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trouble @ Tulving

PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Thing are not looking so good for this company.

Be careful when ordering on line, this could happen again with any company.

With today great economy
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


Comments

  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ouch!!!!!!!

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hannes Tulving for Fed Chairman !!!!
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's funny how history seems to repeat itself.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,730 ✭✭✭✭✭
    there are ways to hedge

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • UnknownUnknown
    This content has been removed.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "People" image will order from the ...CHEAPEST... source. EVERY TIME
    Even if the merchant is a proven sleazebag.
    Just so it's CHEAPER.

    Such is the nature of the bullion buyer.

    ANYTHING for ....cheap.
  • PTVETTERPTVETTER Posts: 6,018 ✭✭✭✭✭
    topstuf, I have to disagree with you to a point.

    As a B&M shop owner I have customers that are loyal and know something are lower priced.

    One in fact seem to know very well.

    this costomer like the Idea when he orders bullion in comes in on time or before expected.

    "Good customer service is worth something" and people will pay a little extra for that!
    Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211


  • LanceNewmanOCCLanceNewmanOCC Posts: 19,999 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>ANYTHING for ....cheap. >>



    and some people will pay more for tons of other non-numismatic related items without shopping around. makes ya wonder what is the true value of anything is, eh? and our perception of our money and the stuff we trade it for.

    i won't even get started on the subject of those with other people's money in large amounts and when they abscond it. ><
    .

    <--- look what's behind the mask! - cool link 1/NO ~ 2/NNP ~ 3/NNC ~ 4/CF ~ 5/PG ~ 6/Cert ~ 7/NGC 7a/NGC pop~ 8/NGCF ~ 9/HA archives ~ 10/PM ~ 11/NM ~ 12/ANACS cert ~ 13/ANACS pop - report fakes 1/ACEF ~ report fakes/thefts 1/NCIS - Numi-Classes SS ~ Bass ~ Transcribed Docs NNP - clashed coins - error training - V V mm styles -

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,730 ✭✭✭✭✭
    "People" weren't having trouble in the intermediate time.


    Never boguth from them but had considered it. Did not know of the past troubles, but heard good feedback on the PM forum.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,619 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>"People" weren't having trouble in the intermediate time.


    Never boguth from them but had considered it. Did not know of the past troubles, but heard good feedback on the PM forum. >>


    His past problem was many years ago as a rare coin dealer and probably also failed for similar problems (bottom falling out in the market?) While customer friendliness was not his strong point, his bullion business was very reputable for many years. I purchased over $100K from him over the last six years with no hint of a problem. I'm guessing with the low profit margin, the decline in the market did him in.

    Most anyone can be successful in a rising market. A falling market is better survived by those prepared for it.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • gypsyleagypsylea Posts: 193 ✭✭
    There are still a few dealers around from back in the day when promotion of coins as investment vehicles was all the rage who could have gotten hammered just as easily as Tulving. I'm not defending the guy, he was one of the one more aggressive promoters out there, so maybe he deserved the attention.

    As far as his current problems go, his business plan always looked a little dicey to me. Hedge contracts aren't free, and his margins looked so skinny that the temptation to swim without a bathing suit must have been strong. As Warren Buffet has said, when the tide goes out, you learn who is naked.
    Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,730 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you sold 6 months ago at $23 and it's $20 now

    That means I don't understand ... I don't get it.
    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • gypsyleagypsylea Posts: 193 ✭✭
    Without any first hand knowledge, I assume that when prices declined across the board on PM's that his inventory went down in value. Again, no first hand knowledge, but whenever someone has inventory most commonly there is a lender involved. When the value of inventory goes down, lenders want more collateral or the loan paid down with cash. At the same time, usually when PM prices go down, sales slow down. So, declining prices + no hedging + slower sales+ a lender= trouble
    Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
  • tyler267tyler267 Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you sold 6 months ago at $23 and it's $20 now

    That means I don't understand ... I don't get it. >>



    Same thing I was thinking, math seems to work in his favor
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 35,730 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If you sold 6 months ago at $23 and it's $20 now

    That means I don't understand ... I don't get it. >>



    Same thing I was thinking, math seems to work in his favor >>



    yeah, but if they bought inventory and didn't hedge.... if they bought at $23 and were selling lower with no hedge protection. omg.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,619 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If the profits from when prices were going up were still there he should have had no trouble during a down turn. Profits probably all went into more inventory that could only be sold at a loss. Never good to be all in when dealing with a volatile inventory.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • gypsyleagypsylea Posts: 193 ✭✭
    I have found two things I was told over 30 years ago to be true much more often than not when businesses go belly up: (1) there is always a lender; (2) the real wrongdoer is always judgment proof.
    Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 24,776 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another take: many companies charge storage fees to hold your purchases within their vaults. Tulving is doing so for free. image

    peacockcoins

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If the profits from when prices were going up were still there he should have had no trouble during a down turn. Profits probably all went into more inventory that could only be sold at a loss. Never good to be all in when dealing with a volatile inventory. >>



    I never had any problem. No matter what the market did.
    The secret is staying "flat" on the inventory. At ANY level. Sure you can add on dips as long as you know it is speculation.


    Buy back what you sell and sell off what you buy in whatever amount needed to maintain the LEVEL of inventory.

    It ain't rocket science. Simple in fact.
    image

    It's those who try to OUTGUESS the market that go bust.
  • 7over87over8 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't think they were carrying much "inventory"

    I would think that they had arrangements with first tier distributors to lock the deals they sold.

    It surprises me that under that scenario they have these issues. Unless you abandoned the rules (take an order/lock it in with your supplier) and "played" the market....there shouldn't be an issue.
  • au58au58 Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>If the profits from when prices were going up were still there he should have had no trouble during a down turn. Profits probably all went into more inventory that could only be sold at a loss. Never good to be all in when dealing with a volatile inventory. >>



    I never had any problem. No matter what the market did.
    The secret is staying "flat" on the inventory. At ANY level. Sure you can add on dips as long as you know it is speculation.


    Buy back what you sell and sell off what you buy in whatever amount needed to maintain the LEVEL of inventory.

    It ain't rocket science. Simple in fact.
    image

    It's those who try to OUTGUESS the market that go bust. >>



    This is right. It's about inventory turn and cash flow.
    A properly managed and adequately capitalized should be able to handle market perturbations. Of late, the ups and downs have not been wild swings.
  • gypsyleagypsylea Posts: 193 ✭✭


    << <i>I wouldn't think they were carrying much "inventory"

    I would think that they had arrangements with first tier distributors to lock the deals they sold.

    It surprises me that under that scenario they have these issues. Unless you abandoned the rules (take an order/lock it in with your supplier) and "played" the market....there shouldn't be an issue. >>



    I have read elsewhere that he drop shipped, which I think is what you are saying, but that seems to be recent. He used to advertise in stock, ship the day, or next day after, he got your wire.
    Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Whoever designed and maintains their website is the real criminal

    MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • derrybderryb Posts: 37,619 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Whoever designed and maintains their website is the real criminal

    MJ >>



    image

    I agree, it was an inside job.

    No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left

  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You think Tulving can't deliver? How about the Federal Reserve Bank of NY and Germany's gold - all these countries wanting to repatriate their gold could cause a big problem if it really isn't there in the first place. Venezuela is the only country so far that has gotten all it's gold back.
    Tir nam beann, nan gleann, s'nan gaisgeach ~ Saorstat Albanaich a nis!
  • ConnecticoinConnecticoin Posts: 13,109 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Venezuela is the only country so far that has gotten all it's gold back. >>



    Hmm, so Hugo Chavez needed something to pave his driveway I guess.
    *For Sale on Numismy* *For Sale on Ebay*
  • DavideoDavideo Posts: 1,363 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Venezuela is the only country so far that has gotten all it's gold back. >>



    Hmm, so Hugo Chavez needed something to pave his driveway I guess. >>



    Or at least he would if he wasn't dead... Or is he? Conspiracy theory!!!
  • JCMhoustonJCMhouston Posts: 5,306 ✭✭✭
    He was well known for being crooked back in the day, but some people never learn. At some point all these schemes come crashing down.
    JCM-Houston
    World Collection
    British Collection
    German States Collection
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,765 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would go to a show like long beach and spend money vs mail order like that - all those big ticket orders - unbelievable.
    Investor
  • danglendanglen Posts: 1,674 ✭✭✭
    Sorry to see him go. Did business with him for many years and never had a problem. Last coins I bought from him were some Saints I ordered last month. They were shipped overnight as promised. I will miss dealing with Hannes.image
    danglen

    My Website

    "Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."

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