Brooks Robinson vs. Frank Robinson
slum22
Posts: 2,594 ✭✭✭✭
I have been looking to pick up a Frank Robinson RC on eBay. In my saved searches my search is saved as "1957 Robinson PSA", so bit Brooks and Frank Robinson cards show up. It is interesting to me that the Brooks card outsells the Frank card by a large margin. Is this because it is rarer or more condition sensitive or part of a scarcer series? Or is Brooks that much more valuable to collectors? I don't do a lot of vintage baseball so I am looking for someone here to explain this to me. It seems just based on their resumes they should at least be equal or Frank would be slightly more valuable. Any thoughts?
Steve
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Ralph
And the average and RBI's. He did win a Triple Crown. He was night and day better than Brooks offensively and had good speed. Brooks Robinson was a great defensive 3rd baseman who made a highlight reel for himself in the 1970 W.S. His defensive numbers were not any better than Ron Santo's. His offensive numbers were not really all that impressive considering the length of his career and the fact that he played a typical power hitting position. (15 HR, 76 RBI and a 267 B.A) for his career averages. But yes he is more popular with collectors than Frank.
<< <i>Frank could hit the home run. >>
MVP in both leagues is not too bad on your resume either!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
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Ralph
When Mr. Beard emceed the farewell for Brooks Robinson in 1977 at Memorial Stadium, he reminded the crowd of Reggie Jackson's remark: "If I played in New York, they'd name a candy bar after me."
He added, "Around here, nobody's named a candy bar after Brooks Robinson. We name our children after him."
<< <i>Quote from longtime Baltimore Sun sportswriter Gordon Beard
When Mr. Beard emceed the farewell for Brooks Robinson in 1977 at Memorial Stadium, he reminded the crowd of Reggie Jackson's remark: "If I played in New York, they'd name a candy bar after me."
He added, "Around here, nobody's named a candy bar after Brooks Robinson. We name our children after him." >>
and to that point, my son's middle name is Brooks
IMF
Brooks Robinson - was a GREAT player and the best 3rd baseman of all time. As a team they were one of the best all-time greatest teams. Brooks was my idol growing up and my son is named Brooks; so he was definitely respected in Baltimore while I was growing up.
Quote: "He was the best defensive player at any position. I used to stand in the outfield like a fan and watch him make play after play. I used to think WOW, I can't believe this." - Frank Robinson
One thing to remember... He just didn't have awesome plays in the '70 WS; he played the position like this throughout his career.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
The truth of the matter is that there is a bias in collecting. Always has been and probably always will be.
When players like Vada Pinson, Larry Doby, Juan Marichal, Monte Irvin, Rico Carty, Luis Tiant, Rod Carew, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Orlando Cepeda, Ferguson Jenkins, Tony Oliva and Jim Rice are tossed aside for the likes of Gaylord Perry, Al Kaline, Don Sutton, Carl Yastrzemski, Steve Garvey, Phil Niekro, Dale Murphy, Alan Trammell and others, I think that says all that needs to be said...
<< <i>Let's skip Frank and Brooks for a second and examine something else...
The truth of the matter is that there is a bias in collecting. Always has been and probably always will be.
When players like Vada Pinson, Larry Doby, Juan Marichal, Monte Irvin, Rico Carty, Luis Tiant, Rod Carew, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Orlando Cepeda, Ferguson Jenkins, Tony Oliva and Jim Rice are tossed aside for the likes of Gaylord Perry, Al Kaline, Don Sutton, Carl Yastrzemski, Steve Garvey, Phil Niekro, Dale Murphy, Alan Trammell and others, I think that says all that needs to be said... >>
With all due respect, who specifically tossed those players aside? I don't think collectors "toss aside" the 13 great players you listed for the 8 other great players that you listed. This hobby doesn't work lke that. We typically collect what appeals to us for the love and enjoyment of the hobby. The largest group of collectors tend to collect in sets, and in this manner we embrace all types of players who comprise the set and build up an appreciation for them. That's the beauty of sports.
<< <i>
<< <i>Let's skip Frank and Brooks for a second and examine something else...
The truth of the matter is that there is a bias in collecting. Always has been and probably always will be.
When players like Vada Pinson, Larry Doby, Juan Marichal, Monte Irvin, Rico Carty, Luis Tiant, Rod Carew, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Orlando Cepeda, Ferguson Jenkins, Tony Oliva and Jim Rice are tossed aside for the likes of Gaylord Perry, Al Kaline, Don Sutton, Carl Yastrzemski, Steve Garvey, Phil Niekro, Dale Murphy, Alan Trammell and others, I think that says all that needs to be said... >>
With all due respect, who specifically tossed those players aside? I don't think collectors "toss aside" the 13 great players you listed for the 8 other great players that you listed. This hobby doesn't work lke that. We typically collect what appeals to us for the love and enjoyment of the hobby. The largest group of collectors tend to collect in sets, and in this manner we embrace all types of players who comprise the set and build up an appreciation for them. That's the beauty of sports. >>
Aside from their rookie cards, I'll stand by the fact that I see more of the players at the end of the list purchased than the players at the beginning of the list. However, if you put their careers side-by-side, I think the former list outperformed the latter.
I don't disagree with the fact that people collect what appeals to them, but if we're talking about desirability based upon performance, then there is a segment that is vastly underrated and I still contend that is because of bias.
Additionally, I believe that vintage football is largely ignored because the NFL does NOTHING to promote the history of the game. Baseball has ALWAYS referred to the past. The legends of the game have been turned into American icons. Into movies. Countless numbers of books have been written about them. But with football now being the number one sport with respect to television viewers (just check the ratings of the top shows every year and the NFL holds more than 90% of the Top 20), there is no reason that the past is an afterthought. Football was played BEFORE the 1958 Championship Game and before Namath led the Jets to a championship in Super Bowl III, but you'd never know it from the promotion of the game by the NFL.
If starting my own team, I would take Schmidt 7 days a week and twice on Sundays(unless of course one of those 1970 W.S. games was on a Sunday) over Robinson. Schmidt has a trophy case full of Gold Glove Awards also in addition to all the HR titles, RBI titles and a couple of MVP's for good measure. There are shortstops and 2nd baseman that have better career power/hitting numbers than Brooks Robinson, and they didn't play for 23 years.
He was a consistently great defensive player and a very slightly above average hitter for most of his career. He was catapulted to super stardom during the 69/70 W.S. That is where much of his legend was born.
It would be like a QB with a couple of great seasons who happened to QB his team to one of the most significant wins, not only in Super Bowl History but in NFL History period ---- then simply becoming a bigger legend than his overall career numbers would indicate. I am not saying this NFL quarterback had the sustained consistency of Brooks. I'm just saying that much of the legendary status they have attained can be attributed to very brief periods of their entire careers.
Here is my favorite Frank Robinson item. It's his game used California Angels batting helmet from his last season there in 1974:
[URL=http://s88.photobucket.com/user/whhp72/media/Game Used/febbaseball019.jpg.html]
IMF
<< <i>Remember the Miller Lite commercial. Someone asks if they are brothers. One of them says "Obviously no, I'm at least a couple inches taller than him." >>
Linky
<< <i>Never thought of the washing machine as a display vehicle... Awesome piece, nonetheless!
yeah, the white made a nice backdrop
LOL
IMF
Read this article on the GREAT Adrian Beltre
He doesn't get the due he's deserved and is already the 6th best 3rd Baseman of all time with probably 3-4 more years of really good production. And part of it is the Rangers are his 4th team. But compare his career totals to other 3B's. He's a Hall of Famer.
What I'm selling
Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
<< <i>Somewhat to otwcards earlier point, and while he didn't say it specifically race does play a factor. >>
I don't think it is so much race as it is bias. The other players were heavily marketed by their respective teams and subsequently by either broadcasting or their association with MLB. If it were about race, then Barry Bonds, Miguel Cabrera, Vladimir Guerrero, Hank Aaron, Ichiro Suzuki, Roberto Clemente, Kirk Gibson, Prince Fielder, Matt Kemp and others that have significant followings wouldn't perform as well as their counterparts. However, the bias seems to limit the volume of Black and Latino players that are at the forefront of the collecting world. It certainly seems like it is easier to sell a player like Mike Trout or Paul Goldschmidt versus Andrew McCutchen or Prince Fielder.
"Brooks Robinson belongs in a higher league." - Pete Rose.
<< <i>Brooks Robinson - was a GREAT player and the best 3rd baseman of all time.
If starting my own team, I would take Schmidt 7 days a week and twice on Sundays(unless of course one of those 1970 W.S. games was on a Sunday) over Robinson. Schmidt has a trophy case full of Gold Glove Awards also in addition to all the HR titles, RBI titles and a couple of MVP's for good measure. There are shortstops and 2nd baseman that have better career power/hitting numbers than Brooks Robinson, and they didn't play for 23 years.
He was a consistently great defensive player and a very slightly above average hitter for most of his career. He was catapulted to super stardom during the 69/70 W.S. That is where much of his legend was born.
It would be like a QB with a couple of great seasons who happened to QB his team to one of the most significant wins, not only in Super Bowl History but in NFL History period ---- then simply becoming a bigger legend than his overall career numbers would indicate. I am not saying this NFL quarterback had the sustained consistency of Brooks. I'm just saying that much of the legendary status they have attained can be attributed to very brief periods of their entire careers. >>
You mention Mike Schmidt. Read on internet news today he is recovering from a melanoma skin cancer condition. Won't be in spring training this year as an advisor. Hopes to make it back next year.
<< <i>
<< <i>Remember the Miller Lite commercial. Someone asks if they are brothers. One of them says "Obviously no, I'm at least a couple inches taller than him." >>
Linky >>
Thats fun good natured humor from a pair of great players.
I never really thought about it like Scott mentioned, because of Vintage greats like Mays, Aaron, Clemente, Banks ect.. I dont think they take a backseat to White players. Do they? Im not really sure
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Remember the Miller Lite commercial. Someone asks if they are brothers. One of them says "Obviously no, I'm at least a couple inches taller than him." >>
Linky >>
Thats fun good natured humor from a pair of great players.
I never really thought about it like Scott mentioned, because of Vintage greats like Mays, Aaron, Clemente, Banks ect.. I dont think they take a backseat to White players. Do they? Im not really sure >>
Maybe not the backseat but I would say a lot of white players were given the front seat.
Another factor in the Frank vs Brooks situation is that in person Frank was kind of aloof and rarely interacted with fans, and on the field he was all business. Brooks on the other hand, was probably the nicest athlete I have ever met. He would sign autographs all day, interact with fans (especially kids) and was a genuinely nice person.
Growing up in Oakland, Frank Robinson was someone anyone who played baseball looked up to. As a white/asian baseball-crazy kid I certainly did.
As a set collector I sought any card of either of them that Topps put out
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Based on what evidence? Brooks' range factor per 9 is not as good as Schmidt's, as compared to the league average. I am not saying you are wrong (actually I am re "far" inferior), but I am not going to accept it just because you say so.