1948 Canada Dollar-authentic or not?

YQQ · May 12, 2014 5:49AM

Hello all, and especially experts and owners of a 1948 Canada Dollar.

Please check and evaluate your coins, and if possible post sharp images of both sides so we can compare the subject coin here to yours.
I have found this 48 and would love to find out if it is authentic or a extremely well done fake. I will give you my evaluation later.

Please approach the issue sort of neutral and check details and when you come to a conclusion, please let us know your reasons, why etc, one way or another.

I think it could be very interesting and , if nothing else, some interesting education and good fun.
Thank you all
H

Pokermandude · May 12, 2014 6:27AM

The digits in the date look no bueno.

There should be a triangle shaped tail/serif on the right hand side of the 4. The 8 looks mis-shaped, and the hole in of the inside of the 9 looks like it isn't completely rounded as it should be.

7Jaguars · May 12, 2014 7:45AM

The edge teeth look bad as well. Overall bad, the bust not too bad.

Thumbs down.

lordmarcovan · May 12, 2014 7:53AM

The digits in the date looked weird to ME, and I know next to nothing of the type and varieties of these.

Otherwise, I'd have to say I have no idea.

I take it these are tough coins, where there would be a danger of counterfeits?

Are the 4's supposed to be rounded on their top left portion like that?

coinkat · May 12, 2014 8:14AM

Look at the HB...

canadacolornut · May 12, 2014 8:26AM

CHECK THIS NOV 2012 POST OUT....

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=871663

cwt · May 12, 2014 10:17AM

link

coinkat · May 14, 2014 8:11AM

Not authentic

I intentionally wrote HB instead of HP- Take a careful look at the designer initials

YQQ · May 14, 2014 12:42PM

Ok fellows,
thank you all so far.
I am wondering WHY a few of you used a link to one of my last years posts. Just curious.
The question is still, has any of you compared with your coins?
the subject coin is for sale and will be sold in the next 2 days. I do not own it, nor am I associated with the owner. The owner is a US dealer.
BUT, I hope to know more details tomorrow...
as soon as I know it I will post it.
who knows, some of you might even want to buy it... who knows.
coinKat... sharp eyes..I had not noticed this at all.. but there are other, more predominant markers.
Counterfeit??? probably not...but???

coinkat · May 14, 2014 8:26PM

If it is real, it might be a discovery variety given the look of the initials-

Pokermandude · May 15, 2014 2:32AM

Good catch on the denticles. There definitely should not be areas where they are "angled" (12 oclock on the obv) and not pointing towards the centre. I'd wager this isn't an authentic piece.

YQQ · May 15, 2014 3:17AM

Ok fellows here is more.....
maybe that will help a bit.
But please do not let your first impression fool you....
maybe???

coinkat · May 15, 2014 7:18AM

Call me crazy- I think it is a counterfeit.

I suppose it would be far more professional of me to reserve judgment until seeing it in hand.

mrpotatoheadd · May 15, 2014 7:39AM

<< <i>Good catch on the denticles. There definitely should not be areas where they are "angled" (12 oclock on the obv) and not pointing towards the centre. >>

If an image gets resized enough (either larger or smaller), weird things can happen. Without seeing the coin in hand, there's no way to be sure the denticles actually look like that.

coinkat · May 15, 2014 8:33AM

It seems possible there is even a bigger problem here that has not yet been identified...

syl · May 15, 2014 10:19AM

One of the marks to ID one of the Chinese folks turning out fakes .. it looks like George had his nose bobbed. There are also differences in the neck truncation. The problem is, you can't ID or grade a coin accurately on a computer screen. I think that the original coin in this thread spent some time in a potato.

YQQ · May 15, 2014 4:49PM

Well everyone,
a lot of interesting and valid comments.
trust me, I did not start this knowing what I know now, I only suspected it. I also did my home work, before I posted this.
Syl.... your comments are very valid and usually hold a lot of weight. so does everyone elses... totally agreed. But even coin on hand could not change the facts.
Facts are all there, visible.
BUT none of you came up with even close to any marker applying to this coin.
None of you actually compared the coin to the 4 others, certified coins. perhaps just glanced over for the obvious.
It clearly shows what ones mind can actually suggest when it is set in one direction, even if it is only a hint... it can become reality...???..
did anyone actually seriously compare the images?
I am not trying to be a bad boy here, or discredit anyonel.
just trying to make everyone aware of possible alternatives...
please check the distances of the letters between each other and to the rim in GRATIA, VI and look at the O in George
So, what do you think now?
anyway, the coin will be at an auction on Saturday, this Saturday. I had a lot of communication with the owners ( auctioneer owns the coin) and they decided , after consulting with NGC's top experts to auction off this coin, offering their guarantee.
i now invite your further comments..i gave you hints... and I hope you either agree or not with the auctioneer.
I know, this forum is normally not seriously interested in this type of coin....., BUT it might become a lesson in approaching certain coins with a more open attitude and not be stuck with the old " oh, I know all about it"
I promise, the answers will be up tomorrow in plenty of time to bid on it....
here is a close up of the coin and another next to it. Maybe it will help.
promise , tomorrow you get all the answers and a link to bid on it... NO, it is NOT my coin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I decided not to bid.

syl · May 15, 2014 6:16PM

Although I don't collect dollars or TPG things, I think that the coin on the left in the last photo is a fake. A sure sign of most George counterfeits is the indent at the base of the bridge of the nose is missing or partially void.... like that one is. The computer-controlled etching that actually tries to copy a REAL coin to make fake laser-design dies usually misses that spot, as well as the tip of the nose. I actually think that the coin with the bobbed nose in the TPG certified coin is a fake as well. I would have to see it in person to make a final determination, but I could care less about 1948 dollars ... they are overpriced, overhyped, and over advertised as to scarcity, just like 1858 large cents.

coinkat · May 16, 2014 9:09AM

So is this in an NGC holder?

YQQ · May 16, 2014 12:52PM

NO, not NGC
the subject coin is graded by ANACS as a MS 62
the other sungle coin next to it is graded by PCGS as a SP 67.
compare these two and you probably have to agree that the subject coin is SP coin
it had me going to no end.
The coin is at the Steven Album Auction on Saturday morning.: http://www.icollector.com/CANADA-George-VI-1936-1952-AR-dollar-1948_i19475454
It is graded MS62 ANACS ( yeah, yeah.. I know, maybe MS60 ICCS)
BUT, the coin is a SP. and not MS see this example at heritage:

At first I though it was a fake and asked Album to confirm. I let them know my doubts about it and sent them my images.
They came back and and suggested that even the 2 top NGC graders said that there was nothing wrong with it. But nobody suggested that it might be an SP.
so it bugged me and I continued my search..... it lead me to check Heritage archive photos and....... Bingo = SP.
Anyway, Steven Album, at this time , do not know about the SP and the coin is not removed from the auction.
The very obvious marker, once you know, is the distance of the letters to each other, and letters to the rim.

if you just compare the MS 48s pictures with the SP up for auction, and you do not know how to ID the markers of an SP, it is a logical thought to say it is a fake.
BUT how many collectors or dealers have the luxury of being able to compare ?
I know, as a SP it is a rare coin.
However, one might have to weigh HOW ICCS will grade it in SP. if a 62.. a great deal, but if only a 60??? well I am not sure.
SP coins are really not for me, unless I can get it for a realistic price and as an MS coin
check it out...
The main and sure identifier markers are the distance in GRATIA from one letter to another, denticles and distance from legends to the rim.
Now, do most of you still think it is a fake?
NO, NO.. !!!!!!!!!! I have absolutely NO personal interest of any in the sale of thei item. I was told that STA owns the coin.
h

syl · May 16, 2014 6:45PM

I just wish that Mike Marshal or Mike Diamond would have entered into this thread, but I know that Trenton Mike is gone maybe. Regardless, I wouldn't buy any of them, so my comments are really mute.

coinkat · May 16, 2014 8:28PM

If it is one of the old small white ANACS holders, that might partially explain the color. Further, it would seem that some of these questions would have been considered by ANACs...

I really don't know what to think

YQQ · May 17, 2014 2:04AM

Interesting that you actually mention MM.
FACT !!!! is, I did run it by Mike!!
His answer, copied from the email,

H

<< <i>" Good eye as usual. Please compare the toned coin to an image of a SP. MM" >>

The only reason I started this thread is simply to bring attention to

1 possible identification of fakes
2 after I knew, to identify a SP

so, Syl, what can I say/ Nobody can make u like 1948 dollars.
However, most Canadian Collectors ( and US) , and overseas, are still hoping to acquire one.
But, how often can u get on in SP?

coinkat · May 19, 2014 9:57AM

Closed at $1500 according to the prices realized- I was not a bidder

Coin Finder · January 22, 2020 7:24PM

Cool thread!

syl · January 23, 2020 5:19AM

Wow! History churning up old 1948 investigations due to the recent post about another 1948. Thanks Helmut.

YQQ · January 23, 2020 10:13AM

Thank you Syl,,,
that old post was ooodles of years ago and it was fun
I believe everyone who was involved learned something (and other members)
I recently came across (hopefully) a very new error?? or variety of one of the known 47s...
but will post details as a new post after my broken wrist has healed. (slipped on black ice)
typing and using a mouse with the left hand if you are right handed ,with a cast is a bummer...

1948 Canada Dollar-authentic or not?

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