archives, Turkey Red, etc. The only Topps brands that I'll collect from are the flagship set and prospects from Bowman Chrome. If a Giants player slips through the cracks and ends up on one of the other sets instead, then I'll go get it individually.

digicat

<< <i>Does anyone think Topps could just fix this over saturation issue by reducing quality control, going to older card stock and go back to making an off center slightly out if focus card the norm and not a mint to gem right out if the pack? I know it would make most die hard collectors like myself ecstatic! >>



Isn't that what Heritage is?

TheMick6

I love heritage but the cards are still near perfect out of the pack. Open up a 81 topps or late seventies and pulling a centered well focused card is like finding a diamond in the rough. It would only help fuel the grading craze. Ever seen a graded 2014 common? If it where 81 topps quality you might. Just a thought

digicat

<< <i>I love heritage but the cards are still near perfect out of the pack. Open up a 81 topps or late seventies and pulling a centered well focused card is like finding a diamond in the rough. It would only help fuel the grading craze. Ever seen a graded 2014 common? If it where 81 topps quality you might. Just a thought >>



My experience with Heritage was a bunch of cards with corner and/or surface issues.

According to the pop report, three 2014 Topps Jonny Gomes base cards have been graded. !!?!?

TheMick6

I'm not interested in a debate it was just a thought relax. I'd assume most open packs of heritage and find well centered nice shape cards. On the other hand a 79 Smith in a 9 boarders on crazy to ridiculous price wise and a ten is out of reach to all but the extremely wealthy. It's obvious you like newer cards, hope you have a cardboard box full of gem mint Harpers!

runningman

Certainly the amount of collectors has decreased and because of other options for kids, there is no reason to believe the amount of collectors will increase in the future. That being said, I must confess that I never thought we would see these kind of prices for modern unopened material. I love 1983 Topps baseball, it is one of my favorites but when you can buy a set for 30-40 dollars and a BBCE wrapped box costs 250 I just can't justify it, not even for fun which honestly is the only reason I collect. I realize some of my stuff has value but I still enjoy busting and set building. I was just wondering if some of the product we see being sale priced by Dave and Adams for example is worth a look, will we regret not loading up on this stuff now.

digicat

<< <i>I'm not interested in a debate it was just a thought relax. I'd assume most open packs of heritage and find well centered nice shape cards. On the other hand a 79 Smith in a 9 boarders on crazy to ridiculous price wise and a ten is out of reach to all but the extremely wealthy. It's obvious you like newer cards, hope you have a cardboard box full of gem mint Harpers! >>



Don't get me wrong, the only modern I collect are of Giants players, and even then I tend to avoid getting graded modern cards, or getting modern cards graded unless I think I can flip it for a quick profit.



But I won't argue with you about QA sucking in the 80s and earlier. But I still think that people who spend $$$ to get high grade commons are a bit more crazy than the average collector.

TheMick6

I'm not at all worried about less and less collectors. I think the hobby has only seen a dramatic increase actually. The memerobilia market is just crazy. Everyone wants a mancave! I think what has happened is the hobby is populated by true die hard collectors. I always thought the boom years were just populated by investers who thought they'd make millions but if I used the phrase Wille, Mickey and The Duke around them they just gave me a blank stare?! I actually like a little baseball/sports talk when at a show shelling out big bucks for cards/memerobilia. Just how I am.

ScottishPunk

I agree with some of the earlier posters. Newer cards will only go down in value (speaking of 99 percentile). Any money to be made is done within the first few weeks of the new product and selling the inserts and SPs. Being the the first to market when the craze is the highest, after which is a slow steady decline until it reaches its level. Superstars of today can never reach the "hype" when they make the pros. I would be interested to see how Strasburg's and Harper's cards trend from early crazy market to now. Do you really think Trout cards have a lot of room to grow? It is a different market now, base cards and set builders are a dying breed. It is all about the super short print auto chrome refractors.

I also agree with the sentiment that even though there are less cases being printed for a set, there just is so many different sets that it is still a flooded market. No you don't have to collect them all, but it does degrade the rarity or uniqueness of any particular player's RC. I chuckle when I think there is actually more of some retired veteran cards produced in one calendar year now than almost there entire run of their playing days.

TheMick6

I think part of the problem is the perceived value of these cards right out of the pack due to a small print run. How special is a 1 of 1 when that same player probably has 100's of 1 of 1's and will only have more the next year. I understand that if Topps went back to older days and just produced regular sets collectors would rebel if only because the new norm is the likelihood if finding a crazy short printed card. It's an irreversible trend and the only recourse is to find a niche you enjoy. New Topps product is so redundant that I laugh when guys drop 500 on a box with two packs in it for cards that look exactly like ones from the last years issue. I mean how many Evan longoria autos have to hit the market for them to be worthless?

ScottishPunk

<< <i>I think part of the problem is the perceived value of these cards right out of the pack due to a small print run. How special is a 1 of 1 when that same player probably has 100's of 1 of 1's and will only have more the next year. I understand that if Topps went back to older days and just produced regular sets collectors would rebel if only because the new norm is the likelihood if finding a crazy short printed card. It's an irreversible trend and the only recourse is to find a niche you enjoy. New Topps product is so redundant that I laugh when guys drop 500 on a box with two packs in it for cards that look exactly like ones from the last years issue. I mean how many Evan longoria autos have to hit the market for them to be worthless? >>



I don't get the appeal of all the rainbows. Sure I like having a refractor over a base, I just don't care for having 12 versions of the same card with different colors and /##s. Maybe just a regular, refractor /500, and a 1/1 for those high spenders. I see people now buy a box and throw out all the cards that aren't numbered of some kind.

digicat

<< <i>Wille, Mickey and The Duke >>



I'll admit that the first thing that came to mind when I read the above was:

Willie Mays, Mickey Mouse, and John Wayne.

TheMick6

One outta three is better than a blank stare I guess

mygotta

I just went to target and bought a few packs. It cost me $20 for 6 pack of cards. I realized it is more like buying a lottery ticket of sorts. In terms of value, it is all dependent on whether you "hit", meaning getting a chrome autographed or some sort of limited card. Everything else is to be determined on the value. If you get your favorite current player, then that is good. But otherwise modern packs are searching for that big hit.

But in some ways the older packs are like that in a different way.

mbz430e

Beautiful exchange.....I've been registered for some time but have just recently become an active member for this reason; Passion for the hobby and being able to agree to disagree. Much easier than politics! I believe for a modern set, Heritage has done a great job of factory collation and creating challenges towards completion. Will they ever have long term value like the vintage cards? I doubt it, but it has brought the enjoyment of set building back to the hobby....BRAVO Topps!

John