Hypocrite congressman threatens NFL over use of term Redskin
edmundfitzgerald
Posts: 4,306 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
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"The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people. Choctaw Chief Allen Wright suggested the name in 1866 during treaty negotiations with the federal government regarding the use of Indian Territory, in which he envisioned an all-Indian state controlled by the United States Superintendent of Indian Affairs. Equivalent to the English word Indian, okla humma was a phrase in the Choctaw language used to describe the Native American race as a whole. Oklahoma later became the de facto name for Oklahoma Territory, and it was officially approved in 1890, two years after the area was opened to white settlers."
And Axtell, you owe me an apology...you got guys putting Ichiro in the same company as Ty Cobb as a hitter...and another guy calling him "The Best" hitter. I would say that qualifies as the most overrated hitter of all-time! lol.
Rating a guy about 400 spots too high will be hard to beat for any other overrated hitter! LOL.
But time to get this back onto sports talk. The political talk is done...and this topic is political.
<< <i>We have enough of these threads.
And Axtell, you owe me an apology...you got guys putting Ichiro in the same company as Ty Cobb as a hitter...and another guy calling him "The Best" hitter. I would say that qualifies as the most overrated hitter of all-time! lol. >>
No, you did that, in calling him the most overrated hitter of all time. I never said he was the same as those guys.0
<< <i>
But time to get this back onto sports talk. The political talk is done...and this topic is political. >>
Fitz can't help himself. He can't hide his true racist feelings about Native Americans.
You don't help matters much yourself.
You should have never chimed in on this topic, because you have a horrible reputation as a person with double standards, and as a result, you made it more difficult for people to take your side seriously.
You should have just let wrestlingcardking do his work. Every time you posted after him, you derailed good points, and brought on doubt because it was you who was saying it!
<< <i>Axtell,
You don't help matters much yourself.
You should have never chimed in on this topic, because you have a horrible reputation as a person with double standards, and as a result, you made it more difficult for people to take your side seriously.
You should have just let wrestlingcardking do his work. Every time you posted after him, you derailed good points, and brought on doubt because it was you who was saying it! >>
Frankly I couldn't care less what you think. And you derailed the Houston Astros thread I posted so you're in NO position to talk etiquette.
You have a history of changing your stances and points based on if it suits your hero, or hurt somebody else you don't like.
You also turn a blind eye to objective obviousness when it comes to your heroes as well...but again, have no problem using objectiveness when it suits your stance.
When you have a history such as that, it will taint any stance you take...and you took a stance on this. Should have let wrestlingcardking do his thing, instead of poisoning the topic.
You are like Mush from the movie Bronx Tale.
Hypocrite.
I have no problem admitting I derailed this thread, and I'm not claiming you derail threads, or care if you derail a thread...so your hypocrite point doesn't work. Nice try.
You are trying your spin tactics. Sorry, won't work. This below still stands:
I'm not talking etiquette.
You have a history of changing your stances and points based on if it suits your hero, or hurt somebody else you don't like.
You also turn a blind eye to objective obviousness when it comes to your heroes as well...but again, have no problem using objectiveness when it suits your stance.
When you have a history such as that, it will taint any stance you take...and you took a stance on this. Should have let wrestlingcardking do his thing, instead of poisoning the topic.
You are like Mush from the movie Bronx Tale.
I'm not following you around...you just provide a lot of obvious double talk, and it falls right in my lap, so it is like shooting ducks out of the air.
Where is that math problem you were supposed to do with regards to our post counts? LOL, you have so much material to provide for me.
The sports board is more lively though...kind of like the WWE around here.
Imagine Brian ( Axtell ) , what would make the world a better place , a name change or ANY of the issues above ? I'm the type of person that know there is a difference between a person that has an idea and a person that has an answer . In the world of the intellectually diverse , it must be a great accomplishment to think renaming a football team will make the world a better place , while unemployment , destroyed families , drug and alcohol addiction , cultural rot , goes unaddressed .
Brian , it must take a lot of compassion on your part to take a stand on this issue and then by your very actions show you don't really give a crap about the issues that could REALLY make a difference in the Naive American's lives . Wave your " Pretend I care " pom-pom as much as you want or need . To yourself , it must make you a REALLY swell person !!!! Your mother must be very proud of you .---- Sonny
"While his own state's name (OKLAHOMA) means red people in Choctaw."
1985fan's response...
" Nice try, racist scum. Here's the real origin:
"The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people..."
LOL.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>OP stated:
"While his own state's name (OKLAHOMA) means red people in Choctaw."
1985fan's response...
" Nice try, racist scum. Here's the real origin:
"The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people..."
LOL. >>
This is the funniest thing I have read today. Thank you for that
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
<< <i>OP stated:
"While his own state's name (OKLAHOMA) means red people in Choctaw."
1985fan's response...
" Nice try, racist scum. Here's the real origin:
"The name Oklahoma comes from the Choctaw phrase okla humma, literally meaning red people..."
LOL. >>
In the moral culture that strives to imbrace Diversity , one must realize that this also must includes " Intellectual Diversity ". As Lewis Carroll wrote in Alice In Wonderland , " They all must be winners , they all must have prizes ". ----- Sonny
okla humma means red people ?
and the head of the Choctaw Indians wanted an entire state named Red People ?
Is this correct ?
However, I mentioned this before...the point about the state name is really a good point for the Washington Redskins side of the debate. I would find it difficult to tell a team to change their name from Redskins, if I represented a state that had a name that also means Red Skins.
Wrestlingcardking, you brought up hundreds of great points, and I agreed with almost all of them. But the one point about the state name, that it has assimilated as a part of our culture and isn't offensive, I don't think that is a strong of a defense. One could say that the football team is also assimilated then too. That would be separate than the disparaging mascots.
I think it is a point that has to be chalked up to the Washington Redskins side.
THe dialogue on the subject is a good start...and eventually a satisfactory resolution will come to pass.
Yeah, I said this was a political topic...and it didn't belong here...but Ichiro and Arod can get old sometimes too.
<< <i>
Wrestlingcardking, you brought up hundreds of great points, and I agreed with almost all of them. But the one point about the state name, that it has assimilated as a part of our culture and isn't offensive, I don't think that is a strong of a defense. One could say that the football team is also assimilated then too. That would be separate than the disparaging mascots.
I think it is a point that has to be chalked up to the Washington Redskins side.
. >>
I doubt we'll hear any more from the guy who would enjoy tossing someone around a steal cage while others watch in glee.
Now that he knows that the head of the Choctaw named an entire state Red People, he really doesn't have anything left to
fall on.
What that proves is that the entire Indian race from years ago had no problem with a state of the union being called Red People.
Fact of the matter is that he and his side-kick 1985fan need to take their trolling to some other subject area from now on.
Shall we say.....
Check mate ?
Game, set, and match ?
or perhaps
Submission hold
I believe since that is the most offensive part, that it may end up striking a happy medium by removing the most offensive aspects, and end up keeping the team name(less offensive and similar to the state). That is kind of what wrestlingcardking alluded to as well.
He and the Sports Card Forum members could sit around and laugh and enjoy what ABDULLAH is doing to this guy.
Have a great snow day ------- Sonny
<< <i>I still believe that making Natives as sports mascots is in poor taste.
However, I mentioned this before...the point about the state name is really a good point for the Washington Redskins side of the debate. I would find it difficult to tell a team to change their name from Redskins, if I represented a state that had a name that also means Red Skins.
Wrestlingcardking, you brought up hundreds of great points, and I agreed with almost all of them. But the one point about the state name, that it has assimilated as a part of our culture and isn't offensive, I don't think that is a strong of a defense. One could say that the football team is also assimilated then too. That would be separate than the disparaging mascots.
I think it is a point that has to be chalked up to the Washington Redskins side.
THe dialogue on the subject is a good start...and eventually a satisfactory resolution will come to pass.
Yeah, I said this was a political topic...and it didn't belong here...but Ichiro and Arod can get old sometimes too. >>
To say that this is a 'point', of sorts, for the Redskins side of the debate is to say that there is no qualitative difference between assigning a racist slur as a nickname for a sports team and assigning a native term to the name of a state.
Like so many related issues, this one comes down to a question of context. The issue of interest isn't 'what the term means'- it's the reasons and motivations behind assigning it. Some people, for whatever reason, lack the cognitive ability to understand this distinction, which is why they're baffled by the fact that so many black people take offense to the term 'n***er' when, say, a skinhead uses it, but seem largely indifferent when a black person uses it. When we compare the nickname 'Redskin' and the name 'Oklahoma', we can only understand why these two cases are not analogous if we understand that the context that gave rise to each is very different.
Put another way, the actual words being used are usually not as important as the context that inspired their use. This is true in nearly all walks of life, and the point is so self-evident that it feels a little depressing to have to introduce this distinction to this discussion. Fitz doesn't understand this because he's a simpleton, so he gets a pass. But I hope that most of us are mindful of this difference, and have the intellectual agility to see how this facet of language use does- and should- inform this debate.
I suggest that any might who care , do a article search of the early National Geo graphics , of why the Native Americans were referred to as savages . Sadly history is what it is . If others can be charged with past uses of now or future hate crimes , oh this easily qualifies . But this is a Leftist magazine , and will get the treatment that it never happened , or how does the Left say it , " you have to understand the context ", or even maybe it was never written .
Guy , context is important , but it also needs to be applied evenly . To say this Issue is not about Political Correctness is stupid , really , really stupid . Every now and then , here in Baltimore , or in any other city , someone gets worked up about a Confederate flag , while the crime and poverty and unwed mothers and local corruption goes on its merry way . Context , Guy , context , be careful our care and love for people that we pretend to care about , is showing . ---- Sonny
<< <i>Fitz , give it a rest . The normal ( South bound end of the North bound Donkey ) response by " The Expert " should be victory enough . To keep the argument going , just trying to draw others back in , give a little support to the idea that you and Einstein have the same personality defects .
Have a great snow day ------- Sonny >>
No, no, no. Not giving it a rest. WCK tries to come off as some educated conversationalist, when deep down he'd like to do to people in
the ring what Abdullah does to people. These are his own words, not mine. He said he would enjoy doing these things to me in the ring
while other members sat around and watched. Skin2 said he would enjoy that, so he's in the same boat as WCK.
WCK will not be back though. He will not be able to explain how the leader of the Choctaw tribe named a state Red People.
Or he'll begin talking out of both sides of his mouth the way 1985fan does.
BTW, 1985fan won't be back either. He's lost yet another debate. Redskin has NEVER been a racist term, as the leader of the Choctaws
tribe has cleared that up for us.
But we won't see them admit defeat. They'll just come on here and spin and spin just to argue. Kind of sad.
You have a great snow day too Sonny !
Boopotts, you were one of the select few who advocated physical abuse against edmund. Yet here you are again, indoctrinating us with PC orthodoxy. I would suggest reading Sonny's post, and if it doesn't sink it the first time, try again. What he is intimating applies directly to someone like you.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
Dems want to bury the real stories like Benghazi and Ray Nagin's extortion trial and concentrate on Chris Christy and the Florida SUV killing, and of course the mean old team owners that use distasteful logos.
<< <i>Political fluff.
Dems want to bury the real stories like Benghazi and Ray Nagin's extortion trial and concentrate on Chris Christy and the Florida SUV killing, and of course the mean old team owners that use distasteful logos. >>
And apparently they also want to keep reminding everyone what a hero Michael Sam is.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>Thank you for squaring up on the nail, calaban. This discussion desperately needed that.
Boopotts, you were one of the select few who advocated physical abuse against edmund. Yet here you are again, indoctrinating us with PC orthodoxy. I would suggest reading Sonny's post, and if it doesn't sink it the first time, try again. What he is intimating applies directly to someone like you. >>
I'm not 'indoctrinating' anyone. Jesus, do you guys even look up the definitions of these words, or do you just toss them around for effect? Every time one of these discussions start I feel like I'm dealing with the lippy 12 year old at the Thanksgiving table who doesn't know well enough to shut up once the grown-ups start discussing political matters.
Context, in language, is important. There's nothing 'indoctrinating' or 'politically correct' about recognizing that, and- in turn-recognizing that this distinction is relevant when we're discussing the difference between 'Oklahoma' and 'Redskins'. Furthermore, that's trueno matter which side of the Redskin debate you happen to be on. I mean, come on- please tell me you're just being obtuse for the hell of it.
<< <i>My beef is not with Guy . We don't see eye to eye often , but at least he gives ideas some thought , which is vastly different than most . I have a lot of respect for him and his ideas , even though I disagree with the bulk of them . His opinion counts just as much as mine or others . I believe for those that can think for themselves , they will be quite capable of coming to some conclusion that works for their worldview . Our country is in very deep trouble and when problems need to be dealt with , ideas that need to occur so that REAL working solutions , that actually better people's lives , that don't destroy what made this country great , these ideas need to happen and not be crushed . --- Sonny >>
Well stated, Sonny. I think even in cases where individuals have opposing viewpoints on a particular topic, that common ground or at least mutual respect can be gained. The problem is that most people's ideological beliefs are so ingrained in their psyche that they are incapable of even considering a viewpoint that differs from their general perspective.
Furthermore, I think these threads and this particular debate has run its course as far as this forum is concerned. Continuing to prolong and provoke with the creation of threads like this one has become counterproductive at this point, imo..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I'm not 'indoctrinating' anyone. Jesus, do you guys even look up the definitions of these words, or do you just toss them around for effect? Every time one of these discussions start I feel like I'm dealing with the lippy 12 year old at the Thanksgiving table who doesn't know well enough to shut up once the grown-ups start discussing political matters.
Context, in language, is important. There's nothing 'indoctrinating' or 'politically correct' about recognizing that, and- in turn-recognizing that this distinction is relevant when we're discussing the difference between 'Oklahoma' and 'Redskins'. Furthermore, that's trueno matter which side of the Redskin debate you happen to be on. I mean, come on- please tell me you're just being obtuse for the hell of it. >>
I'm all for lively debate, and I do my very best to be open-minded when it comes to the opinions of others. But when it comes to someone like you who parades around these parts acting like the voice of reason -- yet in the same breath wishing you were at the front row of a WCK-Edmund sparring match -- nothing you say from that point forward can be taken seriously. Surely you're not that "obtuse" and realize there's no nexus between that type of diametrically opposed behavior, right? And as if that wasn't enough, you of all people have the nerve to label him a "simpleton." Do you ever look up the definition of these words prior to using them? If you did, you'd refrain because your face is plastered next to it in the dictionary.
I've been mum in regard to these OT PC threads, but you somehow managed to untie my fingers. If you disagree with him or anyone else, do it in the most civil way. If that's asking too much of your brain and you resort to advocating bodily harm and/or name calling, then you'll be relegated to the Thanksgiving table with the lippy 12-year-olds.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm not 'indoctrinating' anyone. Jesus, do you guys even look up the definitions of these words, or do you just toss them around for effect? Every time one of these discussions start I feel like I'm dealing with the lippy 12 year old at the Thanksgiving table who doesn't know well enough to shut up once the grown-ups start discussing political matters.
Context, in language, is important. There's nothing 'indoctrinating' or 'politically correct' about recognizing that, and- in turn-recognizing that this distinction is relevant when we're discussing the difference between 'Oklahoma' and 'Redskins'. Furthermore, that's trueno matter which side of the Redskin debate you happen to be on. I mean, come on- please tell me you're just being obtuse for the hell of it. >>
I'm all for lively debate, and I do my very best to be open-minded when it comes to the opinions of others. But when it comes to someone like you who parades around these parts acting like the voice of reason -- yet in the same breath wishing you were at the front row of a WCK-Edmund sparring match -- nothing you say from that point forward can be taken seriously. Surely you're not that "obtuse" and realize there's no nexus between that type of diametrically opposed behavior, right? And as if that wasn't enough, you of all people have the nerve to label him a "simpleton." Do you ever look up the definition of these words prior to using them? If you did, you'd refrain because your face is plastered next to it in the dictionary.
I've been mum in regard to these OT PC threads, but you somehow managed to untie my fingers. If you disagree with him or anyone else, do it in the most civil way. If that's asking too much of your brain and you resort to advocating bodily harm and/or name calling, then you'll be relegated to the Thanksgiving table with the lippy 12-year-olds. >>
Nothing I say can be taken seriously? Delightful. Then feel free to ignore me. The Internet will work better for you that way.
It baffles me that there is such an uprising over the names of sports teams. Just take a glance at the link I posted and there are a multitude of more important issues facing us. Perhaps this is a way for people to not focus on the root of the problem.
<< <i>US Debt Clock
It baffles me that there is such an uprising over the names of sports teams. Just take a glance at the link I posted and there are a multitude of more important issues facing us. Perhaps this is a way for people to not focus on the root of the problem. >>
Distraction is important in the modern world of politics.
<< <i>I wonder if WCK would enjoy having this in his personal collection too
He and the Sports Card Forum members could sit around and laugh and enjoy what ABDULLAH is doing to this guy.
Not to pick nits and OT from the thread... but it's not as bad as it looks. A couple of strategic nicks with a tiny razor blade sliver combined with a lot of sweat looks like bloody slaughter.
Speaking of blading, check out the massive scar tissue atop Abdullah's head. He bled like a fountain for years; it was his only skill. Last I heard some Canadian wrestler was looking at suing him for giving him hepatitis due to Abby cutting him with his (Abby's) own blade. Ab swore he was clean but had yet to provide medical proof at the time I stopped following the story. Maybe WCK can elaborate. WWE pretty much has a no-blood policy now... any blood you see is accidental. TNA rarely shows blood anymore. Can't speak to ROH or smaller independents but they've likely followed suit to varying degrees.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
Butcher is a scumbag. He's well-known for blading guys against their will and being kinda reckless in how he does it. Of course, at this point - and really, at any point for the last 20 years - anybody getting in the ring with Abdullah knows what they're getting. Don't take "getting in the ring" literally as he's so fat and old at this point that he never even gets in the ring in a lot of his matches.
Has 1985fan gone ?
Oh where, oh where
can he be ???
Perhaps he' packing his bags and moving to Oklahoma
<< <i>I miss 1985fan.
Whether you agreed with him or not, he definitely livened up this forum, which is about to turn much quieter. If it weren't for the thread about how overrated Ichiro is, this place would be almost completely dead, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Like him or dislike him, his posts on the Sports Forum got the place jumping.
I visualize him at his keyboard waiting to type in his latest statements about various topics which he appears to hold strong opinions about; and to jump down the throat of anyone and everyone who makes a comment that he disagrees with (usually calling them idiots, or worse [including me).