<< <i>Every time there's a thread about security/ crime/ defense, etc. the thread invariably turns into a Letters to Penthouse section for folks with Rambo fantasies and fuel to feed the paranoid minds, and in the coin world paranoid minds are numerous and common.
I agree with SeattleSlammer...everybody has fantasies of becoming Superman in imagined scenarios but real life situations never turn out like they do in make believe world.
With proper training a firearm can be an effective defense aid and a deterrent but possessing one does not make the bearer invincible. There have been shop owners who openly carried a gun on themselves who still ended up robbery or assault victims. >>
Here's my two cents worth:
Some of us have been in real life situations as you call them and had to use a weapon. I can say from personal experience that having the ability to defend yourself makes a difference. I have also seen first hand the success of a coin dealer in one of the roughest neighborhoods protect themselves with an exposed firearm, security systems and trained dogs. They never were robbed or assaulted while all the businesses around them experienced violent crimes. I, for one, believe in the boy scouts motto - be prepared. Having grown up and worked in some of the worst neighborhoods, I feel your comment is a little naïve. In my real life experiences, by the time law enforcement arrives, it is already too late. I worked repo 25 years ago in the inner city and looking back on it wonder how I survived some of the violent situations.
I would also be interested in reading about some of these shop owners who openly carried a gun on themselves who still ended up robbery or assault victims. I assume the robbery took place while they were present and carrying a firearm. Please post some real life examples. I would then encourage you to do an internet search on "Armed Citizen" and read the stories of real life citizens who stopped crimes through the use of firearms. The evidence is overwhelming in my opinion that in the majority of cases, an armed citizen can make a difference.
Sometimes your best protection is God almighty. Prayer and faith is your best shield.
How do you save your life by taking a life? This sounds crazy but even someone that is trying to take your life. Remember, they want insignificant items such as gold, money or jewelry... have at it dude. Your life is more important.
True story, I had a Dog (rottweiler mixed with german sheppard) He passed away after 17+ years - the best dog I ever owned. Not even a week goes by and an intruder sneaks into the yard at aprox. 1 AM, starts lurking around. Wife and daughter (6) sound asleep.
I grap my 12gage 5 shot 1 in the chamber. I had the upper hand. The guy had no idea I was waiting for him. Without waking the wife I call 911.
Long story short, 3 or 4 units show up with no sirens on - they catch the guy inside my backyard!! The wife wakes up to cops screaming "get on ground"... etc. etc.!!! I'm holding a shot gun (she gave it to me when we first got married). I tell her to go to our daughters room - she's freaking out. I had to stay calm - my adrenalin was hard to subdue so I was pacing like a madmad back and forth peaking through every window over and over.
Here's where it gets interesting. The cops start debating whether they should book him or not. Then I hear one officer say, "just take him around the block and let him go" They were not aware I was listening. So the cops may not always protect you.
They said, and I quote "because you do not have a NO TRESPASSING SIGN, we cannot book him" "you will have to do a citizens arrest and go to court to testify against him"
Huh? How smart would that have been on my part? Let him go I said, just make it clear to him to stay away from my property.
I could've killed the guy - I had all the right reasons and I had a clear shot from where I was standing. But why? It would've haunted me for the rest of my life.
Don't get me wrong - had he opened, or even attempted to open our door to come inside, he would've been shot.
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET >>
He was a tough, wise, old bird. I followed his writings for years.
A couple of my favorite quotes of his:
"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory."
"The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail ... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation."
"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry."
"Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun."
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
Just a question - shouldn't you be sure of your target before you put your finger on the trigger if rule number two is true (pointing/loaded=possible destroy)? Would this not perhaps allow a faster, more precise shot? Not into guns, just asking.
<< <i>Every time there's a thread about security/ crime/ defense, etc. the thread invariably turns into a Letters to Penthouse section for folks with Rambo fantasies and fuel to feed the paranoid minds, and in the coin world paranoid minds are numerous and common.
I agree with SeattleSlammer...everybody has fantasies of becoming Superman in imagined scenarios but real life situations never turn out like they do in make believe world.
With proper training a firearm can be an effective defense aid and a deterrent but possessing one does not make the bearer invincible. There have been shop owners who openly carried a gun on themselves who still ended up robbery or assault victims. >>
And what is your solution? Call the cops?? LOL! Yeah, so they can come collect your dead body. Talk about make believe world. The rest of us live in the real world. What's the ratio of shop owners who openly carry and are victims vs those that prevent a crime? 1 to 100? 1 to 1000? So you take the one that gets killed and use that as the reason why guns are not useful? LOL! Like I said, talk about fantasyland. But then again, I see you're in the Bay Area, why am I not surprise.
Also i would recommend a simple 9mm berretta hand gun or a 12 gauge for self defense, shoot to maim not kill.
Going to be tough to merely maim at close range with a 12 gauge.One who pulls a gun on someone better be ready to accept the idea that they might be killed by someone with a gun.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Comments
<< <i>Every time there's a thread about security/ crime/ defense, etc. the thread invariably turns into a Letters to Penthouse section for folks with Rambo fantasies and fuel to feed the paranoid minds, and in the coin world paranoid minds are numerous and common.
I agree with SeattleSlammer...everybody has fantasies of becoming Superman in imagined scenarios but real life situations never turn out like they do in make believe world.
With proper training a firearm can be an effective defense aid and a deterrent but possessing one does not make the bearer invincible. There have been shop owners who openly carried a gun on themselves who still ended up robbery or assault victims. >>
Here's my two cents worth:
Some of us have been in real life situations as you call them and had to use a weapon. I can say from personal experience that having the ability to defend yourself makes a difference. I have also seen first hand the success of a coin dealer in one of the roughest neighborhoods protect themselves with an exposed firearm, security systems and trained dogs. They never were robbed or assaulted while all the businesses around them experienced violent crimes. I, for one, believe in the boy scouts motto - be prepared. Having grown up and worked in some of the worst neighborhoods, I feel your comment is a little naïve. In my real life experiences, by the time law enforcement arrives, it is already too late. I worked repo 25 years ago in the inner city and looking back on it wonder how I survived some of the violent situations.
I would also be interested in reading about some of these shop owners who openly carried a gun on themselves who still ended up robbery or assault victims. I assume the robbery took place while they were present and carrying a firearm. Please post some real life examples. I would then encourage you to do an internet search on "Armed Citizen" and read the stories of real life citizens who stopped crimes through the use of firearms. The evidence is overwhelming in my opinion that in the majority of cases, an armed citizen can make a difference.
How do you save your life by taking a life? This sounds crazy but even someone that is trying to take your life. Remember, they want insignificant items such as gold, money or jewelry... have at it dude. Your life is more important.
True story,
I had a Dog (rottweiler mixed with german sheppard) He passed away after 17+ years - the best dog I ever owned.
Not even a week goes by and an intruder sneaks into the yard at aprox. 1 AM, starts lurking around. Wife and daughter (6) sound asleep.
I grap my 12gage 5 shot 1 in the chamber. I had the upper hand. The guy had no idea I was waiting for him. Without waking the wife I call 911.
Long story short, 3 or 4 units show up with no sirens on - they catch the guy inside my backyard!! The wife wakes up to cops screaming "get on ground"... etc. etc.!!! I'm holding a shot gun (she gave it to me when we first got married). I tell her to go to our daughters room - she's freaking out. I had to stay calm - my adrenalin was hard to subdue so I was pacing like a madmad back and forth peaking through every window over and over.
Here's where it gets interesting.
The cops start debating whether they should book him or not. Then I hear one officer say, "just take him around the block and let him go" They were not aware I was listening.
So the cops may not always protect you.
They said, and I quote "because you do not have a NO TRESPASSING SIGN, we cannot book him" "you will have to do a citizens arrest and go to court to testify against him"
Huh? How smart would that have been on my part? Let him go I said, just make it clear to him to stay away from my property.
I could've killed the guy - I had all the right reasons and I had a clear shot from where I was standing. But why? It would've haunted me for the rest of my life.
Don't get me wrong - had he opened, or even attempted to open our door to come inside, he would've been shot.
Alex
<< <i>Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety
RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET >>
He was a tough, wise, old bird. I followed his writings for years.
A couple of my favorite quotes of his:
"The police cannot protect the citizen at this stage of our development, and they cannot even protect themselves in many cases. It is up to the private citizen to protect himself and his family, and this is not only acceptable, but mandatory."
"The will to survive is not as important as the will to prevail ... the answer to criminal aggression is retaliation."
"One cannot legislate the maniacs off the street ... these maniacs can only be shut down by an armed citizenry."
"Remember the first rule of gunfighting ... have a gun."
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Eric
Me - He was trying to take my gold and silver!
God - I sent him.
Me - Oh, sorry?
...............................
God - Why did you kill this man?
Me - He was going to hurt my loved ones!
God - 'tis why you woke up in the middle of the night, and without wearing your glasses, managed to locate and load your gun.
Alex
Consider reversing the title:
The people are safe, I hope the coins are as well.
Alex
<< <i>Every time there's a thread about security/ crime/ defense, etc. the thread invariably turns into a Letters to Penthouse section for folks with Rambo fantasies and fuel to feed the paranoid minds, and in the coin world paranoid minds are numerous and common.
I agree with SeattleSlammer...everybody has fantasies of becoming Superman in imagined scenarios but real life situations never turn out like they do in make believe world.
With proper training a firearm can be an effective defense aid and a deterrent but possessing one does not make the bearer invincible. There have been shop owners who openly carried a gun on themselves who still ended up robbery or assault victims. >>
And what is your solution? Call the cops?? LOL! Yeah, so they can come collect your dead body. Talk about make believe world. The rest of us live in the real world. What's the ratio of shop owners who openly carry and are victims vs those that prevent a crime? 1 to 100? 1 to 1000? So you take the one that gets killed and use that as the reason why guns are not useful? LOL! Like I said, talk about fantasyland. But then again, I see you're in the Bay Area, why am I not surprise.
<< <i>Just my little 2¢.
You shoot to STOP someone because YOU BELIEVED YOU WERE FACING IMMINENT SERIOUS BODILY INJURY OR DEATH WITH NO TIME OR MEANS OF RETREAT.
Do not say you shot to kill. Do not say you shot to maim.
Key words: STOP..... BELIEVED..... IMMINENT..... SERIOUS..... DEATH.
Not just bodily injury, but SERIOUS bodily injury, meaning the belief that if inflicted the injury would cause permanent injury or disfigurement.
And BTW, there's no such thing as shooting somebody a little bit. You shoot or you don't and aim for center mass if you do.
That is all.
edit:spelling >>
This is what they teach in my state. It's important to know what to say if you get into a situation and have to use your weapon.
Going to be tough to merely maim at close range with a 12 gauge.One who pulls a gun on someone better be ready to accept the idea that they might be killed by someone with a gun.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein