Is this a fugly psa 10 yount rookie?

lseecon

How did this get a 10. Just seems cut weird.
http://www.milehighcardco.com/1975-Topps-223-Robin-Yount-PSA-10-GEM-MINT-LOT32746.aspx

mattyc_collection

Seems like a pretty solid 10 to me. I wouldn't kick that card out of bed, put it that way.

ergoism

Anything other than "just seems cut weird" or is that your entire story?

divecchia

Donato

Jlondon71

Looks pretty solid to me. Can't find any flaws there..

beagle25

he meant the tilted centering on the back.

Stingray

<< <i>he meant the tilted centering on the back. >>



I can see a slight tilt on the front too.

Dpeck100

The only issue I see is the back is a little off but the front looks amazing. When you view it from the back it looks like it is slightly tilted in the holder too.

I have come to the conclusion that you can't make everyone happy with cards. I have seen more 10's posted on this board that people picked on then applauded.

Quite frankly it gets pretty old. PSA called it a 10 and it will bring 10 money and make someone happy.

DanBessette

I agree with Dpeck. Nothing wrong with that card, and tired of the complaining

gregmo32

Is that the first PSA 10? I seem to remember that, for the longest time, there were not any graded. That may have been a long time ago...

lseecon

More power to the seller of this yount. I hope he gets top dollar. I'm not complaining just trying to understand differences between psa 9s and 10s given the unreal price differences in most cards between the two grades. I should have explained my original post that the back of this card quite frankly is not attractive. The front looks great. I was surprised when I looked at the back to see the angle cut, the off center and the flared upper corner. But if psa says it's a 10 then it must be so and as pointed out by someone so all is good. Personally for that type of money I want perfection all around and I have seen psa 9s that look perfect. Some people buy the card not the holder and some people buy the holder not the card. To each his own and I don't care either way. I also have cards that look as nice as this yount on the front but not so much on the reverse but perhaps they have fighting chances of grading at 10s. I'm still a novice at differentiating psa 9s from psa 10s and doubt my skills will improve much.
Perhaps the better trained eyes out there can point out to the novice grader such as myself why the yount is a 10 but this yaz from the same auction is "just" a 9. I guarantee you that looking at the backs the yaz looks a lot better. The fronts to me also look the same but apparently that is to the untrained novice eye such as myself. And no I'm not the owner of this yaz (but I wish I was). http://www.milehighcardco.com/1975-Topps-280-Carl-Yastrzemski-PSA-9-MINT-LOT31852.aspx
Perhaps someone with better computer skills can post the fronts and backs of both cards. Thx

Dusto

The card looks perfectly fine in a 10 holder to me. I totally understand not wanting to shell out any cash if you don't like the looks of any card, as many of us here will wait countless months or even years to find the perfect example for their collection, but other collectors may not have the same desire for a centered front and back.

mattyc_collection

<< <i>More power to the seller of this yount. I hope he gets top dollar. I'm not complaining just trying to understand differences between psa 9s and 10s given the unreal price differences in most cards between the two grades. I should have explained my original post that the back of this card quite frankly is not attractive. The front looks great. I was surprised when I looked at the back to see the angle cut, the off center and the flared upper corner. But if psa says it's a 10 then it must be so and as pointed out by someone so all is good. Personally for that type of money I want perfection all around and I have seen psa 9s that look perfect. Some people buy the card not the holder and some people buy the holder not the card. To each his own and I don't care either way. I also have cards that look as nice as this yount on the front but not so much on the reverse but perhaps they have fighting chances of grading at 10s. I'm still a novice at differentiating psa 9s from psa 10s and doubt my skills will improve much.
Perhaps the better trained eyes out there can point out to the novice grader such as myself why the yount is a 10 but this yaz from the same auction is "just" a 9. I guarantee you that looking at the backs the yaz looks a lot better. The fronts to me also look the same but apparently that is to the untrained novice eye such as myself. And no I'm not the owner of this yaz (but I wish I was). http://www.milehighcardco.com/1975-Topps-280-Carl-Yastrzemski-PSA-9-MINT-LOT31852.aspx
Perhaps someone with better computer skills can post the fronts and backs of both cards. Thx >>



The difference between the best 9s and being a 10 is infinitesimal. Often times it is just serendipity, or lack thereof. I have heard this from many a grader. If you buy the best card regardless of the holder it is in, be it 9 or 10, you will always be fine.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>More power to the seller of this yount. I hope he gets top dollar. I'm not complaining just trying to understand differences between psa 9s and 10s given the unreal price differences in most cards between the two grades. I should have explained my original post that the back of this card quite frankly is not attractive. The front looks great. I was surprised when I looked at the back to see the angle cut, the off center and the flared upper corner. But if psa says it's a 10 then it must be so and as pointed out by someone so all is good. Personally for that type of money I want perfection all around and I have seen psa 9s that look perfect. Some people buy the card not the holder and some people buy the holder not the card. To each his own and I don't care either way. I also have cards that look as nice as this yount on the front but not so much on the reverse but perhaps they have fighting chances of grading at 10s. I'm still a novice at differentiating psa 9s from psa 10s and doubt my skills will improve much.
Perhaps the better trained eyes out there can point out to the novice grader such as myself why the yount is a 10 but this yaz from the same auction is "just" a 9. I guarantee you that looking at the backs the yaz looks a lot better. The fronts to me also look the same but apparently that is to the untrained novice eye such as myself. And no I'm not the owner of this yaz (but I wish I was). http://www.milehighcardco.com/1975-Topps-280-Carl-Yastrzemski-PSA-9-MINT-LOT31852.aspx
Perhaps someone with better computer skills can post the fronts and backs of both cards. Thx >>


I would rather have that Yaz in my collection than the Yount as well. Back centering bothers me more than most and seems to be of little concern to PSA unless it's actually miscut.

cardcountry

I'd buy it in a second if I could swing it right now. Looks like a worthy 10, and it's a card that's hot with huge upside

Jeff

hyperchipper09

<< <i>I'd buy it in a second if I could swing it right now. Looks like a worthy 10, and it's a card that's hot with huge upside

Jeff >>




Same here. Not seeing the problem with this one.

mattyc_collection

As others above mention, and I am NOT saying that is the case with the original post here, it seems a common thread theme is the old, "How on earth is that a 10 thread?!"

I think we can all agree on a few things, for the eternal record:

1. The difference between the best 9s and 10s is infinitesimal, at best. Indeed there are 10s out there, hiding or masquerading in 9 holders.
2. Some 10s got very lucky on their day.
3. Some guys are blinded by the 10 sticker, and will spend "legit 10 money" on a card that would likely not get that 10 grade if cracked.
4. Then there are 10s that would 10 more than half the times submitted; these can be considered true GEM MT cards, and deserve the grade and the price commanded.
5. Some guys get angry their "10 in a 9 holder" is not graded a 10. Others understand they get serious props for having bought a GEM MT card at a fraction of the price.
6. Some guys need sticker or others' validation; other guys know their eyes are good and know what they have.
7. Once a card is in a 9 holder, all a grader needs to see upon review is ANY TINY blemish, to keep the card in its current holder. Even if a greater blemish somehow escaped the graders' eyes on another 10. This is not fair, but it's just how life goes.

Then, I think, sometimes we have good old fashioned..."TENVY."

Think of it like envy.

This can be when someone wants to hate on a 10 just because they can't reel it in.

Someone can also have a form of "inverse tenvy", when they know they paid a ton for a higher graded card, but see a lower graded one that throws it an epic beating.

Personally, I am an enormous fan of cards that inspire inverse tenvy.

hyperchipper09

<< <i>As others above mention, and I am NOT saying that is the case with the original post here, it seems a common thread theme is the old, "How on earth is that a 10 thread?!"

I think we can all agree on a few things, for the eternal record:

1. The difference between the best 9s and 10s is infinitesimal, at best. Indeed there are 10s out there, hiding or masquerading in 9 holders.
2. Some 10s got very lucky on their day.
3. Some guys are blinded by the 10 sticker, and will spend "legit 10 money" on a card that would likely not get that 10 grade if cracked.
4. Then there are 10s that would 10 more than half the times submitted; these can be considered true GEM MT cards, and deserve the grade and the price commanded.
5. Some guys get angry their "10 in a 9 holder" is not graded a 10. Others understand they get serious props for having bought a GEM MT card at a fraction of the price.
6. Some guys need sticker or others' validation; other guys know their eyes are good and know what they have.
7. Once a card is in a 9 holder, all a grader needs to see upon review is ANY TINY blemish, to keep the card in its current holder. Even if a greater blemish somehow escaped the graders' eyes on another 10. This is not fair, but it's just how life goes.

Then, I think, sometimes we have good old fashioned..."TENVY."

Think of it like envy.

This can be when someone wants to hate on a 10 just because they can't reel it in.

Someone can also have a form of "inverse tenvy", when they know they paid a ton for a higher graded card, but see a lower graded one that throws it an epic beating.

Personally, I am an enormous fan of cards that inspire inverse tenvy. >>




Agree with all said . I would add that anyone who cracks a card out of a PSA 10 case, if the case isn't damaged in any way, or if they are looking to get it into one of the new PSA cases for some uniformity, is a fool. Especially if you feel as though the PSA 10 you care cracking is not gonna to be a 10 anymore. That would be the height of stupidity.

LarkinCollector

I think in this case it's more a question of what the grading standard is for the back of the card, rather than the normal questions of how consistently those standards are applied. I'm not disagreeing that this card falls in line with the PSA standards for a 10 on the back, but I don't believe those standards are strict enough. IMHO, there shouldn't ever be a 'fugly' 10, and that's why I think you see some significant premiums above PSA 10 prices for Pristine graded cards.

PSA10 - 75/25 percent on the reverse & no mention of tilt anywhere in the grading standards

mattyc_collection

That does open a whole new can of worms, in terms of, "Does each collector agree with the arbitrarily accepted industry definitions?"

I, for example, place a MUCH greater emphasis on centering than the TPGs do. I also put much less emphasis on back damage than the TPGs. I'd take a 2 with a gorgeous centered front and spot of paper loss on back over a 4 that is 85/15 on front with PDs and has a clean back.

Each collector has his own standards that matter most, above the hobby's technical standards. There's a ton of subjectivity at all levels, and the man with the wallet spending his money makes the only call that matters to him, and no one else.

That's one of the reasons I throttled back greatly on The Registry, in that it was sort of steering me to embrace cards I did not want or believe in, because the sticker grade was saying a card was the better one via the Registry, but everything I knew as a collector and evaluator of cards would sometimes disagree-- meaning I'd know the 8 was the far superior card but yet the 9 was "better" in terms of the Registry game. In the end I chose the cards themselves over the game.

hyperchipper09

I did find this on the Photograde portion of the PSA site, resources:

" PSA graders measure from the worst point of the tilt when determining centering"

Now granted, should a gem mint 10 have a tilt? Not in my book. But in PSA's book, even though that comment about tilt concerns a PSA 8 Gretzky card, they clearly leave themselves room to use those same standards regarding even PSA Gem Mint 10's. The wording sets that up perfectly " PSA graders measure from the worst point of the tilt when determining centering"
It's a built in out for PSA. Like it or not, a 10 can have a tilt, and they can explain it.

mattyc_collection

Great point.

In my collection, in order for a card to be a 10, for me to ever pay for a 10, it must have ZERO tilt. Tilt would be a non-starter and keep a card at a 9, for me.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>That does open a whole new can of worms, in terms of, "Does each collector agree with the arbitrarily accepted industry definitions?"

I, for example, place a MUCH greater emphasis on centering than the TPGs do. I also put much less emphasis on back damage than the TPGs. I'd take a 2 with a gorgeous centered front and spot of paper loss on back over a 4 that is 85/15 on front with PDs and has a clean back.

Each collector has his own standards that matter most, above the hobby's technical standards. There's a ton of subjectivity at all levels, and the man with the wallet spending his money makes the only call that matters to him, and no one else.

That's one of the reasons I throttled back greatly on The Registry, in that it was sort of steering me to embrace cards I did not want or believe in, because the sticker grade was saying a card was the better one via the Registry, but everything I knew as a collector and evaluator of cards would sometimes disagree-- meaning I'd know the 8 was the far superior card but yet the 9 was "better" in terms of the Registry game. In the end I chose the cards themselves over the game. >>


Well stated and for pre-war I follow a similar standard and will accept slight paper loss on the back to have a great front. My personal standards adjust by decade of issue pretty much, and a 70s card with that back would not be acceptable at even the current bid much less it's likely hammer.

hyperchipper09

<< <i>Great point.

In my collection, in order for a card to be a 10, for me to ever pay for a 10, it must have ZERO tilt. Tilt would be a non-starter and keep a card at a 9, for me. >>




Agree. I've got a couple of OPC hockey cards in 9, that I would not trade for some 10's I've seen. Either because of tilt, which bugs me, or slightly off registration(yep , seen it on 10's also) which REALLY bugs me. I want a 10 to be as close to 10 as possible. I really don't think there is such a thing as Gem Mint, unless the card was never circulated, and was encapsulated as part of it's printing process . And OPC cards that could actually be 10's in many cases, are shunned for various reasons LOL.

LarkinCollector

<< <i>I did find this on the Photograde portion of the PSA site, resources:

" PSA graders measure from the worst point of the tilt when determining centering"

Now granted, should a gem mint 10 have a tilt? Not in my book. But in PSA's book, even though that comment about tilt concerns a PSA 8 Gretzky card, they clearly leave themselves room to use those same standards regarding even PSA Gem Mint 10's. The wording sets that up perfectly " PSA graders measure from the worst point of the tilt when determining centering"
It's a built in out for PSA. Like it or not, a 10 can have a tilt, and they can explain it. >>


Thanks for looking it up. I thought I was imagining having read that in the past, but couldn't find the word 'tilt' on the Card grading standards.

mattyc_collection

Yes, for Pre-War, I often find myself operating on a much different wavelength than the arbitrarily accepted TPG standards. For example, take the cards pictured below...











Here is the back of the PSA 1:



Time and again, no matter what the numerical grades say, I will pay more money for the "1" than the others. In some instances, the underpinning standard definitions (established by other men a long time ago, and with which I do not concur) are what graders must adhere to, and that in turn leads to some wacky comparative analyses among specific cards. End of the day, when we look at our cards, we look at THE CARD and not the sticker. When I think the card agrees with the sticker, cool, but I will not let the sticker reprogram my eyes and brain.

hyperchipper09

<< <i>

<< <i>I did find this on the Photograde portion of the PSA site, resources:

" PSA graders measure from the worst point of the tilt when determining centering"

Now granted, should a gem mint 10 have a tilt? Not in my book. But in PSA's book, even though that comment about tilt concerns a PSA 8 Gretzky card, they clearly leave themselves room to use those same standards regarding even PSA Gem Mint 10's. The wording sets that up perfectly " PSA graders measure from the worst point of the tilt when determining centering"
It's a built in out for PSA. Like it or not, a 10 can have a tilt, and they can explain it. >>


Thanks for looking it up. I thought I was imagining having read that in the past, but couldn't find the word 'tilt' on the Card grading standards. >>





they hide it well

LarkinCollector

That is an incredibly nice looking 1 that I wouldn't take less than PSA4-5 money for if I were trying to sell. It blows away the appearance of the 4 shown,

Smokie

This card has been discussed 4 or 5 times in here

Seller still hasn't sold it yet.

mattyc_collection

When was the Yount last up for sale? Can't find any prior discussions of it in a search.

grote15

As someone who collects sets on the set registry, I never understood why people would want to eschew eye appeal for the sake of getting the higher grade card for the GPA. We all know that there are many variances between grades in terms of condition and eye appeal. That's understandable for a grading scale based on grades 1-10. I collect PCGS graded coins, too, and coins are graded on a scale of 1-70. Forget about half grades, can you imagine if cards were subject to that same scale? I have routinely passed on higher grade cards for my registry set, if the example doesn't please me. Ostensibly, though, a 9 ought to have better eye appeal than an 8 to begin with (as a 10 should present better than a 9), as far as I'm concerned, and if I have to bide my time a bit to find the choicer card, so be it. I've been putting together the 75 mini set in PSA 8 or better for 7 years now, and unlike some, have zero interest in being the "top-ranked" set as long as I know my set is high-end in my eyes.

hyperchipper09

<< <i>As someone who collects sets on the set registry, I never understood why people would want to eschew eye appeal for the sake of getting the higher grade card for the GPA. We all know that there are many variances between grades in terms of condition and eye appeal. That's understandable for a grading scale based on grades 1-10. I collect PCGS graded coins, too, and coins are graded on a scale of 1-70. Forget about half grades, can you imagine if cards were subject to that same scale? I have routinely passed on higher grade cards for my registry set, if the example doesn't please me. Ostensibly, though, a 9 ought to have better eye appeal than an 8 to begin with (as a 10 should present better than a 9), as far as I'm concerned, and if I have to bide my time a bit to find the choicer card, so be it. I've been putting together the 75 mini set in PSA 8 or better for 7 years now, and unlike some, have zero interest in being the "top-ranked" set as long as I know my set is high-end in my eyes. >>




That's what I'm doing with the couple of registries I'm dabbling in. Barring a lottery hit I'll never complete a big registry. But, I can at least look for specific cards that appeal to me. And for me if that means a PSA 6 looks better than a PSA 9 in my eyes, so be it. And yes that can happen.

miconelegacy

I have a feeling this card will blow past 25,000. Remember the Ozzie Smith RC for 20K. This could even double that.

ThoseBackPages

"Buy the card, not the holder"


Usually easier said then done

ThoseBackPages

like some of you, when it comes to pre-war, i am all about the low graded, centered cards. it takes time to find
them, but they are out there!

it's not a Ruth, but i like it

60sfan

<< <i>As others above mention, and I am NOT saying that is the case with the original post here, it seems a common thread theme is the old, "How on earth is that a 10 thread?!"

I think we can all agree on a few things, for the eternal record:

1. The difference between the best 9s and 10s is infinitesimal, at best. Indeed there are 10s out there, hiding or masquerading in 9 holders.
2. Some 10s got very lucky on their day.
3. Some guys are blinded by the 10 sticker, and will spend "legit 10 money" on a card that would likely not get that 10 grade if cracked.
4. Then there are 10s that would 10 more than half the times submitted; these can be considered true GEM MT cards, and deserve the grade and the price commanded.
5. Some guys get angry their "10 in a 9 holder" is not graded a 10. Others understand they get serious props for having bought a GEM MT card at a fraction of the price.
6. Some guys need sticker or others' validation; other guys know their eyes are good and know what they have.
7. Once a card is in a 9 holder, all a grader needs to see upon review is ANY TINY blemish, to keep the card in its current holder. Even if a greater blemish somehow escaped the graders' eyes on another 10. This is not fair, but it's just how life goes.

Then, I think, sometimes we have good old fashioned..."TENVY."

Think of it like envy.

This can be when someone wants to hate on a 10 just because they can't reel it in.

Someone can also have a form of "inverse tenvy", when they know they paid a ton for a higher graded card, but see a lower graded one that throws it an epic beating.

Personally, I am an enormous fan of cards that inspire inverse tenvy. >>

JoeBanzai

Looks to me like the top left corner is a little "fuzzy" and back centering is pretty close to 75/25, I would have guessed the card a 9 (9.5 would be a nice option here).

When I think of a "10", I feel like no area of the card should distract visually, but here the back certainly jumped out at me as being off-center.

I GUESS it's a 10 by PSA's guidelines, but I am bothered by the back and that top left corner.

Happy seller on this card!!!!!!

LarkinCollector

<< <i>like some of you, when it comes to pre-war, i am all about the low graded, centered cards. it takes time to find
them, but they are out there!

it's not a Ruth, but i like it >>


Very nice! From those pics it almost looks like it should have the rounded corners, the wear is so even.

Dpeck100

$15,845 with just under six days to go.

grote15

Finished at 19 and change with BP. Underwhelming total but understandably so for the card in question, imo.