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Opinions needed: 1869-S 25c, the newest addition to my 1869 year set

Hi all, I'm looking for feedback on this coin. I'm doing an 1869 year registry set. Any/all input it welcome, and appreciated image

I'm learning that the 1869-S quarter is a tough quarter to find in higher grades, and at that, the price goes up a lot (2x or more) in each step up. My thinking with this coin is for it to be a decent mid-grade example until a nicer higher grade example comes up for sale/becomes available.

I bought this coins because it was available, and something about it caught my eye. It is not in a PCGS holder. I don't want to tell you any more than than because I'm afraid I'll bias you (unless by this statement alone you are already biased).

If you guys don't like it, think it's unattractive or a problem coin, I'm not offended, it just means that I need to keep looking for a decent mid-grade example.

Thanks!

/mdg.

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Comments

  • ebaybuyerebaybuyer Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭
    thats an early die state, no obverse crack, but what is going on the the obverse denticles ?
    regardless of how many posts I have, I don't consider myself an "expert" at anything
  • rheddenrhedden Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the "s" mint quarters of the era, it's problem-free and attractive. It's better than the one in my set. Very few quarters from this era have original skin and no major damage. A few contact marks are nothing to worry about. The 1869-s is not a really rare coin in this series, and VF-XF coins can be located now and then. However, anything grading strictly AU or higher would be a real find.

  • NicNic Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd rather have a more original coin.

    K
  • STONESTONE Posts: 15,275
    I find it more than acceptable and nice for what it is
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    That coin could be completely original other than some light "shiners" from jostling around in a box of coins over the years. I agree this date is not that terribly hard to find in circ condition. Even AU's are not prohibitive. The finest
    I've owned is a MS65. It's a 3rd tier pre-1874 S mint in AU grade (along with the 65-s, 68-s, 73-s). While it's a lot rarer than a 1901-s or 1916 quarter it's just scarce among seated quarters. And because all the other S mints
    are so tough, the less tougher ones have been dragged along in price on their coat tails....not that I agree with it.

    I like this 69-s. But also don't know why it seems to have planchet striations...something you almost never see on the S mints....but somewhat more common on the Philly coins. 69-s is another date (like most S's) that seem
    to come cleaned and messed with. Not so this one. The flat spot on Miss Liberty's knee is quite apparent - but that's half strike and half wear. My MS65 example had that same issue that made it look "rubbed" even though it had
    100% screaming luster. I'd bet there are some AU's out there that really are fully UNC.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    Looks decent to me. Highest grade I ever had was a VG8, shameful in comparison.
  • Billet7Billet7 Posts: 4,923 ✭✭✭
    BTW, I do feel that its been cleaned at some point, but still very nice.
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭
    Hey, thanks a million for everyone's feedback, it's truly a gift image

    The reeding is more of a shadow than planchet issue...sorry, it's in a holder and one of the "prongs" is casting a shadow over that area so the picture makes it seem something it isn't. The reeding is a little weaker in that area (Obverse and Reverse) so I wonder if it was a striking issue?

    As far as circulated 1869-S quarters coins I've seen (and it has not been that many to be fair), all in holders, it wasn't whether or not they've been cleaned at some point but how badly image Someone else pointed out that for whatever reason the S mint seated lib quarters from that era were widely cleaned (who knows why)? One of the reasons this look jumped out at me is because while it is clearly a circulated coin, it has a nice circulated look to it (in comparison to other 69-S quarters I've seen), with trace luster still immediately evident, and a good amount of detail. My thoughts were that this should fill this hole in my collection nicely for a while, until I identify something higher grade that "speaks" to me image

    And as far as speaking to me, the below coins was my other big addition (it is in a PCGS holder). Wow, I had no idea how scarce 69-S halves are. Of course some of you know, but I didn't realize that in total (all grades) PCGS has only slabbed 83 coins. There are only 18 coin in all MS grades, 8 in AU58 and 9 in AU55. So, in AU55 and higher there have only been 35 coins total that have ben graded. Given some probably have been cracked, I'd venture to say that there are probably 30 or less PCGS 69-S halves in AU55 and higher. Crazy, talk about living proof of the difference between absolute scarcity and relative scarcity.

    Anyhow, while not even remotely close to being one of the most expensive coins I've ever owned, this is probably one of the most (PCGS POP) scarce coins I've ever had the privilege of owning, and still I paid a good bit of money for it if you look at PCGS price guide as a reference point.

    image
  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really like that half. Wonderful.
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,625 ✭✭✭✭

    Grade posted, the quarter crossed at grade. It was graded NGC XF40, and it crossed to PCGS XF40. In hand the coin is nice, with trace luster showing, and I thought it was solid XF40, I'm glad PCGS agreed.

    In general, went 3 for 3 on crossovers... thought I'd share

    Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
    29375048 5475 1869-S 25C USA XF40
    29375049 38063 1983 1C Doubled Die Reverse USA MS66RD
    29375050 6325 1869 50C USA XF45

  • LucanusLucanus Posts: 424 ✭✭✭
    While it's a lot rarer than a 1901-s or 1916 quarter it's just scarce among seated quarters.

    Certainly true for the 1916 standing liberty quarter but not the 01-S barber quarter. The PCGS pops for the 01-S in VF and XF are considerably lower than the 69-S in the same grades.
    And although the 01-S quarter has five more examples graded AU than the 69-S, many of these are likely resubmissions because of the high price of the 01-S.

    Doug
  • ManorcourtmanManorcourtman Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭
    Congrats!! I bet you're happy!! Good job!
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>While it's a lot rarer than a 1901-s or 1916 quarter it's just scarce among seated quarters.

    Certainly true for the 1916 standing liberty quarter but not the 01-S barber quarter. The PCGS pops for the 01-S in VF and XF are considerably lower than the 69-S in the same grades.
    And although the 01-S quarter has five more examples graded AU than the 69-S, many of these are likely resubmissions because of the high price of the 01-S.
    Doug >>



    My statement didn't limit the pops to only VF or XF coins. When all grades are considered (including the thousands of them in Fair-VG) the 1901-s is a far cry in rarity vs. a 69-s quarter. The only thing that compensates for
    say 3000-5000 1901-s quarters vs 300-500 or so 1869-s quarters is that the demand for 01-s quarters is probably 20-30X greater. In grades of VF-XF the 1901-s probably wins the race though it wouldn't surprise me
    if it's a horse race. The mintages of the 2 coins are nearly identical at 72K vs. 76K. The survival rate of a 1901-s with all grades considered is probably around 5% while a 69-s is approx 0.5%.

    One must also consider that the 69-s quarter is no rarity in circ grades so there is little reason to slab any coin graded AG-AU. If you want top dollar when selling it then maybe that's when you bust up your set and have
    them all graded individually to max out. Nearly every 1901-s quarter in Fine-AU needs to be slabbed....only a fraction of 69-s quarters could say that. They just aren't faked enough to merit that extra level of authentication. If
    anything, 69-s quarters have had the S mint mark ground off to try to pass off the rarer 69 Philly coin in circ condition. For the same reason the 69-s half has no real reason to be submitted to the TPG's as very few have been
    faked and most collectors of these know exactly what they have. So I would expect the pops of the 69-s half to appear to be relatively low compared to say a 70-cc or 42-0 sd half. PCGS pops aren't very useful when
    comparing key date circ seated quarters to only scarce or common dates....though in unc grades the comparisons are much more useful.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • SAM5969SAM5969 Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭
    Nice coins MercDimeGuy

    Road Runner - I have always found your logic and commentary to be succinct and presented extremely well. As usual, I am in full agreement with your analysis

    I found similar results as I just did a short study on comparing the rarity of the 1896-O Half to the 1909-O Quarter. While it is off-topic to this specific thread, the concept and the results are similar to the results for the SLQ pops and analysis so I will share my findings and conclusion:


    * Both coins are nearly impossible to find in "problem free" AU holders
    * The 1896-O is even more difficult to find in MS whereas the 1909-O Quarter is actually somewhat available in MS
    * 1896-O half at NGC: 31 total graded XF or finer (only 3 are XF) .. 1 is XF40; 2 XF45, 1 AU50, 2 AU53, 5 AU55 and 3 AU58 with 17 finer. Only 11 in all AU grades with 17 in MS finer)
    * 1896-O half at PCGS: 71 total graded XF or finer (26 are XF) .. 18 are XF40; 8 XF45, 6 AU50, 4 AU53, 8 AU55 and 3 AU58 with 24 finer. Only 21 in all AU grades with 24 in MS (finer)
    * 1909-O qtr. at NGC: 50 total graded XF or finer (only 6 are XF/AU) .. 1 is XF40; 0 XF45, 1 AU50, 0 AU53, 0 AU55 and 4 AU58 with 44 finer. Only 6 in XF & AU combined! 44 in MS
    * 1909-O qtr. at PCGS: 66 total graded XF or finer (only 3 are XF) .. 4 is XF40; 6 XF45, 3 AU50, 0 AU53, 2 AU55 and 3 AU58 with 48 finer. Only 11 in all AU grades with 48 in MS

    * There are more than twice as many quarters that are graded "finer" than AU58 than halves at Both Services (92 quarters graded finer than AU58 vs. 41 half dollars graded finer than AU58).
    * There are 116 Quarters graded XF-MS at Both Services combined, of which 92 are graded MS, 13 are AU, and 11 are XF
    * There are 102 Half Dollars graded XF-MS at Both Services combined, of which 41 are graded MS, 32 are AU, and 29 are XF

    Clearly the Quarter is far scarcer in specific grades of XF and AU but not in overall rarity of all grades XF (or AU) and finer (MS)

    1896-O half NGC. 31 Total graded XF- MS
    40-1
    45-2
    50-1
    53-2
    55-6 (one was my original purchase so now 5, {maximum obviously}.. This NGC-55 has since been graded AU58 at PCGS)
    58-3
    60-66: 17

    1896-O half at PCGS: 71 graded XF-MS67 (23 are XF )
    40-18
    45-8
    50-6
    53-4
    55-8
    58-3
    60-67: 24

    1909-O quarter at NGC
    40-1
    45-0
    50-1
    53-0
    55-0
    58-4
    60-67: 44

    1909-O quarter at PCGS. 66 total graded XF-MS (48 are Unc.)
    40-4
    45-6
    50-3
    53-zero
    55-2
    58-3
    60-66: 48

    Both are extremely difficult to locate in problem free slabs in AU or MS with the 1896-O Half being much tougher in AU58-MS whereas the 1909-O Quarter is very scarce in AU but less than scarce in MS. I also believe the slabbing of these coins hasn't been "en vogue" long enough for the jury to declare a true verdict yet. There has been a tremendous short term run-up in price on the quarter - it was only a couple to a few years ago where a 1909-O XF could be had for $400-500 and an AU (if one could find one) could be had for $1000 or less (today's prices are more like $2000-$2500 for an XF and $3500-$5000 for an AU). The half dollar has had a slower and steadier price escalation, although the past year it has also gone up quicker than previously .. the Half dollar still shows a much longer foundation of support for the decades. Yes, David Lawrence (John Feigenbaum) has declared the extreme rarity that is the 1909-O quarter but the lesser demand the quarter has received vs. the half dollar also contributed to the lower prices. And with so few examples available, any small increase in demand will cause prices to soar quickly.

    In conclusion, if one is seeking out specifically an XF or AU coin and has no interest in an MS coin, the quarter proves to be the scarcer coin, although I again footnote this with insufficient time for data accumulation due to the slabbing of these coins being predominantly popular in only recent years. I believe more time is needed to prove this (or disprove this). If one is seeking out the range of XF (or AU) or finer, and perhaps prefers an MS grade, the half dollar is by far the tougher coin. While they have similar numbers in AU, I give the nod to the half dollar as it is significantly more scarce in MS resulting in the number of available overall pieces to be less than half of the quarter. It is all about the "how many finer?" to me, that puts the half dollar in a different category.
    I also believe the demand for the half dollar outweighs the quarter significantly putting further upward pressure on the prices. In fact I believe 5-10 years from now, the half dollar will have increased by as much as 100% or more from the current standings whereas the 1909-O Quarter could be potentially more volatile due to the lesser demand coupled with the fact there are many more in MS (finer) available to satisfy collectors. The 1901-S Quarter also had a significant recent run up in the lower grades, but this coin in particular, seems to have found it's price-point in the upper middle grades and in my opinion, will continue to remain steady as this coin has now for about 10 years in grades of VF-AU


    PS - One Last data chart (Figures taken from Coin World Trends and just used for one comparison tool ... Yes.. I know as well as anyone these coins aren't priced through any guide but these numbers are real world numbers, not counting one-offs, etc.)

    1909-O Quarter AU-58 in 2007 issue = $800
    1909-O Quarter AU-58 in 2014 issue = $2,750
    Current selling price is approx. = $4,000-$5,000
    My prediction 5 years from now = $5,000-$6,000


    1901-S Quarter F-12 in 2007 issue = $15,000
    1901-S Quarter F-12 in 2014 issue = $15,000
    Current selling price is approx. = $15,000
    My Prediction 5 years from now = $15,000


    1896-O Half AU-58 in 2007 issue = $1,100
    1896-O Half AU-58 in 2014 issue = $3,250
    Current selling price is approx. = $10,000
    My Prediction 5 years from now = $15,000-$18,000

    I am sorry to have dragged Barbers into this thread and hope so as to not cross the line - I found the comparison strikingly similar and the thoughts paralleled the topic at hand. I considered this to be a relative and viable comparison to the topics mentioned within the thread regarding the rarity of the semi key S mint SLQ

    Oh - this reply could fit nicely in the "What should we be buying thread" .. I have "dusted off my crystal ball" and declare AU/MS 1896-O Half Dollars to be both satisfying from a collector standpoint and profitable from the investment standpoint image . I have spoken image
    imageimage

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