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At what point can an Ebay seller cancel a sale?
MGLICKER
Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭
...or are there no exceptions by forum standards?
The story has been told here before. Sharp eyed collector picks rare variety and someone tips off the unknowing seller (professional or not).
Seller cancels the sale and refunds the money. Seller gets scorched on the forum.
Now lets take this to an extreme. Perhaps it is not a $1200 or $5000 coin, but a Coiled Hair Stella that is worth $300k. Highly improbable certainly, but possible. Is the seller expected to ship this coin, when he thought it was only a 1/4 ounce of Gold, worth $350, but quickly finds out the true value.
Perhaps it is a Stradivarius Viola that was found at a garage sale instead*. Buy it now of $500. Real value $45,000,000.
I know that these examples are extreme, but is there a number where the seller has cover?
Perhaps a few of the forum legal minds can chime in on this as well.
*didn't happen. For illustration purposes only.
The story has been told here before. Sharp eyed collector picks rare variety and someone tips off the unknowing seller (professional or not).
Seller cancels the sale and refunds the money. Seller gets scorched on the forum.
Now lets take this to an extreme. Perhaps it is not a $1200 or $5000 coin, but a Coiled Hair Stella that is worth $300k. Highly improbable certainly, but possible. Is the seller expected to ship this coin, when he thought it was only a 1/4 ounce of Gold, worth $350, but quickly finds out the true value.
Perhaps it is a Stradivarius Viola that was found at a garage sale instead*. Buy it now of $500. Real value $45,000,000.
I know that these examples are extreme, but is there a number where the seller has cover?
Perhaps a few of the forum legal minds can chime in on this as well.
*didn't happen. For illustration purposes only.
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Comments
He will be required to pay ebay fees on such a sale unless you agree to his formal ebay request to cancel. I believe if you agree to the cancel you will not be able to leave feedback, but not sure.
A $300K coin that was picked for $300 just might force the issue to a court where we would finally get an answer on the "contract" issue.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
A simple, "I can't find it" and what can you do? Your money is returned, and you do not have a case at all.
(Oh, wait... that's not quite right. . . the buyer has a few weeks to return the item, for just about any willy-nilly reason whatsoever.)
My thinking is eBay is so set up to protect the buyer that on that occasion where the seller messes up big time, there should be an "out" for the seller.
peacockcoins
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i> where eBay knows that the seller is going to relist the item for a much higher value, would anyone here seriously believe that eBay is going to make an issue of non-performance ? Its all about the money. >>
EBay's only objective is the house rake. Sellers and buyers on the site are little more than necessary nuisances.
<< <i>Seller can refuse to complete a sale up to the time he ships it. You cannot prevent him from refunding your money and telling you "no deal." Ebay will not force him to deliver but I believe they will put a "strike" against him if you report it to ebay. Not sure how many "strikes" it takes for ebay to finally take action against a seller.
He will be required to pay ebay fees on such a sale unless you agree to his formal ebay request to cancel. I believe if you agree to the cancel you will not be able to leave feedback, but not sure.
A $300K coin that was picked for $300 just might force the issue to a court where we would finally get an answer on the "contract" issue. >>
I got my final value fees refunded on a sale I refused to follow through with because buyer was an obvious scammer. I have a thread on here about it so I'm not gonna type out all the details. It had nothing to do with the price, but the fact I was not gonna ship a $3000 coin to someone with 1 feedback who left me a negative within a couple of hours for something that was not even right. Ebay also removed the negative after reviewing the facts as well.
Edited to add yes the seller refused to cancel the transaction. Even had ebay write me to try to get me to follow through. I told them my side and said Nope!
type2,CCHunter.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>How many here would actually sell and ship a $5K coin for $100 because a deal is a deal? >>
....and that is the question?
<< <i>up until the coin is in the mail. >>
Or perhaps after that with a USPS intercept.
USPS
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>How many here would actually sell and ship a $5K coin for $100 because a deal is a deal? >>
If you are selling this coin for that.............you should not be selling coins I think!
<< <i>
<< <i>How many here would actually sell and ship a $5K coin for $100 because a deal is a deal? >>
If you are selling this coin for that.............you should not be selling coins I think!
People make mistakes [some honest I expect] all the time. Recall the thread about one eBay seller who wanted $50 more AFTER he sold the coin. A lot of folks sell expensive stuff for pennies on the dollar [not necessarily on eBay] either out of ignorance or they just want a quick buck.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I wouldn't. OP and Bajjerfan are making the point that there are nuances to some of these transactions, whether they be a cherrypick of lifetime gone bad; legitimate listing error by seller; or some other situation whereby buyer stands to be in line to acquire a coin for far below its true value.
I have raised this point many times in arguing that the 'size' of the rip does play a part in deciding whether one side or the other has been unfairly taken advantage.
We can argue over how much of a loss a seller should be willing to take on any given set of facts, but the simple point being driven home here is that we all have a level where if we were the seller, we wouldn't be willing to simply swallow the loss.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
say you think you cherrypicked a $1,000 variety off ebay for $300. when you get the coin in hand, you find that you were mistaken, and the coin is only worth $50.
would you keep the coin "because a deal is a deal", and the coin was indeed *as described in the listing*, you just made a mistake?
or run to the post office to return it, cancel the sale, and get your money back?
<< <i>A simple, "I can't find it" and what can you do? Your money is returned, and you do not have a case at all. >>
thats been done many times already
User agreement
The last point under purchase conditions states the following:
Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2) apply to the transfer of ownership between the buyer and the seller, unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise.
Here is the UCC code:
UCC 2-401(2)
If I remember correctly from my Law classes, title normally transfers when the product is physically delivered unless stated otherwise. I think this means a seller can cancel up until the point of physical delivery.
Lawyers can help me out at any time
Many pawn/consignment shops list items in online auctions with the disclaimer "All items are subject to prior sale." It gives them an easy out, even if they need to stretch the truth a bit.
The reason seller fees exist is to a) make a profit for the owners of the auction site, and b) to cover the slop that results from imprecise human behavior inherent to any trading situation.
<< <i>Anyone who buys and sells on eBay has agreed to the user agreement here:
User agreement
The last point under purchase conditions states the following:
Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2) apply to the transfer of ownership between the buyer and the seller, unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise.
Here is the UCC code:
UCC 2-401(2)
If I remember correctly from my Law classes, title normally transfers when the product is physically delivered unless stated otherwise. I think this means a seller can cancel up until the point of physical delivery.
Lawyers can help me out at any time
So what does the UCC say about compelling someone to honor a deal/sale? I assume that we are talking about a casual sale here.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>how about if you reverse the story..
say you think you cherrypicked a $1,000 variety off ebay for $300. when you get the coin in hand, you find that you were mistaken, and the coin is only worth $50.
would you keep the coin "because a deal is a deal", and the coin was indeed *as described in the listing*, you just made a mistake?
or run to the post office to return it, cancel the sale, and get your money back? >>
No sale is ever final on eBay. PP/eBay say so. A deal is a deal doesn't apply for eBay. Since returns are allowed/forced for any reason, I'd send it back since I didn't tell the seller that I was buying it for a specific reason. A casual sale here on the boards is another story.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
I said the price on the computer doesn't matter they are obligated to sell it to me at the marked price.
The manager said I was right and I got it at the lower price.
Wouldn't this be the same as a buy it now?
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone who buys and sells on eBay has agreed to the user agreement here:
User agreement
The last point under purchase conditions states the following:
Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2) apply to the transfer of ownership between the buyer and the seller, unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise.
Here is the UCC code:
UCC 2-401(2)
If I remember correctly from my Law classes, title normally transfers when the product is physically delivered unless stated otherwise. I think this means a seller can cancel up until the point of physical delivery.
Lawyers can help me out at any time
So what does the UCC say about compelling someone to honor a deal/sale? I assume that we are talking about a casual sale here. >>
I honestly can't remember as its been 25 years since I have had a law class. I know there are rules for offer and acceptance and there are also rules for auctions. Hoping someone with more knowledge and experience can step in at this point.
<< <i>how about if you reverse the story..
say you think you cherrypicked a $1,000 variety off ebay for $300. when you get the coin in hand, you find that you were mistaken, and the coin is only worth $50.
would you keep the coin "because a deal is a deal", and the coin was indeed *as described in the listing*, you just made a mistake?
or run to the post office to return it, cancel the sale, and get your money back? >>
I have well over $2000 in these because I didn't return my botched cherrypicks
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How many here would actually sell and ship a $5K coin for $100 because a deal is a deal? >>
If you are selling this coin for that.............you should not be selling coins I think!
People make mistakes [some honest I expect] all the time. Recall the thread about one eBay seller who wanted $50 more AFTER he sold the coin. A lot of folks sell expensive stuff for pennies on the dollar [not necessarily on eBay] either out of ignorance or they just want a quick buck. >>
Agreed, but you say 5 grand for a hundie! You have no business listing that baby!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>How many here would actually sell and ship a $5K coin for $100 because a deal is a deal? >>
If you are selling this coin for that.............you should not be selling coins I think!
People make mistakes [some honest I expect] all the time. Recall the thread about one eBay seller who wanted $50 more AFTER he sold the coin. A lot of folks sell expensive stuff for pennies on the dollar [not necessarily on eBay] either out of ignorance or they just want a quick buck. >>
Agreed, but you say 5 grand for a hundie! You have no business listing that baby!! >>
True, but do you remember when Superior I think it was listed a bunch of pricey coins at BINs of $1? Do you think they even completed the sale, much less shipped them? Pretty likely that most of those mismatch deals involve something other than ignorance. If one got cherrypicked and found out before one shipped the coin, I think I'd be loathe to complete the deal.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
<< <i>"Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2) apply to the transfer of ownership between the buyer and the seller, unless the buyer and the seller agree otherwise." >>
However, UCC "laws" cannot be enforced unless specifically adopted by statute in the applicable state.
Give Me Liberty or Give Me Debt
<< <i>I once went to the check out with a lawnmower that was mismarked by $200. They wanted to charge me full price.
I said the price on the computer doesn't matter they are obligated to sell it to me at the marked price.
The manager said I was right and I got it at the lower price.
Wouldn't this be the same as a buy it now? >>
The decision to honor a mismarked price is made by the retailer for good will reasons, and not because of any legal obligation.
In some states consumer protection laws punish retailers for a pattern of pricing errors...scanners that often improperly price goods, e.g.
But in general pricing errors have been found to be non-binding. Deceptive pricing such bait and switch is another matter entirely.
Lance.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>
<< <i>I once went to the check out with a lawnmower that was mismarked by $200. They wanted to charge me full price.
I said the price on the computer doesn't matter they are obligated to sell it to me at the marked price.
The manager said I was right and I got it at the lower price.
Wouldn't this be the same as a buy it now? >>
The decision to honor a mismarked price is made by the retailer for good will reasons, and not because of any legal obligation.
In some states consumer protection laws punish retailers for a pattern of pricing errors...scanners that often improperly price goods, e.g.
But in general pricing errors have been found to be non-binding. Deceptive pricing such bait and switch is another matter entirely.
Lance. >>
One grocery store chain here says "If the shelf price and the scanner don't agree; you get the item free."
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876