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The ever-shrinking "sweet spot"

The stuff I really like, I can't afford.

The stuff I can afford doesn't really excite me.

Somewhere in the middle is that "sweet spot", wherein may be found the coins than I both like AND can afford.

I find as I get older and more experienced (and no doubt more jaded), that sweet spot is getting narrower and narrower.

It used to be I could browse a site like VCoins and fill my wish list up within a few pages, then have to go back several times to narrow down the choices.

Tonight I've been going through everything on the VCoins mall (yes, everything- I'm 61 pages into my browsing so far, with 100 coins per page.)

I think I've put five or six coins in the wishlist. Out of more than 6,000.

And that's with an eclectic, "almost anything goes", "buy what I like" approach. No specialization. Searching World, Ancient, USA, all of it.

Maybe I am becoming more discriminating.

Maybe that isn't such a bad thing. (Even if it is a little frustrating at times.)

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Comments

  • bronzematbronzemat Posts: 2,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't blame ya, I am getting more and more selective when it comes to some ancients in general. I am getting pickier. I dont pay attention to u.s. coins and world coins I just tend to buy what catches my eye, even if it's got problems.

    But I am on VC this second too, looking around and nothings grabbing me.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm now 81 pages into my browsing.

    I have added a fair amount of stuff now to the wishlist if not the cart. But not really for my collection. I've still only found maybe a half-dozen contenders as potential "keepers" for myself. The other dozen or so are things that I thought were attractive and quite affordable, which might be good to flip on BST later.

    Mostly from Coin Kingdom LLC, oddly enough.

    I've bought from them before. They've got some cool inventory that won't break the bank. I might keep some of this cheaper stuff in the wishlist for one day when I'm near-broke and just need something fun to keep me interested.

    But as far as "serious" additions ("serious" for my budget meaning $200-500), I only have a small handful of contenders to research.

    I do think I'm gonna pull the trigger on a $150 German States piece. It's relatively common, but a pretty example.

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  • IosephusIosephus Posts: 872 ✭✭✭
    Being more discriminating is definitely good. I too, lately, have tried to become more selective, often saving up more for a nicer medal and passing on more affordable pieces. While my collection certainly grows more slowly in terms of size due to this, I have a greater satisfaction when I look it over, and hope that most of them will remain keepers down the road.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe I am becoming more discriminating.

    Maybe that isn't such a bad thing. (Even if it is a little frustrating at times.) >>



    I actually think becoming more discriminating may be a good sign, but it's definitely a different approach to collecting that takes getting used to.
  • STLNATSSTLNATS Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭
    You know, sometimes it's hard. I'm at a point where I'm focused, reasonably discriminating and the stuff I like/want generally isn't THAT expensive, just hard to find. But I'm still a sucker for "junk boxes" and on my dresser is a small stack of post WWII French AL and Ni coins that I just couldn't seem to pass up. I like the darned things and just know that the next chance I get I'll probably buy some more. Maybe it's just that inner child rebelling at my typically disciplined/analytical approach; at least it doesn't cost much to let him out to play.

    image
    Always interested in St Louis MO & IL metro area and Evansville IN national bank notes and Vatican/papal states coins and medals!
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    I know the feeling, too. Just last night, in fact, I spent over an hour browsing listings. Unsuccessfully. Closed the laptop and went to bed wondering why I had even bothered.

    I love the coins I have, and the ones I'm missing are elusive. My cure for this dilemma is stacking (PMs), but I can't do that because I just stacked a couple weeks ago. I'm stuck in limbo. Luckily ...

    THERE'S A REALLY BIG SHOW IN ATLANTA THIS WEEK. MAYBE YOU SHOULD DRIVE TO ATLANTA AND WALK THE BOURSE imageimageimageimage
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  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wish I could do Hotlanta. Another time, perhaps. I haven't done a show in six-plus years, since the 2007 ANA there.

    Wifh me dropping all formal framework of collecting "sets" and adopting the "eclectic box of 20" approach, you would think it would expand my possibilities. In many ways it has, but with my random collection now being limited to 20 coins, it does force a bit more focus on quality and/or scarcity.

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  • $200-$500 per item is a good area to be in, I'm right there with you but I think there's a ton of fun material at that level

    with vcoins, forvm, cng, heritage, ebay and the plethora of dealer sites I have no shortage of cool stuff to browse and wish for


    all that said I'm exactly where you are with paper money, I've worked with PCGS Currency in some fashion since 2008 and between that and the work I'm doing in the Smithsonian I've handled virtually everything in the US catalog (Friedberg) and for the stuff I'd like I've handled many many many pieces that are miles nicer than anything I could ever dream of affording, quite burnt out on collecting paper money aside from the occasional hometown national
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  • CIVITASCIVITAS Posts: 2,256 ✭✭✭
    I'm kind of having the same problem as a dealer. I'm working on our next website update, and I'm having a real hard time finding a good number of exciting ancient coins to put up. I've got a few, but it was a struggle just to find those. Fortunately, (or unfortunately, depending on perspective) it's been so long since Ben prepared any medieval coins for the site, that we've managed to get a nice little group of those together to compensate for the limited selection of ancients.

    I'm finding that the better material keeps on selling, which might be part of your problem, LordM. Once we send out our newsletter alerting people to the new material on our website, it tends to disappear pretty quickly. A lot of it never makes it to our Vcoins store. This might be the same for other dealers with their own websites. This is not to say that you can't find good coins on Vcoins, because you can. It's just if your target area has narrowed, any attrition from the pool of available material can quickly compound the frustration of not finding those "sweet spot" coins.

    I am surprised sometimes though. I just sold a really handsome Aemilian last week which took almost a year to sell. I thought it would be gone in a week. So, it's hit and miss. I don't know what your budget is, but overall it seems the sweet spot for our ancient sales falls in the $50-$500 range. Interesting material in that price range seems to go away very readily. If it's a really neat or popular piece, you can stretch that range to $1000. Once you get over that, it seems interest dies off pretty quick, for us at least. I think people tend to look to the auction circuit more at that price level and are more patient buyers.
    image
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    New coins listed monthly!

    Josh Moran

    CIVITAS Galleries, Ltd.
  • Funny you should mention this. I was on VCoins last weekend for the first time in about two years. I looked through about 800+ Roman republican coins for a "special" example. Well, of the 800+ I found two I actually liked. That in itself was fine, but the prices seemed too high so I didn't decide on one. It's getting harder to come together on a nice coin and the right price. There are coins I'd jump on in a minute if I found them, but those are the "gotta haves" and not just something I'm on the fence about.

    So yeah, I think it's a combination of having collected for a while and knowing what to pay, what I still want to attain, and knowing I should be holding out for that "special" example.
  • PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭
    Same with me. I think a lot of it has to do with that feeling of having "seen it all before".

    I don't browse all of Vcoins very often. There are a few dealer sites on there I do visit specifically once in a while. But as has been said, a lot of the good stuff doesn't ever make it online. Thankfully two of the dealers will be in town this upcoming weekend for the big, biannual local show. I have one piece on hold with one of them with a simply amazing portrait.
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  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think this is true across the board. For example, there's a stunning EID MAR coming up (see the homepage of Goldberg's site) but it would require me to sit out on for a while, missing out on many auctions. Yes, I would love it, but it's too much to tie up in one EID MAR at the moment as the market has been on fire with super-high prices for what is a "relatively" common, but massively desired coin.

    I've recently built a long-term wantlist, prioritized according to the likelihood of finding an example. This has helped stop impulse buying and save up funds for more significant purchases. There are many types I would love to acquire but I'm controlling myself better now to wait for a great example rather than the next one to come up that looks halfway decent.
    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Josh- I did wantlist two or three from your store. image

    There's a Monaco pattern that really turned my head.

    PS- I am mostly shopping world coins rather than ancients right now, because my so-called "eclectic" Box of 20 is not yet terribly eclectic. It's rather ancient-heavy, and Roman-heavy in particular. Not surprising, since I folded most of my remaining Twelve Caesars remnants into it.

    So I need some slightly more "modern" stuff to mix it up a bit, and yes, I need a few Liteside pieces because it's all Darkside at present.

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  • AethelredAethelred Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭
    I can understand where the OP is coming from, but I think the issue may be a matter of too much to pick from, new material all the time and being able to shop for it 24/7.

    But I look at it like this: Any ancient coin, without regard to the grade or eye appeal is an amazing object that should fill the person beholding it with wonder. You are holding in your hand an object that has crossed the ages, that was once in the hand of someone who died 100 generations ago. They transport you back to the the era in which they were made, they allow you to do something most people never do, to own a small fragment of ancient Greece or Rome.
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  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    Gentlemen - and gentle ladies,

    We coin connoisseurs experience an innate hesitance when buying that is not dissimilar to what some feel at the alter (I have heard; according to Hollywood and grape vines). It goes something like this:

    But how do I know this is the perfect coin? It's great, sure, but there are many more fish in the sea. Perhaps a better one will come along!

    The reason is because we are aware of the [large, usually] mintages and plethora of sellers/dealers/auctions/conventions. We think "oh, there's probably a better one out there for a better price" and so we continue to wait. And wait. And wait.

    Sometimes you know you've got a winner and simply need to double down. If you see a coin you like - after viewing 800 listings - and the price isn't crazy moon pricing, buy it. Enjoy it. When a better example comes along, sell and upgrade. Or enjoy both together.

    Of course this advice does not pertain to the marriage analogy imageimage
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  • rec78rec78 Posts: 5,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I find this true in almost all areas of life, not just collecting. In the beginning you just want to get something, almost anything will do. I have had the same experience in everything that I tried to collect over the years: baseball cards, coins, records, radios, etc. Collecting is a continual learning experience, as you become more educated (and influenced by others opinions), you become more selective. It is a natural process. Even like say "eating out". You try a lot of different restaurants and then settle down to just a few or even just one favorite place(s).
    You may get to the point where nothing seems buyable for a long time. You are looking for that one special coin that you cannot find and give up for a while. So you go another way, into a new area and the process begins anew.
    image
  • SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,135 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Josh- I did wantlist two or three from your store. image

    There's a Monaco pattern that really turned my head.

    PS- I am mostly shopping world coins rather than ancients right now, because my so-called "eclectic" Box of 20 is not yet terribly eclectic. It's rather ancient-heavy, and Roman-heavy in particular. Not surprising, since I folded most of my remaining Twelve Caesars remnants into it.

    So I need some slightly more "modern" stuff to mix it up a bit, and yes, I need a few Liteside pieces because it's all Darkside at present. >>



    Have you considered a "one-per-century" collection? That would give you more diversity still with some direction to avoid looking at everything all the time. I've found that without a plan, having to look at everything makes buying anything tough.
    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Have you considered a "one-per-century" collection? That would give you more diversity still with some direction to avoid looking at everything all the time. I've found that without a plan, having to look at everything makes buying anything tough. >>

    "One per century" is a very neat idea, actually.

    Just not for me, not with a "box of 20" set, because I'm already back to the fourth or fifth century BC. And there are a few centuries in the so-called
    Dark Ages" I don't care much for- wherein most of the coins are very crude and ugly and also very expensive.

    It is taking some getting used to, this "look at everything" approach. But I'm also finding it liberating. No sets, no structure. Just buy what I like. There will be some mistakes, I'm sure, and it does make the quest a bit of a headache, but I am enjoying it so far, and I'm free to play with some of the areas I never did before, because they didn't fit the preconceived notions of whatever "sets" I was working on at the time.

    You'd think I'd be a lot less picky after throwing all the parameters out the window, but with "box of 20" being my only limitation, it has forced me to think more about quality and eye appeal.

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  • AethelredAethelred Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭
    I have thought about this "Box of Twenty" concept and talked about it a bit with Savoyspecial.

    The idea that I had was to do a "Box of Twenty" set, but select the coins in a way that you tell the "Story of Coinage" from ancient times to modern in 20 coins.

    You would need one of the first coins from Lydia, A nice Greek Tetradrachm, maybe a Roman Sestertius, I would allow about 6-7 ancient coins. Then a medieval English Penny, a medieval Islamic coin, one from China. Again maybe 6-7 medieval coins. The balance would be modern, a German Thaler, something from the French Revolution and Africa and Asia would need a example. I would not have more than 2 US coins and one of those would be colonial.
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  • BurksBurks Posts: 1,103
    Coin collecting was put on the back burner for me for the past four years while I was finishing school/starting my career. Granted I don't have any more money now then I did before, I'm TRYING to get back into it.

    I'm finding the prices are outrageous compared to when I left. Granted I do have a soft spot for silver in my heart, which is part of the issue, but even copper coins are nuts. It just seems everything has increased a huge amount.

    This leads me to limit my spending to an even smaller portion of coins. I don't have $200+ a month to blow on coins, so you see my budget is pretty strapped (even though everyone thinks RN's make money hand over fist). Haven't bought a coin in nearly four years! But at least I'm making an attempt.

    I've basically given up on US coins. Either I'm down to the key dates ($500+ coins) or I just can't find examples I'm comfortable paying X amount for without sacrificing a LOT of quality (Morgans).

    Maybe one day I'll hit the lotto..........or I'll get that NP degree......
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  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have thought about this "Box of Twenty" concept and talked about it a bit with Savoyspecial.

    The idea that I had was to do a "Box of Twenty" set, but select the coins in a way that you tell the "Story of Coinage" from ancient times to modern in 20 coins.

    You would need one of the first coins from Lydia, A nice Greek Tetradrachm, maybe a Roman Sestertius, I would allow about 6-7 ancient coins. Then a medieval English Penny, a medieval Islamic coin, one from China. Again maybe 6-7 medieval coins. The balance would be modern, a German Thaler, something from the French Revolution and Africa and Asia would need a example. I would not have more than 2 US coins and one of those would be colonial. >>



    I think the Box of 20 idea is nice because it provides focus and allows one put more resources behind fewer, more meaningful pieces - or at least that's the intention.
  • nicholasz219nicholasz219 Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭
    I agree with Burks. Being a youngish guy making a decent salary plus having a kid, you really learn what your budget it when you go to coin shows for example. Dealers there have significant overhead so they are bringing a) higher priced stuff that they hope they sell a lot of to cover their costs and turn a profit and b) some lower end stuff for regular non rich collectors. The problem being that there are a lot of us lower to mid range collectors out there and with the magic of the internet not only are there almost infinite options for buying coins from the Bay to Heritage to individual dealer websites/emails but also VCoins and still shows and what not but also a plethora of information too in books, websites dedicated to formerly obscure areas of collecting and people on much tighter budgets.

    I had the same issue as Burks with Russian Imperial. I bought a set of a about 200 Imperial coins, mostly copper and minor silver 20 years ago that formed the nucleus of my collection. Then I didn't do anything with it for about 10 years as I went to college, got married, had my daughter, got divorced and started over. As I hit my late twenties Ebay became a place to spend $10 a week on common dates and try to fill holes. Then I got involved with another girl and spent a few years on the sidelines again. Then when I came back, EVERYTHING was insane. And the more I thought about it, the more the above issues applied. Common copper issues were selling for $15 per coin and silver for more. It becomes a combination of many people trying to be smart about spending their money and a limited pool of material being sold by dealers who are also now smarter as well without necessarily under the constraints of a limited showroom space where they are more inclined to sell things at a discount to make room for new inventory.

    This is why I don't always have ground breaking new pieces to show, but when I do win some auctions or make purchases from websites or dealers, I try to be cognizant of the prices I am paying and that they are not too out of line for what the pieces are probably worth realistically and to just be happy with what I have managed to add to the collection. I bounce from Russian to Roman to English pennies and having several sets of things that all have affordable pieces out there still allows me to stay within budget and still get the thrill of waiting for my mail for something besides bills. I figure too if I could find joy in collecting coins out of rolls when that was all I could afford when I was a kid (and when I was married too, lol) then I should be able to find joy in my $20 coins too. If I ever lose that feeling then it is time to sell and do something different with my time.
  • lordmarcovanlordmarcovan Posts: 43,194 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I have thought about this "Box of Twenty" concept and talked about it a bit with Savoyspecial.

    The idea that I had was to do a "Box of Twenty" set, but select the coins in a way that you tell the "Story of Coinage" from ancient times to modern in 20 coins.

    You would need one of the first coins from Lydia, A nice Greek Tetradrachm, maybe a Roman Sestertius, I would allow about 6-7 ancient coins. Then a medieval English Penny, a medieval Islamic coin, one from China. Again maybe 6-7 medieval coins. The balance would be modern, a German Thaler, something from the French Revolution and Africa and Asia would need a example. I would not have more than 2 US coins and one of those would be colonial. >>

    This is sort of what I plan on doing, eventually. It won't be so structured as that, but I'll definitely be trying "hit the high spots" of most of the major historical periods, from the archaic beginnings on up to the modern stuff. Some US included, but mostly Darkside.

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  • mnemtsas2mnemtsas2 Posts: 745 ✭✭✭
    The surge in the market down here in Australia for quality PCGS graded coins has effectively pushed me out of the "already graded" Australian coin market. My "sweet spot" is such that I have to find my gems raw and unappreciated (and hopefully) undervalued. It's slowed down the growth of my Australian collection but means when I do add a piece it tends to be quality. Because I am spending so slowly on the core of my collection I've branched out into world coins a lot more. These tend to be cheap and cheerful and more designed to keep me enthused in the hobby rather than having any particular goal other than to be interesting. I know by doing this I am breaking the "you're better off having 1x$1000 coin than 10x$100 coins rule" but hey, it's fun and it keeps me off the streets image
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  • WildIdeaWildIdea Posts: 1,872 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I feel the same way. I like the term sweet spot. Although it seems harder to zero in on coins reasonable to afford as well as have mass interest, it is still fun for me to search and hunt and stay involved with the hobby. To me it's actually more fun now to have the initial fire quenched a bit and a majority of my questions answered, I guess a real overall understanding of the hobby and what it is I'm actually looking at. That slams a wallet shut and the mind open, not the other way around. When I actually do buy a coin, it's usually with little stress or doubt and an enjoyable experience. It's fun to buy coins but when the dust settles it's good to know if you actually are in it right. These type of deals don't happen without considerable effort.
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