Can anyone provide information on the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars??

keets

As a matter of routine I do an eBay search of new listings for So-Called Dollars every day and found this listing today which I found intriguing. The medal itself is one that's on my watch list for a suitable example but what struck me is that it is attributed on the insert by NGC as the Plate Coin from the first edition of book. That means it's from an old time collection dating to the early 1960's and evidently owned by a Mr. Ostheimer. I have seen this pedigree many times associated with SC$'s but never paid it much heed.........................until now. I had supposed that the collector had somehow managed to get his name on the insert of a large NGC submission but now realize that he was probably a significant collector who had some input into the research of Mssrs. Hibler-Kappen.

Can anyone supply me/us with links, references or just personal knowledge about Mr. Ostheimer and the collection he assembled?? Thanks in advance.

Al H.

JohnHarper

The Ostheimer collection of So-Called dollars was offered through fixed-price sales conducted by Jeff Shevlin around 2011. I recall he had some of these at his table at the Boston ANA.

The Ostheimer label was not put on when Ostheimer owned the coins but rather when they were submitted later for certification.

BigMoose

I believe this is the same Alfred J. Ostheimer III who formed a fantastic collection of Early Dollars including an 1870-S Dollar. His collection was auctioned by Lester Merkin in the late 1960s, if I recall correctly. He was also a long time collector of SCDs.

USAROK

Here are links to 2 E-Sylum articles regarding the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars:

The E-Sylum: Volume 13, Number 31, August 1, 2010, Article 18, OSTHEIMER COLLECTION RARITIES OFFERED

The E-Sylum: Volume 13, Number 51, December 19, 2010, Article 17, OSTHEIMER COLLECTION SO-CALLED DOLLARS OFFERED IN JANUARY 2011

291fifth

This is an excellent example of the old time, high quality collections of So-Called Dollars that came to market in the early 2000's. Collections of this type were the reason why so many high grade and/or rare pieces appeared during this period.

I wonder how many more collections that were assembled in the 1950's or 60's have yet to appear? My guess is "not many". Time has taken its toll on collectors of the era.

Ed62

I believe the Ostheimer collection of silver dollars (sold in the '60's) included an 1805.

Tibor

How nice that a quest for info/knowledge has turned up so
many responses. Thank you John Harper and USAROK!!

keets

thanks for the links, they are quite informative and enlightening.

yosclimber

Yes, Alfred J. Ostheimer.
He was also a mountaineer, and he lived most of his adult life in Hawaii.
http://www.peakfinder.com/people.asp?PersonsName=Ostheimer%2C+Alfred+J.

Ed62

1805: One of the curious' numismatic situations in recent decades involved Alfred J. Ostheimer, 3rd, well-known collector of silver dollars, who contributed an article-to The Numismatist, June 1961, which began with these words:

"The most important chapter in the long and involved history of the 1804 dollars has been written with the announcement that one coin dated 1804 and another dated 1805 have been fully authenticated by M.H. Bolender of San Marino, Cal., the recognized authority on early silver dollars. After careful study, Bolender has pronounced these to be authentic coins struck at the United States Mint by the same manufacturing processes used for the silver dollars coined from 1794 through 1803.

"These two coins were known to Spink & Son, Ltd: Of London, before they reached the late B.G. Johnson of St. Louis early in 1939. In November 1939 they were purchased by the late Farran Zerbe for his private collection. Zerbe was then the curator of the Chase Manhattan Bank's Museum of Moneys of the World. In-March 1941 he sold these two coins to Louis S. Werner of New York."

Ostheimer went on to say that Werner was Well known for his 'expertise in detecting counterfeits, and had made many important contributions to numismatics. In 1960, Werner submitted the 1805 and 1805 dollars to Academy Testing Laboratories, Inc., of New York, and Lucious Pitkin, Inc., of the same city; both of these firms concluded that the pieces were genuine. After due discussion, Mr. and Mrs. AJ. Ostheimer, 3rd bought the pair from Werner, and wrote the aforementioned article for The Numismatist.

A couple of things were missing from this nice story: First, Werner had purchased them as fakes. Second, Zerbe had written an article about these specific phony "1804" and "1805" dollars for The Numismatist, March 1944.

While Mr. Bolender was a very nice old man, and while he had kept records of the appearances of early dollars over a long period of time, and had published a book on the subject in 1950, he 'was not an expert numismatist from a technical viewpoint. Apparently, he had only a rudimentary knowledge of coining procedures, and, for example, thought that clash marks on dies were caused by "suction." The two testing laboratories in question may have been excellent in some other field, but not in numismatics. In any event, at the 1961 American Numismatic Association convention in Atlanta, Eric P. Newman gave a talk on the Ostheimer "1804" and "1805" dollars, and demonstrated that the first was an alteration of 1802 B-4 and the second an alteration of 1803 B-6. Thus, the highly-trumpeted new discoveries were discredited, and soon faded from view. (For details see: "Contemporary 1804, 1805 Silver Dollars Authenticated," by Alfred]. Ostheimer, 3rd, The Numismatist, June 1961; and "Diagnosing the Zerbe 1804 and 1805 Dollars," by Eric P. Newman, The Numismatist, October 1961.)

Treashunt

Thanks for the reply, Ed.

A lot of info there

keets

so, judging only from that post by Ed62(thank you, Ed) I think it is safe to say that there were several faces with egg upon them and several individuals eager for these two coins to fall out of the limelight. I'm curious to know exactly who in that post duped who, when exactly they were ID'd as counterfeits and any other specifics. very interesting.

but, back to the subject of the OP, can anyone lead me to web-site, magazine article or catalogue which contains some good biographical information on Mr. Ostheimer?? thanks in advance.

WDP

Someone told me about this thread asking about the Ostheimer Collection of So-Called Dollars while attending the 2014 Early American Coppers (EAC) Convention in Colorado Springs last week. I can shed some light on the Ostheimer's and their collections.

Jacque and Alfred Ostheimer III actively collected So-Called Dollars (SCDs) in the late 1950s and early 1960s. They also had an extensive collection of U.S. silver dollars, including the early U.S. silver dollars 1794-1803 by die marriage, Seated Dollars, Patterns, Morgan and Peace Dollars, and Lesher Dollars. Approximately half of their early silver dollar collection was stolen in June 1968. The other half of the collection was consigned to the September 18, 1968 Lester Merkin auction sale, along with their Liberty Seated, Morgan and Peace Dollars, Lesher Dollars and misc. lots. They recovered all but two of the stolen coins later in 1968, having paid a ransom to recover the collection. Some details of the theft and recovery were reported in Coin World. The balance of their early dollar collection was sold privately to the Goldberg's, and later were offered in a series of public auction sales 1973-76. The Ostheimer's also had a number of other collections.

About 10 years ago (in 2004) I purchased all of the Ostheimer's early dollar notes and correspondence from Jacque Ostheimer. At this time she mentioned their So-Called Dollar collection, and that she still had the collection intact. She eventually compiled and sent me a list of their SCD collection. The collection had over 700 different H&K numbers, maybe the second largest collection of SCDs ever, the Swicer Collection being the largest collection that I am aware of, with over 900 H&K numbers. There were over five dozen "plate coins" from the Ostheimer Collection in the first edition of the H&K reference (1963), and if I recall correctly, 89 plate coins in the second edition which was published in 2008. Many of the plated specimens were and are quite rare, as were other pieces from the collection. There were also dozens of SCDs that were unlisted in the H&K book.

I first viewed the Ostheimer SCD collection in 2005. What an experience this was. There were 10 double row boxes of 2X2 paper envelopes. Most of the SCDs were wrapped in "crisp" tissue paper, having been unopened since the early 1960s! I had advised Mrs. Ostheimer to consign the collection for sale at public auction, and helped her line up three qualified auction companies to do so. She later chose to sell the collection privately, and did so in 2005.

Of particular interest to me, the collection had eight Lesher Dollars, two of which were plated in the first edition of the H&K Book, and Farran Zerbe's personal set of Bryan Dollars which they had acquired from dealer Louis Werner.

Ernie Latter, a Florida dealer, negotiated to have the Ostheimer name included on the holders and he submitted the Ostheimer SCDs for grading.

So-Called Dollar Specialists Jeff Shevlin held four sealed bid sales, offering 50 of the rarer Ostheimer SCDs at FUN and the summer ANA Convention over a two-year period. Shevlin offered others via his fixed price lists. And some of the collection was sold on e-bay.

The Ostheimer's are listed as and were contributors to the first edition of the H&K book.

coindeuce

There is another substantial hoard of So-Called Dollars in limbo currently from the estate of a long time collector from Western New York, who passed away after a lengthy illness in or around 2010. I have sought out the executor of the estate to confirm the status of the collection, but have not had any success in that regard. There were at least 4 double row boxes (4" X 14") of gems that I had reviewed at a show within the last 10 years, which the owner was reluctant to sell. I still have some gem U.S. Mint medals from him that he seemed less enthusiastic about keeping.

WDP

You are correct. Jacque and Alfred Ostheimer III collected the early U.S. silver dollars 1794 to 1803 by die marriage. They purchased from dealer M. H. Bolender the K. P. Austin and W. G. Baldenhofer die variety collections around 1959-1961. I have the original Bolender invoices and correspondence from these two private treaty sales. Part of this early dollar collection was sold in the September 18, 1968 Merkin Sale; the balance was sold privately to the Goldberg's in 1969.

The extremely rare 1870-S Seated Dollar the Ostheimer's owned was purchased from Bolender and was from Bolender's personal collection. This specimen was offered but did not sell in the 1968 Merkin sale; it was later sold privately to the Goldberg's. I have the original invoice from this private treaty sale, acquired from Jacque Ostheimer a decade ago. I also have the Ostheimer's copy of the September 1968 Merkin sale, along with their auction settlement from Lester Merkin.

Jacque Ostheimer went to England in 1964 and purchased one of the two Mint State "Lord St. Oswald" 1794 Dollars in Christie, Manson & Woods the Major the Lord St. Oswald Sale. I believe it is graded PCGS MS-66 today. It was later owned by Jimmy Hayes.

The Ostheimer's collected So-Called Dollars at the same time they were collecting the early U.S. and other silver dollars.




This is written in reply to:

Thursday May 01, 2014 10:31 AM


I believe this is the same Alfred J. Ostheimer III who formed a fantastic collection of Early Dollars including an 1870-S Dollar. His collection was auctioned by Lester Merkin in the late 1960s, if I recall correctly. He was also a long time collector of SCDs.

-------------------------
TomT-1794

WDP

Thursday May 01, 2014 3:07 PM

I believe the Ostheimer collection of silver dollars (sold in the '60's) included an 1805.


In reply:

The Ostheimer's purchased a pair of silver dollars dated 1804 and 1805 from dealer Louis S. Werner. These were correctly proven to both be genuine early U.S. silver dollars, but with altered dates (to 1804 and 1805). Eric P. Newman identified these as both having been altered. I was able to first view and study these two specimens in the 1990s. I have the Ostheimer files with the tests, invoices, photos, articles, etc. on these two altered dollars.

The Ostheimer collection included the altered 1804 and 1805 silver dollars, but these two coins were sold privately. They were both offered in the Goldberg's The Pre-Long Beach Auction of September 23 & 24, 2002, Lots 540 and 541. These lots were cataloged in detail by James Matthews, with some information provided by me. For those interested, the catalog descriptions for these two lots can be found online at http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=16&lot=540 and http://images.goldbergauctions.com/php/lot_auc.php?site=1&sale=16&lot=541

These two coins sold in this sale.

WDP

PCGS has made it easier to include photos. Here is the obverse of the 1805 Dollar Werner sold to the Ostheimers.

W. David Perkins
http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/

yosclimber

Note:
Alfred J. Ostheimer III (1908-1983) was the coin collector above. From the "Mountain People" bio linked previously:
"He went on to a successful career in the insurance business and, as well, became an expert in malacology, the study of shells, and Indian, Mexican, and Hawaiian artifacts and art objects. He visited the Rockies again in 1977, fifty years after his most memorable year of climbing."
He also helped create the Persis collection of Hawaiian stamps:
https://postalmuseum.si.edu/research/articles-from-enroute/persis-collection.html

His father:
Alfred J. Ostheimer II (1875-1936) was a doctor who served in World War I.

His grandfather:
Alfred James Ostheimer (1845-1903) was an importer, and later a diplomat:
"Member of Ostheimer Brothers, exporters and importers. Listed as liquor importer in family business 1870. Listed arrival with wife on return trip from Le Havre on 'La Touraine' 1893 and alone on the same ship 1897. Appointed Consul for Austro Hungarian Empire 1894 and for Japan 1897."
https://geni.com/people/Alfred-Ostheimer/6000000022348533621

WDP

Yosclimber, thank you so much for this information on the Ostheimer family above. I have met Mrs. Alfred J. Ostheimer III, and purchased much correspondence, notes, and old invoices from her over a decade ago. This mostly pertained to the Ostheimer Collection of early U.S. silver dollars 1794-1803 and their large So-Called Dollar Collection. This included correspondence with "Hal" Hibler prior to the publication of his and Charles Kappen's book, So Called Dollars (published in 1963).

I did not have this Ostheimer family tree information and much appreciate it.

W. David Perkins
http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/

yosclimber

I never met him, but he contributed an article to a mountaineering journal I wrote articles for in 1979.
harvardmountaineering.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/1979.pdf
His article was about his return to the Canadian Rockies in 1977, not to climb but to look at glacial recession.
Mrs. Ostheimer, their daughter Margaret, and a crew of other folks joined in the adventure.

So I recognized his name when I was reading about silver dollars in Breen's Encyclopedia some years ago and made the connection.

Zoins

Old Thread Update

@yosclimber said:
Note:
Alfred J. Ostheimer III (1908-1983) was the coin collector above. From the "Mountain People" bio linked previously:
"He went on to a successful career in the insurance business and, as well, became an expert in malacology, the study of shells, and Indian, Mexican, and Hawaiian artifacts and art objects. He visited the Rockies again in 1977, fifty years after his most memorable year of climbing."
He also helped create the Persis collection of Hawaiian stamps:
https://postalmuseum.si.edu/research/articles-from-enroute/persis-collection.html

His father:
Alfred J. Ostheimer II (1875-1936) was a doctor who served in World War I.

His grandfather:
Alfred James Ostheimer (1845-1903) was an importer, and later a diplomat:
"Member of Ostheimer Brothers, exporters and importers. Listed as liquor importer in family business 1870. Listed arrival with wife on return trip from Le Havre on 'La Touraine' 1893 and alone on the same ship 1897. Appointed Consul for Austro Hungarian Empire 1894 and for Japan 1897."
https://geni.com/people/Alfred-Ostheimer/6000000022348533621

Good info. Alfred James Ostheimer, III also was known as "Junior 3rd", a nickname, per the following:

https://www.geni.com/people/Alfred-Ostheimer/6000000022449837428

Zoins

Looking for Ostheimer So-Called Dollars turned up this one which is previously pedigreed to Harold E. Hibler. Pretty nice pedigree for a So-Called Dollar!

• https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/wcm/coinview.aspx?sc=312105

THOMAS655

ATTACHED ARE A FEW OF MY PRIZED POSSESSION OSTHEIMER COLLECTION SO-CALLED DOLLARS THAT I HAVE COLLECTED THROUGH THE YEARS, SOME OF WHICH ARE PLATE EXAMPLES AS WELL.

THOMAS655

![](https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/vv/25iih7yl378k.jpg ""

ATTACHED ARE A FEW MORE OSTHEIMER COLLECTION EXAMPLES FROM MY COLLECTION.

THOMAS655

AND ONE OTHER THAT I DID NOT PREVIOUSLY INCLUDE.