newp - Papal States 1675 piastra - "holy door"

worldcoinguy

Neat design that just arrived today - a 1675 Papal States piastra (scudo of 80 bolognia). I have always admired this design and was thrilled to get my hands on it (thanks also to Zohar for the help finding it). The obverse features pope Clement X and the reverse depicts the Holy Door (Porta Sancta) located in St Peters cathedral at the Vatican. Classified as DAV-4079. NGC AU-55.



Background on the Holy Door

The door is the Northern most entrance at St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, and it is only opened every 25 years. I believe that it is bricked up in non-Jubilee years, so I am guessing that the bricked doorway depicted on the reverse in 1675 is from the perspective inside the door looking outward, or perhaps the details of the door frame have been altered in the last 339 years. Anybody know?

brg5658

The door is sealed over from the inside. The last time I was there (in 2010) it wasn't bricks, but a type of almost adobe or plaster. There's a decent image of the inside of the door on Wikipedia at this link.

Great looking coin!

STLNATS

Nice coin. Congrats.

The bronze panels were added in 1949 in anticipation of the 1950 celebration (I think). They replaced the previous wooden doors covering the brick wall inside.

worldcoinguy

Thanks guys - the images makes more sense now. I visited St Peters once when I was 15 years old but I recall being overwhelmed by the scale and history of the cathedral. Given what I know now, I would love to spend time soaking in all the details.

EVillageProwler

OMG - I love these Papal States coins. Their designs are superb, and the accompanying history forms one of the bedrocks of Western Civilization.

One really nice thing about these ChAU coins is that it's often hard to tell from a low MS coin. The relief is usually TOO high, and thus at least slightly weakly struck. And, given their age, it's also not unexpected for them to have impaired or muted luster. So, from an AU55 to MS62, the difference in price tag is much greater than their eye appeal. But even beyond the commercial aspects, my final word on this coin (in this post, at least) is this:



EVP

Iosephus

Very nice piastra!

JCMhouston

Very cool piece.

Flatwoods

Very nice piece. Congratulations on acquiring it.

LochNESS

80 Bolognia? Man, that's a lot of boloney

Definitely a cool coin, no doubt. But I feel like there's too many key, identifying features [of the real doorway] missing from the design. I guess they did the best they could with 1675 engraving technology?

STLNATS

But I feel like there's too many key, identifying features [of the real doorway] missing from the design. I guess they did the best they could with 1675 engraving technology?

Steps, columns, etc are all there. The plaque over the door and the panels are all 20th century so wonder what is missing. Impressionistic of course and some artistic license (eg maybe shortening the height of the door opening to balance out the design of the coin) but I'm sure that there were some changes in details between 1675 and today. Also, it was important to show the bricked up door to indicate its closure/end of the jubilee year so no covering door was indicated. Certainly many contemporary medals and coins are very detailed so there was clearly no lack of engraving technology nor ability.

worldcoinguy

I did some google searches and I don't see any representations of the door in paintings or sketches from the time. I was curious to see if the reverse carried any resemblance to the actual design. I did, however, find a few other representations of the door on medals and other coins through the years. I am sure the list could be exhaustive if you would spend more than 10 minutes searching.


1575


medal 1575


1600


1600


scudo d'oro 1625


medal 1625


medal 1650


medal 1650


testone 1700


testone 1700


piastra 1700


medal 1725


zecchino 1725


medal 1900

LochNESS

STLNATS, I think the wide variety of depictions in worldcoinguy's post are enough proof that just because it has 'steps, columns, etc.' doesn't mean it looks like the door in question. Also, I was unaware the plaque over the door and panels are all 20th century. I thought perhaps they were 17th century or older. But even without the plaque and panels, I dunno it just seems slightly off in the details. The tops of the columns don't match and it shows four even though the photograph shows only two. Little details.


<< <i>but I'm sure that there were some changes in details between 1675 and today. >>

This makes the most sense to me, and something I had not considered but certainly possible. I just thought they'd have left it alone and not changed a thing. But if the plaque is new, then who knows how many times they replaced the steps and/or repaired the columns.

STLNATS

Part of the issue is that the photo is focused on the door itself and not the surrounding area. Most importantly it omits the pediment as well as the other architectural details at either side so its difficult to make a direct comparison. But more importantly, it was the intent of the designers to interpret and present what they thought were the most significant details in the context of the holy year and not be too concerned to be boringly precise and depict all of the fretwork. Certainly the most accurate in terms of details is the 1975 private issue; but like a lot of more recent designs it's arguably the most clumsily executed and uninspired design of the coins and medals worldcoinguy shared. As a sidebar it's also interesting to see how the pediment was depicted over the years, and was even treated two different ways on the 1700 testoni (semicircular vs triangular) since it really wasn't that important to what was being presented. Some of the greatest Vatican/papal designers/mintmasters (St Urbain, the Hamerani, etc) were active during this period (roughly 1650 to the early 1700s) and produced many. many, many designs that rarely been equaled since.

STLNATS

Two other thoughts: work continued on St Peter's well into the 17th century and I suspect tinkering has gone on ever since. Secondly, there are actually 4 holy doors in Rome, one in each major basilica and each is opened at the start of the Jubilee year. Some of the earlier medals are specific to basilica other than St Peter's. It's common today to assume that the holy door is specific to St Peter's and that is the one that is in fact increasingly depicted on the designs of medals and coins during the last couple of centuries. But earlier issues probably reflected more the idea or concept behind the door rather than than a specific location and this would explain in part the variation in designs.

worldcoinguy

STLNATS - Thanks much for the background. I did not realize that there were other basilicas that were also featured in the Jubilee year issues - very interesting. I figured that the St Peters door had been modified over the years, and it also makes sense that the designer for the die took some liberties on the piastra design. This is all fascinating detail - I think I will do some more reading and digging to see what I find.

LochNESS

Yes, I agree with worldcoinguy those are very interesting and probable explanations. I too was unaware that there was/is more than one "holy door." That would certainly explain the variety of representations.

I certainly respect the artistic license - and actually prefer it in other disciplines [of art]. However, in coins [and medals] I'm used to seeing accuracy above abstract. I am thinking of works like the Wiener cathedrals which are painstakingly detailed. And when I look at the millenia-old portraits on ancients, I enjoy thinking so that's what they looked like.

STLNATS

However, in coins [and medals] I'm used to seeing accuracy above abstract.

I suppose that's what people said about the impressionists too. It's just a different way of looking at the world and portraying an idea.

BTW, some of the portraits of the period are breathtaking, and equal or exceed anything before or since.

nicholasz219

Fascinating! As a Catholic, I was not even aware of the actual doors, much less the medals. Thank you for the post! Great medal!