"Roller Lines" Lesson?

shu4040

I should know this by now, but can someone give me a 101 lesson on roller lines? What do they look like? What are bad roller lines on resealed packs? do resealed packs not have visible roller lines?

Thanks

LarkinCollector

Tilt the pack at the correct angle in bright light. You'll see a line(s) in the wax across the pack seals. On a legit or well faked pack, the line will be continuous across the flaps. If there's no line or misaligned lines, probable reseal and guaranteed reseal, respectively.

grote15

The roller lines are created when the hot wax on the back of the wrapper travels across the conveyor belt on its way to being sealed in the factory. It is very difficult to recreate this original imprint once you open the pack. As Larkin said, the seal should line up like a puzzle piece on each side of the flap. Another good thing to look for is the corner folds on the pack~an authentic pack should feature tight little triangles on the corner folds. These are also very difficult to recreate once the pack is opened. Lastly, it helps to know what size gum Topps used for that particular year, as resealers often have difficulty obtaining the wider slabs of gum Topps used in the 70s and substiture it for the skinnier sticks Topps used in the late 80s. This is the main reason why selling vintage gum is so frowned upon within the hobby.

LarkinCollector

Just remember, the correct size gum does not guarantee authenticity, the incorrect size can only guarantee fabrication. Also Topps has 'reissued' the larger size gum in at least one modern product, so availability is not an issue.

grote15

<< <i>Just remember, the correct size gum does not guarantee authenticity, the incorrect size can only guarantee fabrication. Also Topps has 'reissued' the larger size gum in at least one modern product, so availability is not an issue. >>



There is a definite difference between the vintage gum Topps used in the 1970s (color, feel, etc.) than any modern issue gum.

The gum size is a key thing to look for, though, because I have seen many resealed packs with the wrong sized gum. Of course, there are more things to look at when evaluating a pack, including checking to see if there are any unusual wrinkles in the wrapper and the wax gloss on the wrapper itself, in addition to the other items I detailed above.

gemint

Also, the roller lines should have a very confined space across the back. The edges of the roller lines should be distinct. If someone uses an iron or other means to remelt the wax, those edges of the roller area will become less well defined.

elsnorto

Another thing to look for while you are checking the corner folds is cracking or flaking of the wax on the paper that makes up the corners.

Take an old, cheap pack... and study it before opening it (even carefully), trying to refold everything, and you will get an idea of what to look for.

Snorto~

belz

Could wax packs that have slight peak through openings on the back still be legit? I bought a box where all the roller lines and corners are perfectly in tact but you can see a small porition of the back card because of how the wrapper is folded (not that the flap of the wrapper is open but how it's folded).

MantleFan23

I'm by far means no expert, but seeing some of the back card does not, in itself, mean its searched. I just ripped through an 86 topps wax box bought from BBCE and 5 of 6 of the packs in the box, I could see a portion of the back card.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Could wax packs that have slight peak through openings on the back still be legit? I bought a box where all the roller lines and corners are perfectly in tact but you can see a small porition of the back card because of how the wrapper is folded (not that the flap of the wrapper is open but how it's folded). >>


Yes, factory miswraps are not uncommon, though I don't recall ever seeing them in boxes before. If I remember correctly, Topps offloaded these 'rejects' in bulk at the end of the season, kinda like X-out boxes.

shu4040

thanks guys, all very helpful, and a great lesson.

i am going to open a couple of cheaper mid late 80s packs to teach myself more on the lines themselves. Most of my expensive packs are either sealed in BBCE wrapping or PSA graded, so tough to see, but i know i have some 75s and 77s laying around that i'll look at carefully as well.

Thanks!

54topps

Any chance some of the pack experts can post pics of good roller lines and possibly bad roller lines? Any other pics of a good wrap with sharp corners versus a bad rewrap would be greatly appreciated.

grote15

<< <i>Could wax packs that have slight peak through openings on the back still be legit? I bought a box where all the roller lines and corners are perfectly in tact but you can see a small porition of the back card because of how the wrapper is folded (not that the flap of the wrapper is open but how it's folded). >>



Yes, in fact, if you encounter a box in which all packs are wrapped as such, it is a good sign the box is original as all packs in an original (non put-together) box should appear uniform to that extent.

Packs with a small section of catd showing on back are not miswraps and are not uncommon. Miswraps are far more egregious than that.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Any chance some of the pack experts can post pics of good roller lines and possibly bad roller lines? Any other pics of a good wrap with sharp corners versus a bad rewrap would be greatly appreciated. >>


Try this thread: Link

54topps

<< <i>

<< <i>Any chance some of the pack experts can post pics of good roller lines and possibly bad roller lines? Any other pics of a good wrap with sharp corners versus a bad rewrap would be greatly appreciated. >>


Try this thread: Link >>



Perfect thanks!

LarkinCollector

<< <i>Perfect thanks! >>


No problem. Also an interesting article on resealing featuring an interview with BBCE's Steve Hart: Link

MisterBungle

You know, getting a good shot of the roller imprint is not
as easy as it would seem.

I just tried scanning some raw wax and cello packs.
The wax was really hard to see in the scans, and
the cellos weren't much better.

I then tried to use a camera, because it's much
easier to see the roller marks at an angle.

This is the best I could come up with without
investing a lot of time with them. The left
edge of the roller mark came through like a
champ, but the right side...not so much.

Funny thing is, they're really easy to see in-hand.

The roller mark is about one and a half inches
wide.



~

belz

<< <i>

<< <i>Could wax packs that have slight peak through openings on the back still be legit? I bought a box where all the roller lines and corners are perfectly in tact but you can see a small porition of the back card because of how the wrapper is folded (not that the flap of the wrapper is open but how it's folded). >>



Yes, in fact, if you encounter a box in which all packs are wrapped as such, it is a good sign the box is original as all packs in an original (non put-together) box should appear uniform to that extent.

Packs with a small section of catd showing on back are not miswraps and are not uncommon. Miswraps are far more egregious than that. >>



Cool!!!

PaulMaul

I'd say packs like the one below with card showing are almost always legit. Pack fakers usually make them look too perfect if anything.

grote15

Here's an example of what to NOT look for on vintage wax--notice how sloppy and loose the corner folds are on these packs--a result of the packs having been opened and resealed. same seller is also selling homemade early 1970s cellos. Topps never produced 12-card cellos during the early 1970s. They are all fake.

Resealed 77 Wax Packs

ReggieCleveland

<< <i>Here's an example of what to NOT look for on vintage wax--notice how sloppy and loose the corner folds are on these packs--a result of the packs having been opened and resealed. same seller is also selling homemade early 1970s cellos. Topps never produced 12-card cellos during the early 1970s. They are all fake.

Resealed 77 Wax Packs >>



Great example. To add a comment, there are abnormalies sometimes in corner folds but one way to tell if it's from the factory or not is by the gaps in the corner portions. Resealers might be able to get most of the back to look right but a lot of times what happens is the corner sections end up bunching up on them and the folded portion can't get a clean, pressed, flat surface. They'll be elevated because they're essentially trying to press down on doubled up portions of the wrapper and they pop out.

MikeyP

Great thread. Thank you all so much for the valuable information. Regarding the size of the gum, I just received a pack of 1978 Topps Baseball cards that contained shattered gum. I am assuming that it was resealed.