Greg Maddux's debut ticket

maddux69

Back in 1986 the Cubs played the Astros on September 2, 1986 and the game went into extra innings. The game continued into the top of the 15th when play was suspended. Since back then, the Cubs played all day games at Wrigley and the darkness forced game to be suspended. The game was resumed on September 3, 1986 with Steve Trout taking the mound for the Cubs, he lasted two innings. Dave Gumpert then took over in the 17th and gave up 3 runs to the Astros, the Cubs were able to recover in the bottom of the inning with a Keith Moreland 3 run HR. On to the 18th where Greg Maddux takes the mound for the Cubs, he actually made his debut as a pinch runner in the 17th. With one out, Billy Hatcher hits a one run HR to give the Astros the lead. The Cubs couldn't do anything in the bottom of the inning and Greg Maddux gets an L in his Major League pitching debut.

Now I have been looking for this ticket and I am not sure what I should be looking for exactly. There have been 4 authenticated by PSA and they show his debut as September 3, 1986. Would the Cubs have re-issued tickets to this game or honored the stubs from the September 2 game? Below is a link to the game.

Chicago vs. Houston Sept 2, 1986

tennesseebanker

I don't know for sure, but I would think that the Sept. 2 tickets would be honored by turning them in at the ticket office for a Sept. 3rd ticket. Therefore making the Sept 3rd ticket Maddux's actual debut.

mlbfan2

I don't know what the deal is, but I'd rather have a September 2nd ticket. The pop report says the score for Maddux's debut was Astros 8, Cubs 2, which doesn't make much sense since that was the score for the game on the 3rd that Maddux didn't even play in.

maddux69

<< <i>I don't know what the deal is, but I'd rather have a September 2nd ticket. The pop report says the score for Maddux's debut was Astros 8, Cubs 2, which doesn't make much sense since that was the score for the game on the 3rd that Maddux didn't even play in. >>



That brings up a good point, did they honor the Sept 2 ticket for the remainder of the game then empty the stands for the regularly scheduled game? And if they re-issued the tickets would it signify the makeup game from the previous night, maybe September 3- Game 1?

tennesseebanker

You could try to go to the Cubs web site and searching ticket info for gamed that are re-scheduled. I would bet the policy hasn't changed since then.

coachnip13

I think there's about a .00001 percent chance that they re-issued tickets or cleared the stands between games. The game was set to finish at 12:05 PM with the regularly scheduled game at 1:20 PM. With the darkness issues, plus not knowing how long it would take to finish, I don't think they would risk needing an hour or more to clear the place and start the logistics over from scratch.

In looking at other suspended-game articles, it appears as though the standard policy is to treat the tickets like rain checks, allowing fans to exchange them for future tickets.

If I were a betting man, Greg Maddux' debut is officially represented by the Sept. 3 regular ticket.

tennesseebanker

<< <i>I think there's about a .00001 percent chance that they re-issued tickets or cleared the stands between games. The game was set to finish at 12:05 PM with the regularly scheduled game at 1:20 PM. With the darkness issues, plus not knowing how long it would take to finish, I don't think they would risk needing an hour or more to clear the place and start the logistics over from scratch.

In looking at other suspended-game articles, it appears as though the standard policy is to treat the tickets like rain checks, allowing fans to exchange them for future tickets.

If I were a betting man, Greg Maddux' debut is officially represented by the Sept. 3 regular ticket. >>



This is what I was trying to say. I think the Sept 2 tickets "could have" been exchanged for a Sept. 3 ticket if some one from the prior game had wanted to exchange their ticket the next day. If not they most likely exchanged them for games later in the season.

maddux69

One has surfaced, though it is dated September 2nd and not September 3rd which was the date of his "true" debut. With so many questions raised, I decided to stay away from this auction. I am sure that when people see the final bid price that there will be some searching of albums and storage areas in search of one.

PSA 5 Debut Ticket Auction

akuracy503

Wow! Doesn't surprise me though, tickets are difficult to come by. You don't get many chances

Estil

Indeed, I mean who back then would've bothered to save something like that (as well as not even had redeemed it for the make-up game later?)...after all back then who had ever heard of this Greg Maddux guy?

mccardguy1

I worked for the team then and would have been at that game. Since one of my positions was in crowd management I can tell you, without a doubt, we would have never cleared the stands between the game that was resumed and the start of the regularly scheduled game. Since a game was actually played on the 2nd (actually, nearly two games were played LOL) they would not have honored the stubs for the next day. Any ticket holder for September 3rd would actually be the one who saw the debut of Greg Maddux. The September 2nd ticket stubs would not have been honored for entry on the 3rd.

Since this game on the 2nd was an "official" game there would have been no reason to honor rainchecks. The Cubs DID NOT reissue any tickets for the September 2nd game. They just did not do this at all.

I hope this helps.

MLRMLEO

With what mrcardguy1 said, I would think the ticket for the 3rd would be Maddux debut ticket. Its like watching a shorten double header. PSA may have missed this one!

jradke4

to me his true debut ticket is the 9/2 ticket. the 9/3 ticket was for that game that started on 9/3.

if the game was played elsewhere, and the game went past midnight, would anyone say that the ticket for the 9/3 game is his debut. no, he did not play in the game that started on 9/3.

jradke4

<< <i>With what mrcardguy1 said, I would think the ticket for the 3rd would be Maddux debut ticket. Its like watching a shorten double header. PSA may have missed this one! >>



but he never played in the game that the 9/3 ticket really represents. what if someone had hit a milestone stat in the 9/3 game. would both be represented by the same ticket? just because you might have "needed" the 9/3 ticket to actually see Maddux make his debut to me doesn't make the 9/3 ticket the ticket. the ticket that correlates to the game he entered and his stats are a part of in the box score is the game that started on 9/2. he might have physically made his debut on 9/3, but it would be no different than if that was because the game went past midnight.

jradke4

<< <i>I don't know what the deal is, but I'd rather have a September 2nd ticket. The pop report says the score for Maddux's debut was Astros 8, Cubs 2, which doesn't make much sense since that was the score for the game on the 3rd that Maddux didn't even play in. >>



thats probably because the PSA cert department just did a wiki search on what day did Maddux make his debut, not what game it was really from. to me i would want the 9/2 ticket because that is what goes with the box score for the game.

mccardguy1

I might be in the minority on this one but I want a ticket for the actual date the player made his first appearance. True, Maddux made his debut in the game dated the day before but his first real major league appearance was on the 3rd. It's a catch 22 situation that can only be remedied by having stubs from both games!

jradke4

<< <i>I might be in the minority on this one but I want a ticket for the actual date the player made his first appearance. True, Maddux made his debut in the game dated the day before but his first real major league appearance was on the 3rd. It's a catch 22 situation that can only be remedied by having stubs from both games! >>



so the game was postponed due to no lights a Wrigley and the game went past midnight and Maddux entered after midnight you would want the ticket from the next game?

maddux69

<< <i>

<< <i>I might be in the minority on this one but I want a ticket for the actual date the player made his first appearance. True, Maddux made his debut in the game dated the day before but his first real major league appearance was on the 3rd. It's a catch 22 situation that can only be remedied by having stubs from both games! >>



so the game was postponed due to no lights a Wrigley and the game went past midnight and Maddux entered after midnight you would want the ticket from the next game? >>



The main thing to bring home from all of this is that only those with the 9/3 ticket would be able to see Greg Maddux take the mound for his MLB debut. Those with the 9/2 would have the ticket for the official game, but would not see him in action.

akuracy503

His first pitch, his first strikeout to me is his actual debut and significant date.

akuracy503

You got to be cautious with auction houses, they convince you with the descriptions and many times its like reading a legal statement. Its convincing but misleading at the same time. If the item can't speak for itself then most times I stay away based on items that need convincing descriptions.

akuracy503

Either way I'm very impressed with the hammer price of the ticket. People are starting to see the importance of them.

MLRMLEO

If the 9-2 ticket got you into the game the next day then I would say fine. His major league debut was on the 3rd and only the tickets for the 3rd saw the event. Yes he is in the box score for the 2nd but those tickets did not see his major league debut. The 9-3 ticket represents everything that happened in that ballpark that day. The 9-2 ticket ended in a technical tie and Maddux did not hit the field till the next day.

MLRMLEO

Akuracy503, I know you collect older tickets, do you have a 1913 Boston ticket and is the back blank or with advertisement. I ask because the 1913 ticket in the same auction graded by SGC has a blank back and it looked odd. I saw it at Chantilly VA in person and the blank back made me wonder.

akuracy503

<< <i>Akuracy503, I know you collect older tickets, do you have a 1913 Boston ticket and is the back blank or with advertisement. I ask because the 1913 ticket in the same auction graded by SGC has a blank back and it looked odd. I saw it at Chantilly VA in person and the blank back made me wonder. >>



MrMLeo, I havent had a chance to see the 1913 Boston Ticket, was it in the same Huggins auction? WS ticket?

The 1912 ticket I own is a regular season ticket with a "Tivoli" beer company advertisement on the back.

Here is one for example:




I'll take a look at the 1913 ticket you are referencing and let you know what I think.

akuracy503

<< <i>Akuracy503, I know you collect older tickets, do you have a 1913 Boston ticket and is the back blank or with advertisement. I ask because the 1913 ticket in the same auction graded by SGC has a blank back and it looked odd. I saw it at Chantilly VA in person and the blank back made me wonder. >>



I just looked it up, looks to be a "Boston American League" regular season ticket, I believe this very ticket was offered on eBay several months back via a consignment dealer.
This ticket was obviously a different design from the 1912 season. As for the blank back, that was fairly common with a lot of the pre 1920 tickets, after 1919 you could see a lot of tickets with the "No Gambling Allowed" statement on the back.

Advertisements on the backs of tickets were actually few and far between, the red sox may have been onto something revolutionary in 1912. Not sure ads went beyond that year though...



There are so very few examples of tickets available to make a real assessment on variations.
printed backs vs no print backs.
Season booklet ticket vs regular box office ticket.

I trust PSA and or SGC keeps a database record with detailed photos to catalog them.

MLRMLEO

Thanks for looking, I have a 1915 and its has advertisement, the 13 Just looked odd.

brad31

I was at a couple of games suspended for darkness. As long as the game went 5 innings before being suspended (and was long enough to be an MLB official game) you were not granted a ticket or admission to the finish of the game. The ticket holder for the date that the game would be finished had the option of coming early and watching the game finish or not. Sometimes the suspended game would go extra innings and last past the start of the original game. There was no clearing of the park between the finish of the suspended game and the start of the scheduled game. Often times the game was finished the next time the team came into town months later if it was the last game in the series.

Only people with a September 3 ticket actually were able to see Maddux pitch in his debut. I would get the ticket to both games and keep them together as the debut. Then you have the date of the official game and the ticket that would have let you see him pitch. But to me the September 2 ticket is not the debut ticket - since that ticket did not allow you to see Maddux pitch.

On a side note:

I remember being at a game in 1988 after the lights were ready (the Cubs had a workout night under the lights) but before the big scheduled first night game. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-07-17/sports/8801150614_1_tracy-woodson-cubs-moyer

The rain essentially stopped in the second storm but they called it anyway because they didn't want to play under the lights but the umps called it a rainout. That tie game then restarted from the beginning under rainout rules and was not actually suspended. If the umps had called the players on the field and then called it because nobody could see - the game would have continued from that point. But since they came onto the field and waved it off it was a rainout and started over. Even though that game didn't count I saw 5 innings of ball and it was not a raincheck.

maddux69

A Sept 3 ticket just surfaced in the recent Heritage auction, sold for $510($609 with buyers premium). The ticket reflects "Sept 3 Greg Maddux Debut" though it is not listed as such on the population report. I was in on the bidding and gave it a healthy try, but it fell well short!

Debut Ticket- Sept 3 PSA 10

maddux69

Similar scenario, this is why September 3, 1986 should be considered his true debut ticket.

maddux69

Revisiting this thread as I never updated that I now own a ticket from his debut. I picked up a pair of tickets, one from September 2nd and the other from September 3rd, a while back on eBay. I had the September 2nd graded and sold it through pwcc for what I bought the pair for so that was a nice win. The September 3rd has some writing on the back from a marker and I decided to wait until I send a ticket order in for just authentic grading. Even though it is in nice condition minus the writing, authentic may be the way to go. Kicking myself for not going after the one that sold through heritage as mentioned above. I took a look back at the listing and noticed that they had the description wrong. They said that he “never toed the rubber” which is incorrect. He was brought in as a pinch runner and came on in relief the next inning.

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-collectibles/tickets/1986-greg-maddux-debut-full-ticket-psa-gem-mint-10/a/7135-83473.s#auction-description