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Please tell me what my eyes are missing?

BIGBEN7BIGBEN7 Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I am looking at this 1963 Pete Rose PSA 9 in Robert Edwards auctions and comparing this card to my 1963 Willie Stargell PSA 9 o/c. I think my o/c has better eye appeal then the straight 9 Rose. I am wrong? How does the Rose not get an o/c qualifier?

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Comments

  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭
    Ben,

    I have to disagree with you about the Stargell having better eye appeal. Look how small the border is on the bottom of your Stargell. The Rose has much better centering and eye appeal, IMO.

    Edited to add: I measure the ROSE at 58/42 l/r, within the "9" parameters. I'm not sure how to measure the T/B on these 63's, but the Stargell is clearly o/c.
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • mattinglymint23mattinglymint23 Posts: 1,261 ✭✭
    The centering on the rose may just be 60/40
    It's the touched corner and dis coloring on right edge that kills it for me. Not a pretty 9 at all.
    But the OC is not a factor IMO because there is no tilt and one edge is not pushing 10%
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭


    << <i>Ben,

    I have to disagree with you about the Stargell having better eye appeal. Look how small the border is on the bottom of your Stargell. The Rose has much better centering and eye appeal, IMO. >>



    +1
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • otwcardsotwcards Posts: 5,291 ✭✭✭
    Because the Rose is not OC... It has a little shift to the right and is centered a little high, but is still within tolerance for a PSA 9. The Stargell is clearly OC top to bottom and might not get a straight PSA 7 if graded without the qualifier...
  • slum22slum22 Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
    I think they are both graded accurately. The Rose does not have great centering for a 9 but I think it is within standard for the grade. The T/B on the Stargell is severe enough that I do think the Rose presents better and I think the OC designation is appropriate for your Stargell.
    Steve
  • BIGBEN7BIGBEN7 Posts: 395 ✭✭✭
    I do realize my Stargell is o/c but I can live with the o/c at the bottom since the sides are 50/50. The Rose has different size borders on left, right and bottom which makes it hard on my eyes.
    image
  • jay0791jay0791 Posts: 3,550 ✭✭✭✭
    agree with above.

    Not a great 9 but maybe it will be priced right.
    Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets
    1948-76 Topps FB Sets
    FB & BB HOF Player sets
    1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
  • LittletweedLittletweed Posts: 623 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think they are both graded accurately. The Rose does not have great centering for a 9 but I think it is within standard for the grade. The T/B on the Stargell is severe enough that I do think the Rose presents better and I think the OC designation is appropriate for your Stargell. >>



    I agree with this. There is also a tilt on the Stargell, doesn't bother me (sharp card btw), but it is there.
    Matt

  • DanBessetteDanBessette Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Because the Rose is not OC... It has a little shift to the right and is centered a little high, but is still within tolerance for a PSA 9. The Stargell is clearly OC top to bottom and might not get a straight PSA 7 if graded without the qualifier... >>



    +1
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,742 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The centering on the Rose card is not appealing to me for a Mint 9 card (card was also graded long ago, when PSA was more lenient on centering, in my experience), but the Stargell is much worse centering-wise and almost MC.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • MikeyPMikeyP Posts: 990 ✭✭✭
    The Pete Rose card appears to be 60/40. It should therefore be graded as a PSA 8. The Willie Stargell card appears to be very off-centered from top to bottom.
    "Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood."
  • DboneesqDboneesq Posts: 18,219 ✭✭


    << <i>The Pete Rose card appears to be 60/40. It should therefore be graded as a PSA 8. The Willie Stargell card appears to be very off-centered from top to bottom. >>


    60/40 is within the parameters of a "9".
    STAY HEALTHY!

    Doug

    Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
  • mlbfan2mlbfan2 Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I do realize my Stargell is o/c but I can live with the o/c at the bottom since the sides are 50/50. >>



    I guess at some point it's 50/50! Toward the top of the card, the left border is narrower, and at the bottom, it's wider.

  • creecree Posts: 393 ✭✭
    The top to bottom centering is very noticeable. IMO.
  • PiggsPiggs Posts: 1,938 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ben,

    I have to disagree with you about the Stargell having better eye appeal. Look how small the border is on the bottom of your Stargell. The Rose has much better centering and eye appeal, IMO.

    Edited to add: I measure the ROSE at 58/42 l/r, within the "9" parameters. I'm not sure how to measure the T/B on these 63's, but the Stargell is clearly o/c. >>



    +3
  • MikeyPMikeyP Posts: 990 ✭✭✭


    << <i>60/40 is within the parameters of a "9". >>



    This could open up a whole new discussion. I was always under the impression that 60/40 was considered to be Near Mint-Mint. At least that is what is defined in Beckett magazine. Wouldn't that be considered a PSA 8 grade?
    "Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood."
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,742 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>60/40 is within the parameters of a "9". >>



    This could open up a whole new discussion. I was always under the impression that 60/40 was considered to be Near Mint-Mint. At least that is what is defined in Beckett magazine. Wouldn't that be considered a PSA 8 grade? >>



    65/35 is still within Mint 9 parameters. 60/40 is actually within the standard for a PSA 10.

    From PSA site:

    MINT 9: Mint
    A PSA Mint 9 is a superb condition card that exhibits only one of the following minor flaws: a very slight wax stain on reverse, a minor printing imperfection or slightly off-white borders. Centering must be approximately 60/40 to 65/35 or better on the front and 90/10 or better on the reverse.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • MikeyPMikeyP Posts: 990 ✭✭✭
    Thanks Grote. 90/10 on the reverse is news to me.
    "Nobody's ever gone the distance with Creed, and if I can go that distance, you see, and that bell rings and I'm still standin', I'm gonna know for the first time in my life, see, that I weren't just another bum from the neighborhood."
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    You are would be extremely lucky to get the '7' on the OC Stargell. I had one that looks extremely similar to it and it only pulled a '5' from SGC.

    image
  • itzagoneritzagoner Posts: 8,753 ✭✭
    to answer the OP's original question: your eyes are missing what we in the game like to call Anti-Denial Glasses Bigger.
  • corncobbcorncobb Posts: 516 ✭
    Bobby's SGC 5 Stargell is a more eye appealling card than the PSA 9 o/c. at least its straight
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,742 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Bobby's SGC 5 Stargell is a more eye appealling card than the PSA 9 o/c. at least its straight >>



    The OP's card has better L/R centering and a better top right corner and surface registration, too.


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • BIGBEN7BIGBEN7 Posts: 395 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Bobby's SGC 5 Stargell is a more eye appealling card than the PSA 9 o/c. at least its straight >>



    The OP's card has better L/R centering and a better top right corner and surface registration, too. >>



    The scan does not due the 9 o/c justice. If the bottom of the card was like the L/R centering this card would be in a 10 holder. The corners are razor sharp, the color and gloss looks like the card just came out of the pack and the back is also super clean. This card was graded a 9 for a reason.
    image
  • mattyc_collectionmattyc_collection Posts: 2,130 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd pay a huge premium for a dead centered 7 or 8 before I would pay VCP average for that Rose 9. I know it's within guidelines, but that's where my taste and the guidelines part ways. For 10k+, I need centering. With all that color in the body of the card and white border framing it, bad centering kills that design for me.

    Instagram: mattyc_collection

  • bishopbishop Posts: 2,917 ✭✭✭
    Bigben---you have a very good looking Rose, congrats
    Topps Baseball-1948, 1951 to 2017
    Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
    Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007

    Al
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