Manning or Elway?
Tishasheree
Posts: 85
Who is/was the better quarterback? There is a heated Facebook discussion on my page about this subject. I am trying to keep out of it, because it is getting nasty. I think that Elway was more athletic overall, but Manning is smarter. Manning's stats are better, but it is a different game these days, so I'm not sure how much stats matter.
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Elway was certainly the better overall athlete and had the stronger arm, but the rest of the elite NFL QB package had to develop over time.
Manning has phenomenal mechanics, legendary work ethic, and the football smarts you mentioned (which came in no small part from his work ethic and studying playbooks & game film). He came into the league well ahead of where Elway (or anyone else) was. I'm still amazed the Colts weren't the dominant team of the early 2000's instead of the Patriots... Manning, Edge, & Harrison in their primes and a pretty solid defense for many of those years as well.
Snorto~
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
To be honest, no direction, but...
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<< <i>Manning and it's not even close in my opinion. I usually have a bias for past players, but Manning is the most complete QB to ever play the game in my opinion.
Elway was certainly the better overall athlete and had the stronger arm, but the rest of the elite NFL QB package had to develop over time.
Manning has phenomenal mechanics, legendary work ethic, and the football smarts you mentioned (which came in no small part from his work ethic and studying playbooks & game film). He came into the league well ahead of where Elway (or anyone else) was. I'm still amazed the Colts weren't the dominant team of the early 2000's instead of the Patriots... Manning, Edge, & Harrison in their primes and a pretty solid defense for many of those years as well.
Snorto~ >>
Well said. I have ever seen a quarterback do what Mannng does....namely read defenses with such efficiency, audibalize, and be one step ahead of the defense. We should all cherish the days we have Manning to watch because we won't ever see another one like him.
Elway is one of the all time great sin his own right. But I always disliked him for dissing Baltimore out of college and trying to call his own shots. Punk move that is so opposite of Mannings style
TheClockworkAngelCollection
Elway is one of the all time great sin his own right. But I always disliked him for dissing Baltimore out of college and trying to call his own shots. Punk move that is so opposite of Mannings style >>
I sort of jumped on that bandwagon as well. I was born at Stanford Hospital and grew up in the area. Once I joined the Air Force and started my travels, I ended up at Warfield ANG in1983 (TDY), just after Elway refused to play for Baltimore. I went to that game and it was crazy loud. There where posters all over the stadium bashing Elway and the game was loud. Someone had a large poster of Elway tapped on a stadium wall that said, "spit on me". It was pretty gross by halftime. He was eventually boo'd out of the stadium. I'll never forget and I'm sure he won't either. While in Denver in 2010-2011 I went to his Steakhouse and had one great steak. A bit pricey but a fun experience.
To be honest, no direction, but...
1966-69 Topps EX+
1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
<< <i>Manning and it's not even close in my opinion. I usually have a bias for past players, but Manning is the most complete QB to ever play the game in my opinion. >>
I'm curious how a guy with zero foot speed and even less scrambling ability can be "the most complete"? Don't get me wrong, he's amazing - better than Elway for sure - but that area is definitely a glaring hole in his game.
<< <i>In a big game I'd take Elway every time over Manning >>
SB XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
SB XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
SB XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20
Not only did Elway loose these "Big Games" but he didn't even show up.
CDsNuts, 1/9/15
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<< <i>In a big game I'd take Elway every time over Manning >>
SB XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
SB XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
SB XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20
Not only did Elway loose these "Big Games" but he didn't even show up. >>
Eh, every one of those teams won multiple Super Bowls in each 5 year window. Tough to blame Denver for playing in the vastly weaker conference. They wouldn't have reached the Super Bowl in the NFC.
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On the Elway Manning debate. Manning by a long spread. Elway had a better arm, for sure, but accuracy and intelligence go to Manning and its not even close. Manning will go down as the best QB in history, regardless of the outcome of tomorrows game or if it's his last. Putting it in terms of a RB debate, I have always been a Cowboys fan, but when the Barry Sanders/ Emmitt debate comes up, I can honestly say that even though Emmitt was tougher and might have had a more complete game, Sanders was by far the better of the two.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
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<< <i>Hands down Peyton Manning. Elway's fingers would still be bare if it weren't for Terrell Davis. >>
Manning has only one ring with all those stacked offenses he enjoyed in Indy.
I take Elway, no doubt about it. Manning may be "smarter" as everyone calls it, but Elway's athletic ability and toughness puts him ahead of Peyton.
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<< <i>In a big game I'd take Elway every time over Manning >>
SB XXIV Jan. 28, 1990 San Francisco 55, Denver 10
SB XXII Jan. 31, 1988 Washington 42, Denver 10
SB XXI Jan. 25, 1987 N.Y. Giants 39, Denver 20
Not only did Elway loose these "Big Games" but he didn't even show up. >>
I've always believed that the best AFC "team" during those three (well, at least the first two anyway) years didn't make it to the big game
My Top 10 QB's
1. Manning
2. Unitas
3. Montana
4. Marino
5. Graham
6. Baugh
7. Elway
8. Brady
9. Farve
10. (3 way tie) Luckman/Tarkenton/Young
<< <i>I'm taking Manning but no disrespect to Elway, who is in my Top Ten
My Top 10 QB's
1. Manning
2. Unitas
3. Montana
4. Marino
5. Graham
6. Baugh
7. Elway
8. Brady
9. Farve
10. (3 way tie) Luckman/Tarkenton/Young >>
Otto Graham has 7 titles and his QB Rating is 11 points better than the next closest guy in his time (Luckman). The fact that he doesn't get Bill Russell treatment (#2 at worst) is completely ridiculous. You want to choose a #1 from your own time, fine, but Graham is at least 2nd.
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<< <i>Hands down Peyton Manning. Elway's fingers would still be bare if it weren't for Terrell Davis. >>
Agree.
Peyton's kid brother did end up doing the same thing to the Chargers though......
<< <i>Watch the 30 for 30 episode on the 1984 NFL Draft; "Elway to Marino" You'll be reminded of what a total d-bag Elway and his dad were back then.
Peyton's kid brother did end up doing the same thing to the Chargers though...... >>
Agree with both of those points. I would take Peyton. I think Elway made too many mistakes in quarters 1-3, which is why his Denver teams needed all of those 4 quarter comebacks
<< <i>Watch the 30 for 30 episode on the 1984 NFL Draft; "Elway to Marino" You'll be reminded of what a total d-bag Elway and his dad were back then.
Peyton's kid brother did end up doing the same thing to the Chargers though...... >>
Totally agree with this.
Here's a question....name me ONE player on the Broncos 80s Super Bowl teams, and don't look it up on google.
I say put Elway in the league today, with the rules stating he can't be touched, and his receivers free to run a crossed the middle without being decapitated by a safety. Put him on a team where he has a legitimate receiving staff. Put him in a division where Howie Long and Derrick Thomas are not teeing off on him twice a year....then see how many Super Bowls, and records he has.
Now, flip the script, and put immobile Peyton Manning on those 1980s bronco teams...no receivers, no line, no rules to protect him, and not even 1/2 the athlete Elway was.....
Peyton Manning is one of the greatest of all time, no doubt....but to compare 2 qbs with completely different rules and circumstances is unfair.
Dan Marinos 1984 season is hands down the best single season of all time. 5000 yards, 48tds, without the pass friendly rules and protections of today's game.
Keep in mind, Elway is the most sacked qb in NFL history too....even though he was one of the most mobile qbs in history......
I rest my case
Peyton Manning blows Elway out of the water
<< <i>Im not even reading this thread, no need too because its real simple....
Peyton Manning blows Elway out of the water >>
Put Manning on the 1986 bronco team....they don't even make the playoffs...He probably does not make it through the season.
Elway - sacked 516 times
Manning - sacked 270 times
I think we can all agree Elway was 20x more mobile, and able to avoid the pass rush than Manning.....These numbers should tell you something.
<< <i>Elway is one of the all time great sin his own right. But I always disliked him for dissing Baltimore out of college and trying to call his own shots. Punk move that is so opposite of Mannings style >>
I sort of jumped on that bandwagon as well. I was born at Stanford Hospital and grew up in the area. Once I joined the Air Force and started my travels, I ended up at Warfield ANG in1983 (TDY), just after Elway refused to play for Baltimore. I went to that game and it was crazy loud. There where posters all over the stadium bashing Elway and the game was loud. Someone had a large poster of Elway tapped on a stadium wall that said, "spit on me". It was pretty gross by halftime. He was eventually boo'd out of the stadium. I'll never forget and I'm sure he won't either. While in Denver in 2010-2011 I went to his Steakhouse and had one great steak. A bit pricey but a fun experience. >>
I assume you are talking about Peyton when you say not "Mannings style" punk move, because Eli and Daddy Archie did just that and dissed the Chargers when San Diego had the #1 pick and were going to take Eli when Eli and daddy Archie both publicly stated Eli would not play for the Chargers if they drafted him.
1. Unitas
2. Montana
"BIG GAP"
3. Not Manning I've watched him blow it in big games too many times... he's in the bottom half of the top ten
<< <i>Lets not forget how often Manning chokes in the playoffs guys... brady pooped on him how many times?? He will choke again tonight, I got money on it! >>
The funny part about that is if you look at Brady's career in reverse, people would be saying he is the guy who couldn't win the big one. No titles in last decade, and a string of years coming up short.
Personally, I'd take Manning over Elway, but it's very difficult to compare any QB playing today with Elway.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Lets not forget how often Manning chokes in the playoffs guys... brady pooped on him how many times?? He will choke again tonight, I got money on it! >>
Brady is 2-2 vs Manning in playoffs all time.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Manning has only one ring with all those stacked offenses he enjoyed in Indy. >>
This is the line that always makes me laugh. Do you mean the stacked offense that Manning created??
Marvin Harrison was a solid, hard working, blue collar pro. He was also 5'11" and 180 pounds soaking wet. He piled up great career numbers BECAUSE of Manning. Let's not pretend Manning has always had physical freaks like Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss, Andre Johnson, etc. And let's not pretend that the freak athletes that were Dallas Clark or Brandon Stokely is why Manning has put up good stats. Edge was a beast, but again, no team was stacking the box BECAUSE of Manning.
Quite frankly, the difference between Manning and Brady in the playoffs seems to be defense and a kicker. Vinitieri was knocking down kicks in a blizzard while Vanderjagt was gagging 40 yarders wide right.
I'd take Manning before Elway, and damn near everyone else too.
Shawn
<< <i>Elway better get his uniform on....gonna need him to pull off one of his miracle comebacks for Denver to win..... >>
He does know all about Super Bowl blowouts..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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<< <i>Elway better get his uniform on....gonna need him to pull off one of his miracle comebacks for Denver to win..... >>
He does know all about Super Bowl blowouts.. >>
At least he had an excuse.....no team around him.
What's peytons excuse for this one?
Elway had to pull out 5 4th quarter comebacks just to get there.
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What's peytons excuse for this one? >>
No defense. And the Hawks were firing on all cylinders. They played great!!!
Would take Manning in a heart beat over Elway, and yes I'm old enough to have seen them both. Elway scrambling is a moot point in this comparison.
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
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What's peytons excuse for this one? >>
No defense. And the Hawks were firing on all cylinders. They played great!!!
Would take Manning in a heart beat over Elway, and yes I'm old enough to have seen them both. Elway scrambling is a moot point in this comparison. >>
Moot point? He was 3x more mobile than Manning, but sacked nearly 250 more times. Look at what Elway did with a decent team around him.....2 Super Bowl titles at age 37 and 38.
You think Manning puts up the numbers he has in the 80s, with those rules, those headhunting linebackers, and safeties like Ronnie Lott trying to kill his receivers......that's funny.
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What's peytons excuse for this one? >>
No defense. And the Hawks were firing on all cylinders. They played great!!!
Would take Manning in a heart beat over Elway, and yes I'm old enough to have seen them both. Elway scrambling is a moot point in this comparison. >>
Moot point? He was 3x more mobile than Manning, but sacked nearly 250 more times. Look at what Elway did with a decent team around him.....2 Super Bowl titles at age 37 and 38.
You think Manning puts up the numbers he has in the 80s, with those rules, those headhunting linebackers, and safeties like Ronnie Lott trying to kill his receivers......that's funny. >>
What makes you think Manning wouldn't be able to adapt to the rules of the game back then? He is playing in the game as it is played in his time. Just because the rules were different back then doesn't mean today's players would not have been able to adapt to those rules. The talent level is there regardless of the era in which you are playing. Guys that played linebacker back then are smaller than some cornerbacks today, and lineman were smaller than linebackers today. So it's all relevant to the era, which is why it's not realistic to make those assumptions.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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What's peytons excuse for this one? >>
No defense. And the Hawks were firing on all cylinders. They played great!!!
Would take Manning in a heart beat over Elway, and yes I'm old enough to have seen them both. Elway scrambling is a moot point in this comparison. >>
Moot point? He was 3x more mobile than Manning, but sacked nearly 250 more times. Look at what Elway did with a decent team around him.....2 Super Bowl titles at age 37 and 38.
You think Manning puts up the numbers he has in the 80s, with those rules, those headhunting linebackers, and safeties like Ronnie Lott trying to kill his receivers......that's funny. >>
What makes you think Manning wouldn't be able to adapt to the rules of the game back then? He is playing in the game as it is played in his time. Just because the rules were different back thenm doesn't mean today's players would not have been able to adapt to those rules. The talent level is there regardless of the era win which you are playing. Guys that played linebacker back then are smaller than some cornerbacks today, >>
It's pretty obvious how he would have fared against defenses like that....see Super Bowl 48, and the New England Patriots 98-05.
But I'll bite...how about Elway in today's pass happy league, with his arm, athletic ability, a world class offense around him, and rules that won't let a defensive player touch him?
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What's peytons excuse for this one? >>
No defense. And the Hawks were firing on all cylinders. They played great!!!
Would take Manning in a heart beat over Elway, and yes I'm old enough to have seen them both. Elway scrambling is a moot point in this comparison. >>
Moot point? He was 3x more mobile than Manning, but sacked nearly 250 more times. Look at what Elway did with a decent team around him.....2 Super Bowl titles at age 37 and 38.
You think Manning puts up the numbers he has in the 80s, with those rules, those headhunting linebackers, and safeties like Ronnie Lott trying to kill his receivers......that's funny. >>
What makes you think Manning wouldn't be able to adapt to the rules of the game back then? He is playing in the game as it is played in his time. Just because the rules were different back thenm doesn't mean today's players would not have been able to adapt to those rules. The talent level is there regardless of the era win which you are playing. Guys that played linebacker back then are smaller than some cornerbacks today, >>
It's pretty obvious how he would have fared against defenses like that....see Super Bowl 48, and the New England Patriots 98-05.
But I'll bite...how about Elway in today's pass happy league, with his arm, athletic ability, a world class offense around him, and rules that won't let a defensive player touch him? >>
Well, if he had the benefit of playing with a back putting up arguably the greatest stats over a two-year span in NFL history with a top 10 defense to boot, he's probably do quite well, just as he did in '97 and '98.
Had he not had those benefits, see Super Bowls XXI, XXII and XXIII--during which the Broncos were outscored 136-40 and Elway threw 2 TDs and 6 INTs. His 19.4 QB rating in SB XXIII may even be a record low (I'm not sure offhand).
Edit to add: I will say, though, that there is no question that passing yardage is easier to compile in today's game than it was 30 years ago, but whether that necessarily translates into team success is another matter. After all, the opposing QB has that same benefit, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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What's peytons excuse for this one? >>
No defense. And the Hawks were firing on all cylinders. They played great!!!
Would take Manning in a heart beat over Elway, and yes I'm old enough to have seen them both. Elway scrambling is a moot point in this comparison. >>
Moot point? He was 3x more mobile than Manning, but sacked nearly 250 more times. Look at what Elway did with a decent team around him.....2 Super Bowl titles at age 37 and 38.
You think Manning puts up the numbers he has in the 80s, with those rules, those headhunting linebackers, and safeties like Ronnie Lott trying to kill his receivers......that's funny. >>
What makes you think Manning wouldn't be able to adapt to the rules of the game back then? He is playing in the game as it is played in his time. Just because the rules were different back thenm doesn't mean today's players would not have been able to adapt to those rules. The talent level is there regardless of the era win which you are playing. Guys that played linebacker back then are smaller than some cornerbacks today, >>
It's pretty obvious how he would have fared against defenses like that....see Super Bowl 48, and the New England Patriots 98-05.
But I'll bite...how about Elway in today's pass happy league, with his arm, athletic ability, a world class offense around him, and rules that won't let a defensive player touch him? >>
Well, if he had the benefit of playing with a back putting up arguably the greatest stats over a two-year span in NFL history with a top 10 defense to boot, he's probably do quite well, just as he did in '97 and '98.
Had he not had those benefits, see Super Bowls XXI, XXII and XXIII--during which the Broncos were outscored 136-40 and Elway threw 2 TDs and 6 INTs. His 19.4 QB rating in SB XXIII may even be a record low (I'm not sure offhand). >>
Sigh....Denver does not even play in those 3 Super bowls without Elway carrying them to those Super Bowls. Put Manning on THOSE teams in THAT era.....it would be UGLY.
Now look at what Manning did do....With a consistent 1000 yard rusher, Marvin Harrison, and an offensive line who did not let him get sacked in a pass friendly league.....no Super Bowls until his 8th year.
My point- Manning has always had talent around him, is 1-2 in the Super Bowl and 11-12 in the playoffs.
Elway is 14-7 in the playoffs, 2-3 in the Super Bowls and only had TD for 3 years.