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Oldest pedigree, and a styca newp

NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'm always fascinated by coins with history. We collectors take pride in detailing where we obtained things, what we paid, what was the provenance, etc. Of course when collectors die, heirs just sell the coins and the history is lost, but occasionally the history is not lost. And there are certainly plenty of coins with history that can be followed back >100 years, no small task I should add.

The oldest pedigrees I have in my collection are Northumbrian stycas that were found in great number at Bolton Percy in 1846-1847. Many of these coins went to museums, but many went to private collectors as well, and it is possible to trace some of these coins to modern times.

For example, I recently acquired a styca of Eanred, by the moneyer Badigils. Badigils is a rare moneyer, and only a handful of his coins have ever been found. It's therefore somewhat easier to track. My coin is ex-York Coins, ex-CNG, ex-Peter Moffat, ?ex-Stanley Gibbons, ex-Charles Winn, ex-William Fennell, ex-Bolton Percy hoard. Prior to that it was buried in a jar from approximately 866 (when the Vikings took over York) to 1846. I can't account for its whereabouts from when it was struck ~830 to when it was buried ~866 but I have a fairly complete history of a coin that is almost 1200 years old.

image
Picture courtesy of York Coins.
The coin reads ++AERDERN (which is a retrograde EA++NRED R, a somewhat blundered 'Eanred Rex') on the obverse and +BADIGILS on the reverse (the moneyer). Perhaps King Eanred was displeased with the way his name appeared on Badigils' coins and fired the guy, as very few coins of his have survived.


What's your oldest pedigree? What's the oldest known pedigree?

I know some coins can be traced to collections from the 1700s, especially rare Greek and British coins.

Comments

  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
    Very nice, afraid I don't have anything with a long pedigree.
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have several sceattas that pre-date the rise of Northumbria, dating from the 7th Century. (Northumbria minted AE coins during their middle and declining periods, but struck AG coins in their early period.) I'm sure that at least some of them have traceable provenance, but I don't have time to look them up.

    The earliest I have whose information is easy for me to tell is my Aelfred penny, S-1057A, from the Croydon hoard. Likely struck early in his reign (871-899), the coin was found in 1862. Here is a snippet from wikipedia on the hoard:

    Various hoards of treasure were buried in England at this time, some of which may have been deposited by Anglo-Saxons attempting to hide their wealth from Viking raiders, and some of which may have instead been buried by the Viking raiders themselves as a way of protecting their looted treasure.

    One such of these hoards was discovered in Croydon, Surrey in 1862. Containing 250 coins, three silver ingots and part of a fourth as well as four pieces of hack silver in a linen bag, it was believed by archaeologists that this was the loot collected by a member of the Viking army. By dating the artefacts, archaeologists came to believe that it was likely that this hoard had been buried in 872, when the army wintered in London. The coins themselves came from a wide range of different kingdoms, with Wessex, Mercian and East Anglian examples being found alongside foreign imports from Carolingian dynasty Francia and the Arab world. Not all such Viking hoards in England contained coins however, for example at Bowes Moor, Durham, 19 silver ingots were discovered, whilst at Orton Scar, Cumbria, a silver neck ring and penannular brooch were uncovered.

    The historian Peter Hunter Blair believed that it was the success of the Viking raids and the "complete unpreparedness of Britain to meet such attacks" which was the major factor in the subsequent Norse invasions and colonisations of large parts of the British Isles.


    From the seller:

    LONDON, Lunettes coinage (871-c.877). +DMON/BIARNRE/ETA . Lyons and MacKay (BNJ 2008) recorded 33 examples of this type with 4 noted for Biarnred out of 197 surviving Alfred lunettes pennies.
    Ex:- Croydon Hoard, 1862, listed by Blunt and Dolly 1959; Marsham Townsend, Sotheby November 19th 1888; Carlyon Britton, Sotheby November 17th 1913; SNC March 1914; SNC March 1916; SNC July 1921; H.A.Parsons Glens 11-13 May 1954; Morrison aquired 1984.


    So, this penny is only "unknown" for about one year.

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • this is awesome
    =Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award 4/28/2014=
  • EVillageProwlerEVillageProwler Posts: 5,859 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sorry, but I forgot to write: nice pickup. I saw that York had listed some new stycas, and a couple pieces interested me but money is very tight for me currently. I'm glad someone here got one of them.

    image

    EVP

    How does one get a hater to stop hating?

    I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com

  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awesome coin and story! I love old pedigrees and unfortunately don't know what old collections mine were from but the history of these two aurei is well known, as they were buried in Pompeii under the ash of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 AD until being excavated in 1895 to eventually find their way to an impressive collection (the Biaggi collection of Roman gold) and now sit in a rather boring safety deposit box:

    Vespasian:
    image

    Nero:

    image

    (More detail here: Pompeii and Roman gold )
    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry, but I forgot to write: nice pickup. I saw that York had listed some new stycas, and a couple pieces interested me but money is very tight for me currently. I'm glad someone here got one of them.

    image

    EVP >>



    He listed a few new ones recently. Some are Eanred stycas from fairly rare moneyers, such as Daegberct and Wilheah. I grabbed the Eanred/Badigils because I've never seen another for sale. Elizabeth Pirie lists one in the York Museum and a second that was sold at auction in 1981 (I believe it is this coin). Tony Abramson traces a mere 10 Badigils coins out of 3800+ stycas in his "Stycas Simplified" reference. Five are impounded in museums, and I think 2-4 of the 10 are duplicates.
  • NapNap Posts: 1,702 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Awesome coin and story! I love old pedigrees and unfortunately don't know what old collections mine were from but the history of these two aurei is well known, as they were buried in Pompeii under the ash of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 AD until being excavated in 1895 to eventually find their way to an impressive collection (the Biaggi collection of Roman gold) and now sit in a rather boring safety deposit box:


    (More detail here: Pompeii and Roman gold ) >>



    Never get tired of looking at those aurei (and pretty much every coin in your collection!!) Very cool to have such tangible history of a profound event still taught to school children to this day, nearly 2000 years later.
  • SwampboySwampboy Posts: 12,873 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Awesome styca and aurii.
    Simply amazing, beautiful pieces of history.

    This Edward I (1272-1307) penny came from the LLanddona Hoard by way of forum members FilthyBroke and lordmarcovan.
    Here's the old BST thread that led me to it.

    What can I say about LM?
    Outstanding fellow.

    image

    From the York Coins site original listing.

    The Llanddona Hoard was discovered with the aid of metal detectors on Llanddona Beach, Red Wharf Bay between September 1999 and August 2006. Almost 1000 silver coins were recovered, English pennies of Edward I-II from various mints, Irish pennies of Edward I, Scottish Sterlings of Alexander III and John Baliol and various Continental Esterlins from the Low Countries. The coins were reported to the National Museum of Wales in Cardiff and declared Treasure under the Treasure Act of 1996. The Isle of Anglesey Museum (Oriel Ynys Môn) acquired several hundred coins from the hoard, the balance of 649 coins being returned to the finders who released the hoard onto the market. The coins offered for sale here represent all of the coins available for purchase.




    Another piece with provenance I enjoy owning is this Roman Republican Denarius.

    It came in an envelope from the Stack's 'Massachusetts Historical Society Part 1 / March 5, 6, 1971'.
    In this auction the ancient coins from the John Q. Adams Collection were deaccessioned from the Massachussets Historical Society.

    So I believe this piece to be from J.Q.A.'s own collection.

    I found this coin and the great image on the Civitas Galleries website.

    image
    Q. Antonius Balbus 83-82 B.C. Serrate Denarius--#AC54502
    AR Serrate Denarius 20mm. 4.06g. Rome Mint
    Laureate head of Jupiter r., S.C behind; R below chin.
    Victory in quadriga r., holding palm-branch and wreath;
    In ex.: Q.ANTO.BALB / PR
    Crawford 364/1b; RSC Antonia 1a








  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    This thread has all of the coins I currently am fascinated with plus history of individual pieces to boot: brilliant!
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really fascinating, and that's some terrific toning.

    Explore collections of lordmarcovan on CollecOnline, management, safe-keeping, sharing and valuation solution for art piece and collectibles.
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