Coin shop buy/sell spread

stevepk

One common complaint of coin collectors is how expensive coins are, yet when they are brought into coin shops, dealers hardly want to pay anything for them. I personally try my best to avoid a middle-man when selling coins and make every effort to sell directly to another collector. This requires patience.

One of the many alternatives to finding a buyer yourself is to bring your coins to a brick and mortar coin shop. The dealer will typically offer an amount that allows him to resell those coins for a profit. Dealer profits will vary. What is a typical buy/sell spread in a retail coin shop?

In addition to coin collecting, I also enjoy video games. Gamestop is one of the biggest buyers of used video games in the retail industry. Gamestop usually pays 10% of their sticker price for games in low demand and 25% to 40% for games in higher demand that are expected not to sit on the shelf very long. I rarely pay more than $20 for a video game. By the time the game is two or three years old, it is no longer the hottest item and worth about two dollars to Gamestop. I chose to keep the game rather than donate it. This is fine by me. Twenty dollars in chump change.

Coins often are not chump change. I consider myself a very selective buyer and only buy eye appealing coins with genuine numismatic merit. Of course, eye appeal is subjective, but I would like to think I have a good eye. I do plenty of research before making a purchase. I probably overpay sometimes, but try my best to pay a reasonable amount. I've sold coins directly to collectors in the past and made a profit nearly every time. A few times I broke even. This supports my conclusion that I do not have a tendency to overpay for coins.

Are coin shop mark-ups comparable to Gamestop's markups? Should I assume my coins are worth no more than 40% of what I paid if I take them into a coin shop? I know 'it depends' will be an easy answer to this question, but can anyone provide a typical markup coins brought into a coin shop? I understand dreck will sit in inventory forever and will have a higher markup than quality material that will sell quickly. This post addresses the quality material.

Casman

My last trip to the B&M the guy offered me $10 for a coin that was selling in the $150 range. I had multiple and figured $75 would be fair...The guy made me work and do it myself.

PerryHall

I'd like to hear Keet's take on this issue.

Greeniejr

It really depends on the item, the quantity and the liquidity of the item. For gold bullion in small quantities you might expect a 4-5% spread between bid and ask. For silver bullion it might be 10%. On high value rare coins you might see a spread of 15-35%. On quantities of cheap stuff or bulk material that does not sell you might get 25%-50% of the perceived retail value.

SurfinxHI

I had a good experience at a coin shop in Dover, DE this last week. I asked for two coins to be priced, and was given the grey sheet bid prices. I have no idea what he originally purchased then for...but when at a local coin show and I'm buying from other collectors, I buy at 15-20% back of grey sheet, and sell at grey sheet bid. Therefore, I thought this was a fair deal in my mind. He also gave me spot price on bullion in trade, toward the two coins, again, a fair deal. So.....I'd think it depends, but when you find a price that you think is fair, then buy. If not, walk on. And I doubt many dealers are going to say what there exact spreads are, cuz, again, it depends....

RedTiger

Every shop is different. That said for numismatic coins, some ballpark numbers: a $20 value raw coin might get a $3 to $5 cash offer at a shop. At $100 retail value maybe $50 for raw, maybe $60 if certified. At $500 certified, maybe a $300 offer. Most store dealers will not pay any more for toning or possible quality. Ugly coins may get no offer or a back of bullion value offer. Steady customers will usually get a stronger offer than a new walk in. Many dealers size up the seller and offer as low as possible. The lowest of the low play their customers as marks and may even collude with other dealers in town on bigger deals to get the best rip possible and pay the seller as little as possible. Some dealers are honest, and for them a $50 offer on a $100 retail value coin is ballpark. As bad as these numbers may seem, pawn shops usually offer less than coin dealers. Hotel room buyers that take out newspaper ads even less than many pawn shops.

Bullion is a different animal, and many will post a spread based on the bullion price. Active shops will have a tighter spread than the not so active shops.

SeattleSlammer

As RedTiger accurately summarized, you're generally gonna get a hose job offer from a B&M dealer. Now let the B&M dealers chime in and complain about their overhead, the hardships of the market, the inaccuracies of price guides, blah, blah, blah......

I like the OP's idea to make every effort to sell to the next collector....collector to collector...and cut out the middle man.

God bless the BST!

TwoSides2aCoin

If I like it, it's possible I'll pay close to what a seller wishes. If I don't need it or don't like it, chances are a seller might feel insulted, but I try to explain my reasoning with each person and with each coin. And I remember that the customer is always right, even if I believe otherwise. This may or may not lead to a meeting of the minds. If not, such is life. If so, well and good.

It's always the customer first. Always. I understand the common collector's perceptions from their experiences with dealers, so often a dealer likes to know what a collector is thinking so he can "reason". Not so he can "cheat". Fair enough ?

EastonCollection

I feel that a majority of B&M coin shops will try to take advantage of sellers that walk into the shop. If the shop owner doesn't know the seller that I feel that the shop owner will offer only a fraction of the coin(s) value. I remember a time when a woman walked into a coin shop with draped bust dollars and was offered only $150 to $250 per coin. The woman accepted the offer and the dealer sold the coins for well over $1500 each. Clearly, shop owners take advantage of the situation.

Cougar1978

I would suggest you not worry about it. Try out different shops in your area and see if you can get the coins you want at what you consider a decent price. Coins are a hobby related retail business like model airplanes or model railroading.

Going to a shop can be an exciting numismatic adventure. Years ago every payday I would set aside some money to spend at one of my favorite shops. I would go there and buy the coins I wanted until I had spent my budget. In researching buys, I might have a price guide with me like CW Trends or NN Coin Market.

Cougar1978

Really lol. I would like to buy coins at your coin shop if all he wants is wholesale bid. And send those guys selling 25% back of bid to my table at the next show.

mr1931S

One common complaint of coin collectors is how expensive coins are, yet when they are brought into coin shops, dealers hardly want to pay anything for them

Oftentimes the coins don't deserve anything but low offer.The dealer doesn't necessarily want or need everything that walks through his shop door so will make a low offer hoping it will be rejected.Also,many collectors are unrealistic about the value of their coins.

magikbilly

Last time I went into a B&M I had calculated $1200 for a few coins and an offer of $1100 the B&M. I spent a little time working this out (what I paid etc., $1200), B&M gent spent much more time with the glass, book and PC...I was out with $1100 as calculated (it was the most I saw him offering and the least I would take). That was very long ago and I had strong dimes. This was before I attempted my 1941 Proof set, and before I started with the Proof 10C Seated though Roosevelt '50.
In general, I see folks get 1/3. On eBay, items I deal in bring 1/3 value at most when bought/sold all "raw" and unidentified. I see 1/3 a lot. I'll pay more and it is worth it. I am selling of some of my collections now, personal stuff I "overpaid" for, and am very happy.

Eric

PS - forgot to mention I knew the dealer for about 25 years and none of the coins came from him.

PSS - Edit for clarity.

jdimmick

The comments about game stop are right on, My sons works there while he is attending college in florida. I always asked him why they even bother buying games that no one plays even though at a low price. He said they go back to corporate and are dispersed elsewhere.

anyway,

some of the local coin shops buy extremely low and continually take advantage of people who do not know. (I ran a B & M ) for several years and tried to pay fair as I could. This has actually helped me long after closing the B & M from referrals of past customers.


Just in the past month, I know about several instances just around here where people were literally screwed beyond belief

Old couple brought in complete proof sets from 1936 to 1942 , were paid 100 each for the sets.
Original rolls of several morgans were brought in by an old couple and paid $5.00 per coin, many were submitted and obtained ms65 and even a few 66's.

and to top this off, older gentleman who died this past year, widow took 4 totes of stuff into a coin shop in the Raleigh area, was paid 5k for everything. there was in excess of 200k in wholesale value. contained 2 complete sets of morgans, numerous $10 and $20 gold coins and tons of other type coins, etc.

These are factual events in the past three months that I know about . Pure sickening!

keets

I'd like to hear Keet's take on this issue.

the problem with my "take" on it is that most collectors have themselves to blame for much of what takes place in a negative way in a B&M, and their minds are made up regarding an opinion of dealers as a whole. that means that unless I say something like "All dealers are scum and B&M's are rip-factories!!" I will be harangued by most members, but you already knew that.

kaz

Actually, Al, I would be interested in your opinion on the content of posts 4-6 in the thread. They are pretty much confined to the question posed in the o.p.

BAJJERFAN

Do most shops buy their bullion [silver and gold] from the big places like APMEX, DBcoins, JMBullion, etc.? If so, why should they offer me less than what they can buy it for from those places?

slipgate

If you need to sell in a hurry, you will be at the mercy of the dealer and will be lucky to get 1/2 the going rate. If you can take your time and sell collector to collector, of course you will do much better.

bestday

<< <i>Do most shops buy their bullion [silver and gold] from the big places like APMEX, DBcoins, JMBullion, etc.? If so, why should they offer me less than what they can buy it for from those places? >>



B&Ms offer generic buy prices for coins..and then carefully check the value before they sell... such as a 2008 PCGS prf 70 Gold buffalo was offered a buy price of $30 over spot.. batch of 1951..1952 Proof Franklins....$ 15 each....2006 Anniv gold 3 pc set...125.00 over spot
Collectors need to be careful when selling

Wabbit2313

If you know what you are doing, you are rarely going to make a deal selling your coins to a local shop, or will you even try. I know that and so do they. That said, I buy coins at little shops all the time!

TwoSides2aCoin

Bend over , Mister. I'll teach you " the spread."

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Do most shops buy their bullion [silver and gold] from the big places like APMEX, DBcoins, JMBullion, etc.? If so, why should they offer me less than what they can buy it for from those places? >>



B&Ms offer generic buy prices for coins..and then carefully check the value before they sell... such as a 2008 PCGS prf 70 Gold buffalo was offered a buy price of $30 over spot.. batch of 1951..1952 Proof Franklins....$ 15 each....2006 Anniv gold 3 pc set...125.00 over spot
Collectors need to be careful when selling >>



Obviously one needs to know the value of what they have. Suppose one has a monster box of 2014 silver eagles. How much would you expect that your local B&M should pay you for them?

Weiss

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't see my B&M as a 2-way market. Any more than I'd see a car dealership or a gun shop as a 2-way market.

I'm a great customer to my B&M. I buy from him all the time. But I rarely sell to him. It's not that he won't give me what I want. It's because he can't give me what I want and stay in business.

I buy from my B&M. I sell to the general market via eBay, or our own BST. In the same way that I'd sell my used car on Craigslist before I'd even consider selling to the car dealership.

topstuf

We need a thread devoted to the myriad simple "RUSES" that coin owners employ when trying to sell to a B&M shop.

How much will you pay for this? Oh thanks. A buddy wants it and I wanted to be fair to him.

I'm getting bids all over town for this wonderful item.

Okay for that one. Now how about this one? Do I want to sell the first one? I don't know yet.

These aren't mine but I'd like to know what they're worth for my mom.

No, I don't want to pay for an appraisal for the whole collection. Let's just see what you will pay one at a time.


Gladly retired from this crap!

TwoSides2aCoin

If coin collectors are "selling" monster boxes of 2014 Eagles, are they collectors ?

jdimmick

Most B & M's its not the bullion buys where they make there big scores, its the diamonds in the rough. The early gold type coin, or the gem ms-66 morgan or the 1893 s

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>If coin collectors are "selling" monster boxes of 2014 Eagles, are they collectors ? >>



Obviously they aren't collectors of 2014 ASES!

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>Most B & M's its not the bullion buys where they make there big scores, its the diamonds in the rough. The early gold type coin, or the gem ms-66 morgan or the 1893 s >>



Most white men can't jump, except at an opportunity to screw someone. Is that what you're saying ?

ARCO

From my experience (which isn't a whole lot). A B&M will offer 60-50% of the retail price. You will get about half from a dealer vs selling it to another collector.

Tyler

TwoSides2aCoin

<< <i>From my experience (which isn't a whole lot). A B&M will offer 60-50% of the retail price. You will get about half from a dealer vs selling it to another collector.

Tyler >>


Hi Tyler,

I would agree that a B&M is under no obligation to buy anything. If a lowball price is put out there, keep in mind it's a nice way (for many dealers) of saying : "I have no clue of the real value, or I don't really want the item ".

Coinflip

<< <i>I had a good experience at a coin shop in Dover, DE this last week. I asked for two coins to be priced, and was given the grey sheet bid prices. I have no idea what he originally purchased then for...but when at a local coin show and I'm buying from other collectors, I buy at 15-20% back of grey sheet, and sell at grey sheet bid. Therefore, I thought this was a fair deal in my mind. He also gave me spot price on bullion in trade, toward the two coins, again, a fair deal. So.....I'd think it depends, but when you find a price that you think is fair, then buy. If not, walk on. And I doubt many dealers are going to say what there exact spreads are, cuz, again, it depends.... >>

I walked in and showed this guy (2) coins with subjective NGC grade prices near $1000 and he offered me greysheet for them. on another occurrence I picked thru his entire inventory and when it came time to square up he tried to charge me 3x the price, basicly I did all the work for him despite his ignorance. I wish I could have someone go thru my inventory, mark them up outrageously, then just set them aside and look at them later. Just bad experiences every time I walk in there. On another note..They make most of their money there ripping walkins of silver/gold and picking up rarities here and there for melt.

topstuf

About the worst thing a B&M dealer can do is .....want... the damn thing.

In my experience, high offers either prompt sellers to keep the coin ....
or....
get so flustered that they then believe it ...MUST... be worth MILLIONS!

It's a VERY shallow learning curve.

The public is fickle, stupid, and convinced they are being screwed whether or not they are and they are ...usually.... so misinformed and ignorant of their possession that any transaction is pure luck.

It's why the GOOD coins trade between dealers at shows only.

But I can remember the 1960's and 70's when that was not true and building a VERY nice set was possible at coin shops nationwide.

It was FUN then.


Now..... nope.

TwoSides2aCoin

For those in doubt, PM me. I can get 9 guys into a group chat in Skype and a GROUP THINK TANK can play "dealer for a day".
Of course, "my customers" will have to agree to be in "conference". And we will see who knows their stuff.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>If coin collectors are "selling" monster boxes of 2014 Eagles, are they collectors ? >>



If I walk into your shop with a monster box of 2014 ASEs, would you pay me the same price as you would your regular supplier? Yes or no?

keets

Actually, Al, I would be interested in your opinion on the content of posts 4-6 in the thread.

I bet you would, but how interested are you in the page two reply by topstuf??

most collectors who have a deeply held negative opinion of dealers would enjoy having to spend some time on the other side of the counter. I did just that and it has been enlightening, educational, frustrating and enjoyable as it has made me a better collector. also, many respondents to this thread would be surprised at the number of loyal customers we have, and from everything I see that is the norm. at any show in any city there are loyal customers who frequent a dealer's table(or store) day after day, year after year.

why is that?? are they stupid?? have they just settled on the dealer who cheats them the least?? did the dealer(s) convince them that he's the best around??

nwcoast

I have been hosed by dealers before I knew better.
Now that I know more, and who I can trust, I've done better.
There are only two dealers in my area that I trust enough to sell to.
They generally pay 10% back of Greysheet bid and sell (to me anyways) at GS ask.
I've done considerable business with several others and we can leave it at that.
There are some trustworthy folks out there... Just got to find them.

AMRC

<< <i> It's because he can't give me what I want and stay in business.

>>



People can debate about what is fair, or what is not, but this is the truth. You cannot pay the rent, taxes, insurance etc on a coin shop with a 10% margin. Not for long, and it is unfair to say the Owner of that establishment is "ripping you off." They are offering you what makes sense to them. Not you. You do not pay their bills. And last time I checked they do not all have Maserati's and mansions.

Having said all that I have seen a local B&M offer 50% on a 5 figure coin (so I am not saying it does not happen). That is not them ripping a person off, that is bad business and will also not keep the doors open very long. But it is really good for me since it drives business my way.

bestday

<< <i>

<< <i> It's because he can't give me what I want and stay in business.

>>



People can debate about what is fair, or what is not, but this is the truth. You cannot pay the rent, taxes, insurance etc on a coin shop with a 10% margin. Not for long, and it is unfair to say the Owner of that establishment is "ripping you off." They are offering you what makes sense to them. Not you. You do not pay their bills. And last time I checked they do not all have Maserati's and mansions.

Having said all that I have seen a local B&M offer 50% on a 5 figure coin (so I am not saying it does not happen). That is not them ripping a person off, that is bad business and will also not keep the doors open very long. But it is really good for me since it drives business my way. >>



When you see the dealer looking at the Bluesheet..just walk out.... you will be getting 40-50% of value ....even MS66 morgans

TwoSides2aCoin

Not being a bullion dealer makes it easier to address your question, Bajj. A coin shop and a bullion dealer met at the bar …. Is there a punchline ?

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Not being a bullion dealer makes it easier to address your question, Bajj. A coin shop and a bullion dealer met at the bar …. Is there a punchline ? >>



Well it's really just a "for instance" kind of thing. It just defies common sense that walkin traffic gets one price while "mail order" vendors get a different price. Same coins and there is also the advantage of having the coins for sale now. Also I'm just being a chit stirrer!

MGLICKER

<< <i>Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't see my B&M as a 2-way market. >>



Well said Weiss. I only sell to my go to guy in town when he contacts me about a coin that I have in stock.

Wabbit2313

The example above, about pulling some coins out and then the idiot raising the price on those:

Just last week I am at a shop while traveling. After looking for a while I pull out a Trade dollar that he has marked cleaned right on the 2X2. He immediately tells me it is not for sale since he is going to send it in for grading. I say, "you have it marked cleaned"! (Which it was, and a piece of junk by the way) He mumbles something and takes the coin away.

Now the fun starts and something I do often when I come across these jokers. I offer double of what he is asking. We all know there is no way this dude is selling that coin now! Will he send it in? I hope so.

keets

It just defies common sense that walkin traffic gets one price while "mail order" vendors get a different price.

it only defies common sense if you want it to, it makes perfect sense to me. to use the example you put forth, 1.)the walk-in customer has asked for an offer on an item from a dealer and 2.)the dealer has placed an order with a vendor. one is retail while the other is wholesale dealer-to-dealer, why would you expect the prices to be the same??

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>It just defies common sense that walkin traffic gets one price while "mail order" vendors get a different price.

it only defies common sense if you want it to, it makes perfect sense to me. to use the example you put forth, 1.)the walk-in customer has asked for an offer on an item from a dealer and 2.)the dealer has placed an order with a vendor. one is retail while the other is wholesale dealer-to-dealer, why would you expect the prices to be the same?? >>



By ordering from a vendor, he has established a price he is WILLING to pay. My coins are worth the same. Would it matter if I walked in and said that that I will sell these for what the big bullion houses are asking? I suppose that you can twist semantics around and say that asking how much will you give somehow makes them worth one price and how much do you want makes them worth another price.

EVillageProwler

There are good and bad folks in every industry, but it is awfully hard to know what is "good" and what is "bad" according to the norms of that industry if you haven't walked a mile in their shoes. It's like those politicians trying to judge folks on the ground after a major incident when they have no practical experience relevant to that incident.

Additionally, I think it is bad form to make Keets the effigy of all that constitutes B&M dealerships...

EVP

Bochiman

<< <i>I have been hosed by dealers before I knew better.
Now that I know more, and who I can trust, I've done better.
There are only two dealers in my area that I trust enough to sell to.
They generally pay 10% back of Greysheet bid and sell (to me anyways) at GS ask.
I've done considerable business with several others and we can leave it at that.
There are some trustworthy folks out there... Just got to find them. >>




Who?

Dave99B

I discussed this with a B&M owner about 10 years ago. He said he would typically offer about 60%-65% of what the items were worth, and he'd wholesale everything out at the end of each week...and he bought a lot of material. But when you consider the cost of rent, utilities, insurance, payroll, etc....things can add up fast. I thought he was very fair.

He would pay more, of course, for gold...as I recall, 90%, and even higher for very large quantities.

Dave

Tibor

Ask "keets" sometimes what all is involved with operating a shop. You
would be surprised. If the the coins you are selling are "raw" there is
a reason; they are most likely not worth slabbing. On the other hand
the dealer might not agree with the TPG grade.

telephoto1

<< <i>

<< <i>It just defies common sense that walkin traffic gets one price while "mail order" vendors get a different price.

it only defies common sense if you want it to, it makes perfect sense to me. to use the example you put forth, 1.)the walk-in customer has asked for an offer on an item from a dealer and 2.)the dealer has placed an order with a vendor. one is retail while the other is wholesale dealer-to-dealer, why would you expect the prices to be the same?? >>



By ordering from a vendor, he has established a price he is WILLING to pay. My coins are worth the same. Would it matter if I walked in and said that that I will sell these for what the big bullion houses are asking? I suppose that you can twist semantics around and say that asking how much will you give somehow makes them worth one price and how much do you want makes them worth another price. >>



What defies common sense is the notion that dealers are somehow all obligated to pay or sell at the exact same amount to everyone regardless of the situation.

If I can get these any time I want them from the vendor at $x per, then what exactly is my motivation to pay you the same exact amount? You aren't a "vendor" and you came to me; I never placed an order...so "common sense" would dictate that a) I likely don't need them and certainly b)unless I am supplied with some incentive to purchase them I'll likely pass, particularly in the monster box example. They tie up significant cash flow for very little gain.

And using that same ASE box example... assuming I had said box, undoubtedly someone else will want to buy ASE at that same wholesale price, proudly crowing about how "I know what you guys pay from the vendor so you ain't gettin' rich off of me"...of course, their demand for wholesale prices is based on their potential wholesale purchase of perhaps, say, three pieces...

I do so enjoy these dealer-bashing threads, particularly the comments from all the experts on what amounts dealers will sell at and/or should pay for something. Do please continue.

Amigo

I agree, it's upsetting to know about big scores Dealers make from the unsuspecting. I know a Dealer that bought a $40k retail gold coin for melt from a walkin etc etc

I agree with Weiss

Keep in mind that a business owner is there to make a profit. I would expect a smaller volume B&M to be able to clear $40-50k with the rest of the salary to be made up in having fun with the public. A moderately busy store to net $100k+. If not, what's the point in running the bussiness when there are alternative ways to make money. A store can only stay in bussiness from taking a piece of each pie that walks into the door. It's hard to make a living always buying dreck that's hard to move.

Lets say you take in a $50 retail coin, Dealer buys for 50% at $25. The Dealer to maximize every penny has hired help photo/list/emails/packages/mails costing wages of $10 by the time said employee goofs around getting the job done. If you don't think an employee is going to cost you that much in the end, then you haven't ran a business.. Sells for $40 ebay, nets $33 after free ship/fees - 10 wages, and nets $23 in the end loosing 2 bucks in the process. Then you figure there's more dreck walking in the shop than the employee can reasonably ebay list, soon you're stuck with buckets of things in inventory that you really don't need any more. I can see the buy price dropping real quick to $10 on a $50 item. Can it work any other way for a business owner ? It's easy to see the temptation to steal from little ole ladies to make up the bottom line.

For me, coin stores are for retail buyers and ignorant sellers. They don't occupy any of my time. Although, I understand we need them to keep the hobby humming.

I figure Dealers are just frustrated collectors that learned the best way to not loose their shirt was to figure out how to buy direct from the public. If your collection consist of only coins bought from Dealers, then you've housed and fed the Dealer and his family, unless you're an exceptional wheeler/dealer type.

coinsarefun

<< <i>Bend over , Mister. I'll teach you " the spread." >>







Now thats a knee slapper