<< <i>Now consider that football isn't what it used to be? If we still had the same D rules as 1970's-80's, than you can drop Brady, Manning, and everyone else who benefits from the QB's who get to where skirts now. That's my criteria for a great QB, one who doesn't wear a skirt >>
In the 1970s, there were 200-pound defensive lineman. Maybe the QBs back then didn't wear a skirt, but they didn't have to face a real pass rush either
<< <i>Now consider that football isn't what it used to be? If we still had the same D rules as 1970's-80's, than you can drop Brady, Manning, and everyone else who benefits from the QB's who get to where skirts now. That's my criteria for a great QB, one who doesn't wear a skirt >>
In the 1970s, there were 200-pound defensive lineman. Maybe the QBs back then didn't wear a skirt, but they didn't have to face a real pass rush either >>
Careful now, you're going to ruin the romantic notion of gridiron greats playin' ball with missing teeth in the good ol' days.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Now consider that football isn't what it used to be? If we still had the same D rules as 1970's-80's, than you can drop Brady, Manning, and everyone else who benefits from the QB's who get to where skirts now. That's my criteria for a great QB, one who doesn't wear a skirt. I am not a Marino fan. If I wasn't allowed to watch any film of any of my favs, and could only watch Marino, I wouldn't complain. About the only thing he didn't have on his legs from hip to toe, was a complete cast. Montana, Fouts, Anderson, Stabler, Staubach, Kelly, Elway, A Manning, Dawson, Plunkett, Theisman, Bradshaw, and the list goes on, they all took a beating. All those crap calls this last season like Drew Brees whining his skirt got wrinkled after Smith wiped him out, wouldn't fly back in the day. Dislodging the ball USED to be a key component and goal of a D player. Not any more! You dislodge the ball.... 15 yards FIRST DOWN!! The NFL used to stand for National Football League, now it is No Football League. Ninny Football League? National Fluff League? Take your pick, in fact, make your own up.
Being 'tougher' than another QB doesn't equate to being better than them.
Also, Montana and Marino didn't exactly play in the 'old school' era either. Sure, not as passer friendly as now, but not the pre '78 days either.
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him That would put him out of the top five in his own era....extremely laughable putting him top five all-time.
But I have to ask for the guys rating only the 60's/70's era guys in the top five, and doing so based primarily on playing in an era tougher to pass, and rougher era to play the position.
What about the guys that played BEFORE that era, when it was even tougher to play(less passing rules and much worse equipment)??? That would means that THOSE old-timers would supplant Staubach, Unitas, Starr, etc... on your all-time top five QB list, because they played when it was even tougher to play the position!
<< <i>What about the guys that played BEFORE that era, when it was even tougher to play(less passing rules and much worse equipment)??? That would means that THOSE old-timers would supplant Staubach, Unitas, Starr, etc... on your all-time top five QB list, because they played when it was even tougher to play the position! >>
Those guys weren't on TV so they don't count.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>What about the guys that played BEFORE that era, when it was even tougher to play(less passing rules and much worse equipment)??? That would means that THOSE old-timers would supplant Staubach, Unitas, Starr, etc... on your all-time top five QB list, because they played when it was even tougher to play the position! >>
Those guys weren't on TV so they don't count. >>
Both Unitas and Starr spent the better parts of their careers outside the popular age of TV football.
Both Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham were duely noted on my list, which should have included Sid Luckman as well.
I don't think Super Bowls should be a requirement in these lists. If it was a running backs list we'd never have Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson or OJ Simpson on the list. And Walter Payton probably wouldn't make it either with 61 yards, no TDs and a fumble in his lone SB.
<< <i>I don't think Super Bowls should be a requirement in these lists. If it was a running backs list we'd never have Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson or OJ Simpson on the list. And Walter Payton probably wouldn't make it either with 61 yards, no TDs and a fumble in his lone SB. >>
Running backs are not the leaders of the team like a QB.
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him That would put him out of the top five in his own era....extremely laughable putting him top five all-time.
>>
Nonsense. About the only QB who might have been better than Bradshaw in his era is Staubach.
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him That would put him out of the top five in his own era....extremely laughable putting him top five all-time.
>>
Nonsense. About the only QB who might have been better than Bradshaw in his era is Staubach. >>
Wrong. Already been laid out plenty of times conclusively. Heck, his backups did better than him when given the lead of that team, lol! It was the team that made Bradshaw, not the other way around. Without the elite teammates, Bradshaw spent five years as an average QB. It was the team, not him
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him That would put him out of the top five in his own era....extremely laughable putting him top five all-time.
>>
Nonsense. About the only QB who might have been better than Bradshaw in his era is Staubach. >>
Wrong. Already been laid out plenty of times conclusively. Heck, his backups did better than him when given the lead of that team, lol! It was the team that made Bradshaw, not the other way around. Without the elite teammates, Bradshaw spent five years as an average QB. It was the team, not him >>
You are too funny. 6 games by a back-up with 0 playoff victories mean crap. You always never want to mention all his individual awards. 3 MVP'S and SI Sportsman of the year award. What HAS been laid out is he is a top 50 NFL player of all time(NFL network) and top 2 QB in his era.
<< <i>I don't think Super Bowls should be a requirement in these lists. If it was a running backs list we'd never have Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson or OJ Simpson on the list. And Walter Payton probably wouldn't make it either with 61 yards, no TDs and a fumble in his lone SB. >>
Running backs are not the leaders of the team like a QB. >>
Who do you think leads the current Vikings team? You think Walter Payton wasn't the leader of his bears teams? This is among your most foolish posts and that is saying something.
<< <i>Who do you think leads the current Vikings team? You think Walter Payton wasn't the leader of his bears teams? This is among your most foolish posts and that is saying something. >>
As great as Adrian Peterson is -- getting very close to top five in history -- the Vikings have been a .500 team since he joined them. Is there anyone anywhere near the top five in quarter backs whose teams lost as much as they won?
<< <i>Who do you think leads the current Vikings team? You think Walter Payton wasn't the leader of his bears teams? This is among your most foolish posts and that is saying something. >>
As great as Adrian Peterson is -- getting very close to top five in history -- the Vikings have been a .500 team since he joined them. Is there anyone anywhere near the top five in quarter backs whose teams lost as much as they won? >>
Troy Aikman is not top five...but when he had those amazing teams, they won three Super Bowls.
However, in all his other seasons combined, Troy was only able to 'lead' them to a 58-61 record. If Troy(or the QB) was that integral that one would use a team title to determine how good they were...then Troy(three time title winner), would not spend the rest of his career at 58-61.
The reality is, 45 guys and a coaching staff all get a share for that title. Luck gets his slice of the pie as well.
In the Steelers case, the lions share of the credit for winning was the defense. The QB for them rode coattails half the time, and was only performing at a high level when surrounded by elite receivers and running backs...because before he had them, he had a chance to prove it was HIM doing the job...but he failed to do so. He was only mediocre.
In Brady's case, it is pretty obvious that he gets a lions share of the credit(which he also has to share with the other guys and coaching staff too)...but certainly more so than a Bradshaw or Aikman.
<< <i>You are too funny. 6 games by a back-up with 0 playoff victories mean crap. You always never want to mention all his individual awards. 3 MVP'S and SI Sportsman of the year award. What HAS been laid out is he is a top 50 NFL player of all time(NFL network) and top 2 QB in his era.
But keep ignoring all of those facts >>
3 MVPs? He won only one. Oh wait, you're counting his Super Bowl MVPs. You know, the same award won by luminaries like Larry Brown. And one of those Super Bowl MVPs was won in a game where he threw 3 picks against just 2 TDs.
During the two prolonged gaps of Bradshaw's career where the Steelers played his backups, the team went 11-1-1.
Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time.
Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time. >>
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time.
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
No offense, soundgard, but you are really in over your head in this thread..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time. >>
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
No offense, soundgard, but you are really in over your head in this thread.. >>
Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
Nice opinion grote, but I will take the opinions of the experts at the NFL network over a couple of knuckleheads on a message board.
You cant deny that fans will always hold QB's in high regard to how many championships they won. And Bradshaw has the individual awards and a first ballot hall of fame honor to boot.
Actually, I'm a big fan of the 70's Steelers teams...and that is part of the reason I am putting the credit for their dominance where it belongs...and it certainly does not belong on Bradshaw's shoulders, as that has been shown quite conclusively!
<< <i>Troy Aikman is not top five...but when he had those amazing teams, they won three Super Bowls. >>
The question wasn't "Did any quarter back outside the top five ever have a great record?" The question was "Did any quarterback close to the top five have a .500 record like Peterson?"
Aikman, Bradshaw and Brady don't answer the question. Unless there are better examples, the answer must be No.
<< <i>Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time. >>
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
No offense, soundgard, but you are really in over your head in this thread.. >>
Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
Nice opinion grote, but I will take the opinions of the experts at the NFL network over a couple of knuckleheads on a message board.
You cant deny that fans will always hold QB's in high regard to how many championships they won. And Bradshaw has the individual awards and a first ballot hall of fame honor to boot. >>
Yes, because we all know that talking heads on the NFL network have great insight to such evaluations, LOL..If you need that kind of useless banter to form your opinion without actually looking beyond the most obvious and superficial facts, then yes, you are in over your head, no offense.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Actually, I'm a big fan of the 70's Steelers teams...and that is part of the reason I am putting the credit for their dominance where it belongs...and it certainly does not belong on Bradshaw's shoulders, as that has been shown quite conclusively! >>
Give me the link to the article. I must've missed that one. Does it say that Swann or Harris called the plays?
<< <i>Troy Aikman is not top five...but when he had those amazing teams, they won three Super Bowls. >>
The question wasn't "Did any quarter back outside the top five ever have a great record?" The question was "Did any quarterback close to the top five have a .500 record like Peterson?"
Aikman, Bradshaw and Brady don't answer the question. Unless there are better examples, the answer must be No. >>
Problem is, the top QB's are rated at the top, partly because they were on great teams and won...so there is some skewing going on. It is entirely possible that the consensus top five QB is completely wrong.
It is also possible that Adrian Peterson isn't the top five back.
How close was Aikman to the top five? I've seen people put him in the top ten(by virtue of three Cowboy championships). That is close enough to show that if he was so important and good, then his teams wouldn't be 58-61 without an elite cast.
Heck, the way Aikman talks, he probably thinks he is number one all-time, even though his teammates brought him three titles.
skin, Forget consensus top five, who do you think were the top five quarter backs in history? How does the success of their teams compare to the success of who you think are the top five running backs?
Actually, I'm a big fan of the 70's Steelers teams...and that is part of the reason I am putting the credit for their dominance where it belongs...and it certainly does not belong on Bradshaw's shoulders, as that has been shown quite conclusively! >>
Give me the link to the article. I must've missed that one. Does it say that Swann or Harris called the plays? >>
Article? Don't need some writer to do my thinking. You may need that, but I don't. Sorry buddy.
As for the Bradshaw stuff, been laid out already. 70's Steelers were all-time great. Bradshaw was good...but doesn't come close to sniffing the top ten.
<< <i>skin, Forget consensus top five, who do you think were the top five quarter backs in history? How does the success of their teams compare to the success of who you think are the top five running backs?
I don't see Aikman as top 20 >>
In no particular order:
Staubach Elway Brady Montana Manning
I look at QB's who performed successfully, but were also able to have success with/without elite skill position players, and with different sets of players. This helps show that it tended to be more of them, carrying a team, as opposed to a system or teammates carrying them.
Also, physical attributes are important as well. I know Elway has a cannon and can run. That is a tangible good, and I know for a fact it isn't coming from a system of skill ability of their teammates, it stems from him, and from him only.
I have to say that the next five QB's could probably change places with them, and it wouldn't matter.
Top five backs no order:
Payton
Jim Brown
Sanders
Sayers...may seem odd on my list, but it is evident that he was the creator of his plays with his insane ability, as opposed to the beneficiary of big plays because of the supporting case. Obvious short career hurts.
O.J Simpson. Hate to put him on there because I despise him...so I am putting Adrian Peterson up there for now.
I tend to value the running backs that had a tendency to make people miss because of THEIR ability, via agility, speed, power, or combination of all three; as opposed to running backs who may have been good, but also had a likelihood that their success was also stemming from their system or teammates, like Emmitt Smith and their O-Line.
Head to head, there is no doubt an elite QB is more important than an elite RB. So, you probably won't get an argument from me on your question.
Nice opinion grote, but I will take the opinions of the experts at the NFL network over a couple of knuckleheads on a message board.
You cant deny that fans will always hold QB's in high regard to how many championships they won. And Bradshaw has the individual awards and a first ballot hall of fame honor to boot. >>
I am hardly a hater of the 70s Steelers teams. Not a fan of the current incarnation because I don't like Roethlisberger and Tomlin but the 70s guys are fine. I'm not a hater of Bradshaw either. I just think he's been overrated.
Again, let's remember that Terry missed long stretches in his career twice. During those two stretches, his backups were 11-1-1. It's not a huge stretch to say that maybe, just maybe, the reason they won a lot was not the guy under center.
Comments
<< <i>Now consider that football isn't what it used to be? If we still had the same D rules as 1970's-80's, than you can drop Brady, Manning, and everyone else who benefits from the QB's who get to where skirts now. That's my criteria for a great QB, one who doesn't wear a skirt >>
In the 1970s, there were 200-pound defensive lineman. Maybe the QBs back then didn't wear a skirt, but they didn't have to face a real pass rush either
<< <i>
<< <i>Now consider that football isn't what it used to be? If we still had the same D rules as 1970's-80's, than you can drop Brady, Manning, and everyone else who benefits from the QB's who get to where skirts now. That's my criteria for a great QB, one who doesn't wear a skirt >>
In the 1970s, there were 200-pound defensive lineman. Maybe the QBs back then didn't wear a skirt, but they didn't have to face a real pass rush either >>
Careful now, you're going to ruin the romantic notion of gridiron greats playin' ball with missing teeth in the good ol' days.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Jack Trudeau
Bob Avellini
Rodney Peete
Ryan Leaf
*snicker*
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>
<< <i>Now consider that football isn't what it used to be? If we still had the same D rules as 1970's-80's, than you can drop Brady, Manning, and everyone else who benefits from the QB's who get to where skirts now. That's my criteria for a great QB, one who doesn't wear a skirt. I am not a Marino fan. If I wasn't allowed to watch any film of any of my favs, and could only watch Marino, I wouldn't complain. About the only thing he didn't have on his legs from hip to toe, was a complete cast. Montana, Fouts, Anderson, Stabler, Staubach, Kelly, Elway, A Manning, Dawson, Plunkett, Theisman, Bradshaw, and the list goes on, they all took a beating. All those crap calls this last season like Drew Brees whining his skirt got wrinkled after Smith wiped him out, wouldn't fly back in the day. Dislodging the ball USED to be a key component and goal of a D player. Not any more! You dislodge the ball.... 15 yards FIRST DOWN!! The NFL used to stand for National Football League, now it is No Football League. Ninny Football League? National Fluff League? Take your pick, in fact, make your own up.
1. Montana
2. Unitas
3. Bradshaw
4. Staubach
5. Starr
Honorable Mention: Fouts/Marino >>
+1 I couldn't have said it any better myself >>
+2
Also, Montana and Marino didn't exactly play in the 'old school' era either. Sure, not as passer friendly as now, but not the pre '78 days either.
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him
But I have to ask for the guys rating only the 60's/70's era guys in the top five, and doing so based primarily on playing in an era tougher to pass, and rougher era to play the position.
What about the guys that played BEFORE that era, when it was even tougher to play(less passing rules and much worse equipment)??? That would means that THOSE old-timers would supplant Staubach, Unitas, Starr, etc... on your all-time top five QB list, because they played when it was even tougher to play the position!
<< <i>What about the guys that played BEFORE that era, when it was even tougher to play(less passing rules and much worse equipment)??? That would means that THOSE old-timers would supplant Staubach, Unitas, Starr, etc... on your all-time top five QB list, because they played when it was even tougher to play the position!
Those guys weren't on TV so they don't count.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>What about the guys that played BEFORE that era, when it was even tougher to play(less passing rules and much worse equipment)??? That would means that THOSE old-timers would supplant Staubach, Unitas, Starr, etc... on your all-time top five QB list, because they played when it was even tougher to play the position!
Those guys weren't on TV so they don't count.
Both Unitas and Starr spent the better parts of their careers outside the popular age of TV football.
Both Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham were duely noted on my list, which should have included Sid Luckman as well.
Nice try guys
<< <i>I don't think Super Bowls should be a requirement in these lists. If it was a running backs list we'd never have Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson or OJ Simpson on the list. And Walter Payton probably wouldn't make it either with 61 yards, no TDs and a fumble in his lone SB. >>
Running backs are not the leaders of the team like a QB.
<< <i>
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him
>>
Nonsense. About the only QB who might have been better than Bradshaw in his era is Staubach.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him
>>
Nonsense. About the only QB who might have been better than Bradshaw in his era is Staubach. >>
Wrong. Already been laid out plenty of times conclusively. Heck, his backups did better than him when given the lead of that team, lol! It was the team that made Bradshaw, not the other way around. Without the elite teammates, Bradshaw spent five years as an average QB. It was the team, not him
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
Bradshaw may have been tough...but then that means all the other QB's from his era were equally as tough if they also played as many games as him in that era...and we already know that there were SEVERAL QB's from his era that were also BETTER QB's than him
>>
Nonsense. About the only QB who might have been better than Bradshaw in his era is Staubach. >>
Wrong. Already been laid out plenty of times conclusively. Heck, his backups did better than him when given the lead of that team, lol! It was the team that made Bradshaw, not the other way around. Without the elite teammates, Bradshaw spent five years as an average QB. It was the team, not him
You are too funny. 6 games by a back-up with 0 playoff victories mean crap. You always never want to mention all his individual awards. 3 MVP'S and SI Sportsman of the year award. What HAS been laid out is he is a top 50 NFL player of all time(NFL network) and top 2 QB in his era.
But keep ignoring all of those facts
<< <i>
<< <i>I don't think Super Bowls should be a requirement in these lists. If it was a running backs list we'd never have Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, Eric Dickerson or OJ Simpson on the list. And Walter Payton probably wouldn't make it either with 61 yards, no TDs and a fumble in his lone SB. >>
Running backs are not the leaders of the team like a QB. >>
Who do you think leads the current Vikings team? You think Walter Payton wasn't the leader of his bears teams? This is among your most foolish posts and that is saying something.
<< <i>Who do you think leads the current Vikings team? You think Walter Payton wasn't the leader of his bears teams? This is among your most foolish posts and that is saying something. >>
As great as Adrian Peterson is -- getting very close to top five in history -- the Vikings have been a .500 team since he joined them. Is there anyone anywhere near the top five in quarter backs whose teams lost as much as they won?
<< <i>
<< <i>Who do you think leads the current Vikings team? You think Walter Payton wasn't the leader of his bears teams? This is among your most foolish posts and that is saying something. >>
As great as Adrian Peterson is -- getting very close to top five in history -- the Vikings have been a .500 team since he joined them. Is there anyone anywhere near the top five in quarter backs whose teams lost as much as they won? >>
Troy Aikman is not top five...but when he had those amazing teams, they won three Super Bowls.
However, in all his other seasons combined, Troy was only able to 'lead' them to a 58-61 record. If Troy(or the QB) was that integral that one would use a team title to determine how good they were...then Troy(three time title winner), would not spend the rest of his career at 58-61.
The reality is, 45 guys and a coaching staff all get a share for that title. Luck gets his slice of the pie as well.
In the Steelers case, the lions share of the credit for winning was the defense. The QB for them rode coattails half the time, and was only performing at a high level when surrounded by elite receivers and running backs...because before he had them, he had a chance to prove it was HIM doing the job...but he failed to do so. He was only mediocre.
In Brady's case, it is pretty obvious that he gets a lions share of the credit(which he also has to share with the other guys and coaching staff too)...but certainly more so than a Bradshaw or Aikman.
So NV, it depends on who and what team.
<< <i>You are too funny. 6 games by a back-up with 0 playoff victories mean crap. You always never want to mention all his individual awards. 3 MVP'S and SI Sportsman of the year award. What HAS been laid out is he is a top 50 NFL player of all time(NFL network) and top 2 QB in his era.
But keep ignoring all of those facts
3 MVPs? He won only one. Oh wait, you're counting his Super Bowl MVPs. You know, the same award won by luminaries like Larry Brown. And one of those Super Bowl MVPs was won in a game where he threw 3 picks against just 2 TDs.
During the two prolonged gaps of Bradshaw's career where the Steelers played his backups, the team went 11-1-1.
Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time. >>
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
No offense, soundgard, but you are really in over your head in this thread..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time. >>
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
No offense, soundgard, but you are really in over your head in this thread.. >>
Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
Nice opinion grote, but I will take the opinions of the experts at the NFL network over a couple of knuckleheads on a message board.
You cant deny that fans will always hold QB's in high regard to how many championships they won. And Bradshaw has the individual awards and a first ballot hall of fame honor to boot.
<< <i>
Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
>>
Actually, I'm a big fan of the 70's Steelers teams...and that is part of the reason I am putting the credit for their dominance where it belongs...and it certainly does not belong on Bradshaw's shoulders, as that has been shown quite conclusively!
<< <i>Troy Aikman is not top five...but when he had those amazing teams, they won three Super Bowls. >>
The question wasn't "Did any quarter back outside the top five ever have a great record?" The question was "Did any quarterback close to the top five have a .500 record like Peterson?"
Aikman, Bradshaw and Brady don't answer the question. Unless there are better examples, the answer must be No.
<< <i>
<< <i>Fact is, he threw a ton of picks and won a lot of games by handing off to Franco Harris and letting the defense hold people to 13 points. Bradshaw was a fine QB but belongs nowhere near a discussion of Top 5 QBs all-time. Or top 50 players of all-time. >>
I guess many disagree with you then if the NFL network has him in the top 50. In the 70's the game was a lot different. QB's threw a lot more picks. Turnovers was not as big a factor.
No offense, soundgard, but you are really in over your head in this thread.. >>
Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
Nice opinion grote, but I will take the opinions of the experts at the NFL network over a couple of knuckleheads on a message board.
You cant deny that fans will always hold QB's in high regard to how many championships they won. And Bradshaw has the individual awards and a first ballot hall of fame honor to boot. >>
Yes, because we all know that talking heads on the NFL network have great insight to such evaluations, LOL..If you need that kind of useless banter to form your opinion without actually looking beyond the most obvious and superficial facts, then yes, you are in over your head, no offense.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
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Actually, I'm a big fan of the 70's Steelers teams...and that is part of the reason I am putting the credit for their dominance where it belongs...and it certainly does not belong on Bradshaw's shoulders, as that has been shown quite conclusively! >>
Give me the link to the article. I must've missed that one. Does it say that Swann or Harris called the plays?
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<< <i>Troy Aikman is not top five...but when he had those amazing teams, they won three Super Bowls. >>
The question wasn't "Did any quarter back outside the top five ever have a great record?" The question was "Did any quarterback close to the top five have a .500 record like Peterson?"
Aikman, Bradshaw and Brady don't answer the question. Unless there are better examples, the answer must be No. >>
Problem is, the top QB's are rated at the top, partly because they were on great teams and won...so there is some skewing going on. It is entirely possible that the consensus top five QB is completely wrong.
It is also possible that Adrian Peterson isn't the top five back.
How close was Aikman to the top five? I've seen people put him in the top ten(by virtue of three Cowboy championships). That is close enough to show that if he was so important and good, then his teams wouldn't be 58-61 without an elite cast.
Heck, the way Aikman talks, he probably thinks he is number one all-time, even though his teammates brought him three titles.
Forget consensus top five, who do you think were the top five quarter backs in history? How does the success of their teams compare to the success of who you think are the top five running backs?
I don't see Aikman as top 20
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/556512-nfls-best-qbs-montana-bradshaw-and-brady-top-three-under-new-rating-system
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Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
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Actually, I'm a big fan of the 70's Steelers teams...and that is part of the reason I am putting the credit for their dominance where it belongs...and it certainly does not belong on Bradshaw's shoulders, as that has been shown quite conclusively! >>
Give me the link to the article. I must've missed that one. Does it say that Swann or Harris called the plays?
Article? Don't need some writer to do my thinking. You may need that, but I don't. Sorry buddy.
As for the Bradshaw stuff, been laid out already. 70's Steelers were all-time great. Bradshaw was good...but doesn't come close to sniffing the top ten.
<< <i>skin,
Forget consensus top five, who do you think were the top five quarter backs in history? How does the success of their teams compare to the success of who you think are the top five running backs?
I don't see Aikman as top 20 >>
In no particular order:
Staubach
Elway
Brady
Montana
Manning
I look at QB's who performed successfully, but were also able to have success with/without elite skill position players, and with different sets of players. This helps show that it tended to be more of them, carrying a team, as opposed to a system or teammates carrying them.
Also, physical attributes are important as well. I know Elway has a cannon and can run. That is a tangible good, and I know for a fact it isn't coming from a system of skill ability of their teammates, it stems from him, and from him only.
I have to say that the next five QB's could probably change places with them, and it wouldn't matter.
Top five backs no order:
Payton
Jim Brown
Sanders
Sayers...may seem odd on my list, but it is evident that he was the creator of his plays with his insane ability, as opposed to the beneficiary of big plays because of the supporting case. Obvious short career hurts.
O.J Simpson. Hate to put him on there because I despise him...so I am putting Adrian Peterson up there for now.
I tend to value the running backs that had a tendency to make people miss because of THEIR ability, via agility, speed, power, or combination of all three; as opposed to running backs who may have been good, but also had a likelihood that their success was also stemming from their system or teammates, like Emmitt Smith and their O-Line.
Head to head, there is no doubt an elite QB is more important than an elite RB. So, you probably won't get an argument from me on your question.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Ah gotta love all these Steelers haters
Nice opinion grote, but I will take the opinions of the experts at the NFL network over a couple of knuckleheads on a message board.
You cant deny that fans will always hold QB's in high regard to how many championships they won. And Bradshaw has the individual awards and a first ballot hall of fame honor to boot. >>
I am hardly a hater of the 70s Steelers teams. Not a fan of the current incarnation because I don't like Roethlisberger and Tomlin but the 70s guys are fine. I'm not a hater of Bradshaw either. I just think he's been overrated.
Again, let's remember that Terry missed long stretches in his career twice. During those two stretches, his backups were 11-1-1. It's not a huge stretch to say that maybe, just maybe, the reason they won a lot was not the guy under center.
<< <i>What a sad question and thread. >>
HAHAHAHA
<< <i>Running backs are not the leaders of the team like a QB. >>
Even in some SB teams, that is not always the case.
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<< <i>Running backs are not the leaders of the team like a QB. >>
Even in some SB teams, that is not always the case. >>
I would say that prior to the ease in passing rules that Running Back could be the most important individual player(s) on a team.
Johnny Unitas
Joe Montana
Otto Graham
Sammy Baugh