An eBay nightmare - update

JHS5120

In early August 2013 I sold a 2004 Yankees team-signed Steiner jersey for $900. The buyer paid and I never heard from them again, I assumed everything went well. Earlier this week I receive a notice that the buyer initiated a credit card chargeback for the $900 OVER SEVEN MONTHS LATER!

I thought this must be a mistake, but I checked the tracking number and sure enough it was never delivered. Delivery status below:

August 8, 2013 , 11:22 pm
Delivery status not updated

August 8, 2013 , 9:22 am
Out for Delivery
WAYNE, NJ 07470

August 8, 2013 , 9:12 am
Sorting Complete
WAYNE, NJ 07470

August 8, 2013 , 7:18 am
Arrival at Post Office
WAYNE, NJ 07470

I just got off the phone with USPS and it's too late to file any sort of insurance claim and they redirected me to the Northern NJ Office of Consumer Affairs (so basically it's lost).

I have 5 days to respond to the PayPal claim and I am certain to lose because, well, the guy never got the jersey. I'm screwed.

You know, you try your best to protect yourself, but in the end there will always be a stupid loophole that you fall into. Why the f%@# would someone wait SEVEN FREAKING MONTHS to tell PayPal they never received the item!?!? I'm thinking my only option would be to make a plea with PayPal. I really don't imagine this turning out well. If anyone has any suggestions I'm certainly all ears.

TheDudeAbides

Exactly ... why wait seven months? Very, very fishy. Seems like he took advantage of the "undelivered" status. That would just set me off. The USPS should have some liability in this matter.

WhiteTornado

Geez, what a joke. Seems like there should be some sort of statute of limitations on a buyer doing that.

grote15

<< <i>Geez, what a joke. Seems like there should be some sort of statute of limitations on a buyer doing that. >>



+1

Paypal has one but apparently the guy's credit card co doesn't. I smell a scam. No legit buyer would wait this long.

Black00SS

<< <i>

<< <i>Geez, what a joke. Seems like there should be some sort of statute of limitations on a buyer doing that. >>



+1

Paypal has one but apparently the guy's credit card co doesn't. I smell a scam. No legit buyer would wait this long. >>



+2

bumpskier

Doesn't anything over $250 require signature confirmation?

EagleEyeKid

This is why it's always good to check on the status of the tracking until it is complete. I get a few of those "status not updated" after it's been out for delivery,
and able to get it resolved. I smell a scam too. Carrier probably forgot to scan it, but it needs signature confirmation....looks like you didn't get it?

aconte

Wow! This is terrible.

aconte

yankeeno7

I had a similar thing happen to me but luckily only a 10.00 item. I would bet my bottom dollar the item was delivered and the delivering post office failed to scan the delivery. The person opened an ebay case and I just refunded because I knew I would lose anyway (after listening to some words of wisdom here).

People are so incredibly dishonest. If someone screws up, they are there to take advantage of the situation.

coachnip13

<< <i>This is why it's always good to check on the status of the tracking until it is complete. >>



This. I can't imagine shipping a $900 item and not checking to see that it was delivered.

JHS5120

It had signature confirmation, but no one signed for it/scanned it delivered. I honestly don't suspect foul play- if the person wanted to scan me he didn't need to wait 7 months to do so. I'm assuming someone was doing there taxes and saw a $900 credit card charge or something. I don't know.

I don't check the delivery status on all of my packages. 99.999% of the time if there's no news, that's good news with selling on eBay. It's reasonable to assume a buyer received their item if they never tell you they hadn't.

grote15

Have you tried contacting the buyer to find out what his story is?

JHS5120

<< <i>Have you tried contacting the buyer to find out what his story is? >>



Paypal refuses to give me his number. I sent an email, they never replied.

addicted2ebay

No one pays $900 for something and then 7 months later realizes they never received it. Not contacting you and going straight to a charge back is a red flag also.

Slabbed

Sounds like he is running a nice scam on you. Look at all of the options that are open to you. Do not let him get away with this. Tell E-bay and paypal its a little late after 7 months to file a non delivery claim. If his credit card pays him back fine. But don't send anything from you.

grote15

<< <i>

<< <i>Have you tried contacting the buyer to find out what his story is? >>



Paypal refuses to give me his number. I sent an email, they never replied. >>



The fact that he never even replied pretty much confirms he's scamming you, imo.

shagrotn77

No doubt in my mind it's a scam. The dude probably didn't realize until recently that the tracking status never updated to "delivered". Once he did, he saw an opportunity to be a slimy SOB. I recently had an item sent to me that required a signature, but was left without me signing for it. I guess this happens from time to time. Sorry if you answered this already, but did he leave you feedback?

mtcards

Gotta agree. I guarantee if I bought something for $900 and it didnt show up in a week, I would be contacting you, much less 7 months


Again, dude is pulling something and the USPS is driving the getaway car on it

bobbyw8469

Hearing crap like this makes me hate Ebay more and more. Sorry this happened to you!

MiniDuff

This does not make any sense. Ebay has a 45 day window to report an item not received, this is well outside of it. You have 60 days to report a problem on a bank statement, not 9 months, same idea. The time limits are built around the recourse.

How can you lose the case?

magikbilly

Perhaps he knew you had a maximum of 180 days (about 6 months) to claim the insurance with the USPS? I dunno.

Eric

JMDVM

Who in their right mind spends $900 on an item, then wakes up 7 months later and says to himself "You know, I never got my item...."? But if his story is true, isn't it wonderful how the post office absolves itself of all blame?

JMDVM

Another thought: if you canceled your Paypal account or severed all links to your credit card or bank account, can Paypal still access your account?

grote15

<< <i>This does not make any sense. Ebay has a 45 day window to report an item not received, this is well outside of it. You have 60 days to report a problem on a bank statement, not 9 months, same idea. The time limits are built around the recourse.

How can you lose the case? >>



If a person files a chargeback with their CC provider, that trumps all ebay and paypal rules. Paypal frowns upon that, but they must abide by it, and in this day and age, credit card companies are far more lenient when it comes to these issues than they should be.

JHS5120

<< <i>This does not make any sense. Ebay has a 45 day window to report an item not received, this is well outside of it. You have 60 days to report a problem on a bank statement, not 9 months, same idea. The time limits are built around the recourse.

How can you lose the case? >>



I asked the same question. This isn't through eBay or his bank account- this is through his credit card. Apparently some credit cards give you a one year window to file a chargeback claim.

JHS5120

<< <i>Another thought: if you canceled your Paypal account or severed all links to your credit card or bank account, can Paypal still access your account? >>



Paypal already freezed the $900. They do that the moment there is a claim filed.

grote15

<< <i>Another thought: if you canceled your Paypal account or severed all links to your credit card or bank account, can Paypal still access your account? >>



I don't believe they can, or at least they couldn't in the past, unless that has changed, too. But they will refer the debt to collections, and it will hit your credit report.

Wolfgang427

Just yesterday I had a guy from Australia email me if the 1st class package I sent him(not sports related) had any tracking# on it as he was still waiting on it. I emailed him back and said yes it actually has as you get free tracking if you pay and do a label online with USPS and gave him the tracking# by USPS showing the package was delivered the day before to his address in Australia, never heard back from him after that, but I was suspecting that he thought it had no tracking so he could file a claim on it. Hard to trust people unless you cover your ass all the time

Wolfgang427

PS: I too suspect he's pulling a scam on you. Why wait so long on a expensive item to complain about an item never received???

vols1

You have to write Paypal and tell them to dispute the charge in order to take the the case to arbitration. Because if they don't you'll automatically lose.

MiniDuff

Credit card issuers can not make up their own rules, they are bound by Visa and MasterCard framework. A bank can initiate a chargeback as a courtesy, but the bank almost (and I am speaking from executive experience here), almost always loses.

In this case, the issuer (the bank that provided your buyers credit card) had 120 days to present the first chargeback to be timely:


1.7.3 Time Frame for First Chargeback

In cases that involve the delayed delivery of goods or performance of services
that the cardholder asserts the merchant never provided, MasterCard will
calculate the period of 120 days from the latest anticipated date that the
merchant was to provide the goods or services.

Fight it, all the way to arbitration if you need to. That is what would happen if the buyer had no money and you had no money. Paypal is acting as a courtesy to the issuing bank since you had funds. Had you had no funds, and no backup funding, they would fight this chargeback and win.

mlbfan2

I found a couple of posts on ebay's message board that may be helpful...

"Some years back I sold an item and SIX MONTHS later, the buyer filed a chargeback. Paypal refunded the money, but since I had retained my shipping label receipt, I had proof of shipment. The post office no longer had online tracking after six months, despite the tracking number being made available. If you shipped through paypal, or paid for shipping through paypal, you can find your shipping information there as well."

---

"Often enough, the buyer is not even aware of these chargebacks. If they dispute any payment as unauthorized, their bank sometimes disputes ALL their transactions to a given merchant (such as paypal), or during a cerain time period.
If you printed the label through eBay or paypal, they should already have the tracking. At paypal, click on "resolve" and "add tracking" and it should already be there. If it is, phone or email paypal, remind them of seller protection, and they should release those funds shortly.
If you printed the label elsewhere online, you should have an email somewhere with the tracking. Again, "resolve" by adding the DC if it's not their. If you purchased DC at the counter and threw away the receipt without already giving tracking to ebay, you are not protected, and are at the mercy of the buyer's bank. IF this is one of those cluster-bomb chargebacks, the buyer may be able to get yours un-disputed, but that's apparently not easy with some banks."

grote15

Jason,

Also, be aware, too, that paypal will apply any incoming payments you receive from other buyers for any other purchases to that paypal account against the negative balance you now have in your account. Even though you won't get that money (at this point, at least), you'd be bound to ship the product to the those buyers under these circumstances.

MinorLeaguer

<< <i>Who in their right mind spends $900 on an item, then wakes up 7 months later and says to himself "You know, I never got my item...."? But if his story is true, isn't it wonderful how the post office absolves itself of all blame? >>



It could be doing taxes that woke him up. You'd be amazed how many previous year un-cashed dividend check replacement requests in the 5-6 figure range come into the office this time of year when the customers do their taxes and see their 1099-DIV and the light bulb goes off that they never cashed the original dividend check that they receive every quarter. Story is fishy, but he is from Wayne, NJ which is an affluent NYC suburb. He could be one of those affluent busy guys where he just doesn't miss $900 stuff. Wish i could have that problem, lol.

A second issue is Wayne, NJ is prone to massive heavy flooding and resulting damage. Try and research if there was any flooding there at the time u sent it.

Hope it works out for you.

zep33

I'd go to a post office, ask for a postmaster and have him run it on their internal tracking system. Maybe you can find out it was delivered that way.

sorry this is happening man.

Happened to me a few years ago selling a Heritage master set. I think it was a little over 3 months later when the guy filed a credit card charge back. I still had the tracking and showed it delivered though. The guy ended up "finding it" after fighting the charge back

soundgard

Paypal steals hundreds of thousands from people every year and they are still allowed to continue.

PSARich

I agree with zep33. I posted recently that I had a situation where USPS posted all four packages I mailed as having been delivered on the day I mailed them, even though they were going out of state. They screwed up when they were first scanned. Several buyers immediately emailed me that they wanted to know what was up as they obviously hadn't received anything yet. I contacted the local claims department at USPS and was told that despite the fact that nothing would be added to the tracking site for those four cards (once listed as "delivered" nothing new can apparently be added to the site), that the claims dep't guy could track the package using their internal tracking system. He did and gave me printouts showing all four cards were delivered. So give it a try.

I have got to the point where I now insure any package I send that has cards totaling more than $100 just to protect myself from these situations. I have had only had a few problems with the many hundreds of packages I have sent out, but this way I am covered. Fortunately, most of the cards I sell are valued less than that.

EchoCanyon

<< <i> Story is fishy, but he is from Wayne, NJ which is an affluent NYC suburb. He could be one of those affluent busy guys where he just doesn't miss $900 stuff. Wish i could have that problem, lol. >>



I never knew Wayne, NJ to be affluent.

PaulMaul

<< <i>

<< <i> Story is fishy, but he is from Wayne, NJ which is an affluent NYC suburb. He could be one of those affluent busy guys where he just doesn't miss $900 stuff. Wish i could have that problem, lol. >>



I never knew Wayne, NJ to be affluent. >>



It's fairly affluent. It's right next door to Patterson which is anything but.

JHS5120

An update:

I responded to the claim and PayPal immediately ruled against me, but offered to help fight the credit card company. Approximately a month later, the credit card company also ruled against me.

After speaking with Paypal and explaining the situation a representative agreed to submit my claim to their Buyer Protection Department. After a couple phone calls and an email, Paypal finally refunded the amount I originally paid for the jersey, $650, as a courtesy.

At this point I'm very pleased to get back my money, but the entire process still leaves a bitter taste in my mouth.

Jason

telephoto1

Glad to hear you at least made some recovery on this. Chargeback abuse is rampant on eBay and they do very little to combat it.

WhiteTornado

Could have turned out a lot worse. Glad you recouped your money; I'm sure it feels like a major relief.

basketballcollector

Would it have made any difference if he sent it registered or certified when he shipped it ?

JHS5120

<< <i>Would it have made any difference if he sent it registered or certified when he shipped it ? >>



No. If I sent it certified and it was still missing the final signature nothing would have changed.

CollectorAtWork

Meant to reply to this before. Glad this worked out for you with Paypal agreeing to reimburse you. For all we complain about paypal and ebay, sometimes they really help out with buyer charge backs like this. For me, Paypal has reimbursed me twice for bank chargebanks for cards that were purchased on ebay, and into the several hundred dollars worth. So whenever ebay/paypal raise fees, I try to think about these situations where they really helped out.