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Barclay's manipulating gold? Say it ain't so Joe6P.
roadrunner
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Barclay's fined for gold manipulation
Of course it was a "rogue" trader once again because we all know gold is not illegally manipulated. Coincidentally, the day of this mini-puke was June 28th 2012, the last low of that summer. Just the day before, they were fined for manipulating Libor....lol. Oddly, June 28th 2013 was also a major-puke day for gold. Have to wonder if Barclay's was playing on that day as well?
They don't call it the "gold fixing" for nothing.
They only got caught once. That means they were clean the previous 8 years.
Of course it was a "rogue" trader once again because we all know gold is not illegally manipulated. Coincidentally, the day of this mini-puke was June 28th 2012, the last low of that summer. Just the day before, they were fined for manipulating Libor....lol. Oddly, June 28th 2013 was also a major-puke day for gold. Have to wonder if Barclay's was playing on that day as well?
They don't call it the "gold fixing" for nothing.
They only got caught once. That means they were clean the previous 8 years.
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Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>But... but... there must be a mistake. There are posters here that keep saying there is no manipulation in the gold market... just normal supply and demand in action and is all to be expected..... >>
Wonder if this was predicted by Coho's chart.
<< <i>But... but... there must be a mistake. There are posters here that keep saying there is no manipulation in the gold market... just normal supply and demand in action and is all to be expected..... >>
there is manipulation and then theres manipulation, not the same...
the pm doomers issue is if they havent already recognized... is you can manipulate what is relatively what this article is about, which is prices at close, but you cant manipulate a trend...
its all really how one defines manipulation... little pic, big pic...
<< <i>there is manipulation and then theres manipulation, not the same...
the pm doomers issue is if they havent already recognized... is you can manipulate what is relatively what this article is about, which is prices at close, but you cant manipulate a trend... its all really how one defines manipulation... little pic, big pic... >>
Appears the regulators who levied the hefty fine in this case have a clear definition - probably no different than how most here define manipulation. There would be many more cases (particularly in the US) if regulators weren't afraid to do their job. Look for continued exposure of the "little" cases while the "big" cases remain too big to jail. Don't confuse PM believers with PM doomers; dollar doomers is what we are.
Keep an open mind, or get financially repressed -Zoltan Pozsar
<< <i>
<< <i>But... but... there must be a mistake. There are posters here that keep saying there is no manipulation in the gold market... just normal supply and demand in action and is all to be expected..... >>
Wonder if this was predicted by Coho's chart.
I'm sorry.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
or to create the impression that reckless debt monetization doesn't cause gold prices to rise
I knew it would happen.
<< <i> gold was manipulated down from 1900 to 1200 to enrich the bankers and Chinese
or to create the impression that reckless debt monetization doesn't cause gold prices to rise >>
Some impression.
Funny thing about the story is that I doubt there is a broker alive that did not "paint the tape" by placing a trade in the last second to get a favorable print. In the old days of 25c spreads, a trade at the offer could make a portfolio look $2500 higher. This was great at the end of quarter or end of month. Or at end of month that is also end of quarter (june 28 for example). Even gets a few folks out of a margin call situation.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Some impression.
Funny thing about the story is that I doubt there is a broker alive that did not "paint the tape" by placing a trade in the last second to get a favorable print. In the old days of 25c spreads, a trade at the offer could make a portfolio look $2500 higher. This was great at the end of quarter or end of month. Or at end of month that is also end of quarter (june 28 for example). Even gets a few folks out of a margin call situation. >>
You're probably right. This lone trader instituted a "mini-crash" to avoid paying out on a substantial gold contract. Now what if you get a dozen or more banks all lined up at a more critical time....let's say on April 11th 2013?
Not to be outdone by Barclays, GS and JPM now being sued for "possible" manipulation of Zinc contracts in 2010. These guys used up so much paint in previous years, I don't know if they have any left to paint the current tapes.
Have you seen the price of paint lately? The trading desks at the big banks and hedge funds often go an entire quarter (or year) w/o a single losing day. Why do they need to manipulate prices too? Wouldn't 90% per quarter be
a good enough batting average? Or is this what the CEO's mean by 100% sustainability?
Zinc not to be left out of the party
A "run" on paint? But now that the story is out, it's probably too late to buy Sherwin-Williams or DuPont.
I knew it would happen.
It only happened this one time.
Because they can. If you were in those traders' shoes you would be doing the same thing. These "manipulations" are very small scale for a few dollars per ounce and for seconds. Yes it adds up, but does not affect the price of gold or silver over months or years and for hundreds of dollars per ounce.
Every market since the first bizaar has had someone who influenced prices. PMs are not special.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
mahty
Whether long term manipulation occurs is something the little fish will never know the details about. How much is to the bull side, how to the bear side? The little fish will never know. These public stories, these fines and convictions may easily be part of a larger manipulation plan to convince the small fish about the lies spread by the big fish. Read any spy novel, or watch any spy movie or TV series, to get a feel for how deep deception can become. I tend to believe that people and firms smart enough to manipulate huge financial markets are smart enough to deceive those trying to report or blog on the subject.
If you ever talk to a really, really smart person, in any field, an observant person can tell they are just on a different level. For spies and manipulators those at the top level can run rings around 99.9999% of the folks out there. The levels of lies, their skill at the game, mean the real truth is never seen by the little fish. They don't use a broad brush or an ax as a tool, like this story seems to be about. The master manipulator massages the mood of the trading crowd. If they can convince the masses that they are manipulating to one side, they are almost certainly playing the crowd for marks, and may often be doing the reverse of what the crowd is thinking they are doing.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
1. August 2012 Gold (GC) Futures trades and quote spread over a 5 second period of time (10:00:21 to 10:00:26 Eastern).
The important London gold fix price was $1558.96 which is near the middle of the price on this chart. Approximately 1,100 contracts were traded during the sudden price drop .....and that saves you $3.9 MILL
This was only the equivalent of 3.4 tonnes of paper gold. What about the more significant dumps of the past 2 years where the volume was up to 100X larger than this?
Link to charts
Gold manipulation took place for a decade....or put another way....it took them 10 years to catch up to Barclays.
The FCA said Barclays had failed to “adequately manage conflicts of interest between itself and its customers as well as systems and controls failings, in relation to the gold fixing” between 2004 and 2013.
Some further details on Plunkett's manipulating the gold price.
The FCA said Mr Plunkett had manipulated the market by placing, withdrawing and re-placing a large sell order for between 40,000 oz and 60,000 oz of gold bars.
It's one thing to place a legit order and stick to it it. But using HFT's to place, withdraw, and re-place the same order? Show us where this guy did the same but with a "buy" order of this size.
More detailed info