1968 Topps Rack
kimo75
Posts: 263 ✭✭
There is a 1968 Topps rack with Stargell showing on eBay. Thoughts?
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kimo75
Posts: 263 ✭✭
Comments
edited to add: the header card says "3 10 cent packs" but the cards are loose in the cells. Leads me to beleive that each cell was supposed to contain individually cello wrapped stacks of cards.
final edit - If you look at the topps archives website, it does show a '68 rack pack and says that in '68, Topps did away with the cellophane wrapped packs inside racks. I guess the header card didn't catch up to that reality back then.
The header on this rack is correct for 1968. It's tough to tell from the scan, but it does appear the seams are correct, also.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
it's been a while I think since 1 has been sold--gonna guess $1,500-1,650
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Tim, that Ryan rack is sick. How much? 10K?
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>Tim, that Ryan rack is sick. How much? 10K? >>
$5,300 in 2011.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
TheClockworkAngelCollection
<< <i>Wow, I guess I'm clueless on unopened stuff....$5800 sounds awfully low to me >>
Even lower than that, it went for $5,300, lol..
Edit to add: It was a 6, though..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Speaking of 68 racks, here's one MH auctioned off a while back:
The 1968 Casey Cox that is showing on the second cell is the yellow letter version, which can only be a 1968 Milton Bradley. All 1968 Topps Casey Cox cards are the white letter version. Is it normal for 1968 Topps rack packs to contain 1968 Milton Bradley cards, which were actually issued in 1969 in the Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game?
<< <i>
<< <i>Speaking of 68 racks, here's one MH auctioned off a while back:
The 1968 Casey Cox that is showing on the second cell is the yellow letter version, which can only be a 1968 Milton Bradley. All 1968 Topps Casey Cox cards are the white letter version. Is it normal for 1968 Topps rack packs to contain 1968 Milton Bradley cards, which were actually issued in 1969 in the Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game? >>
I have no idea, as it was not my rack and I hadn't even seen it till today when I searched images on line after the rack the OP referred to was listed.
Personally, I would avoid any 68 rack with Ryan RC on top in the first place, unless the provenance were iron clad.
I focus primarily on 1970s packs, but maybe someone with firsthand knowledge about 68 racks can chime in..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>Speaking of 68 racks, here's one MH auctioned off a while back:
The 1968 Casey Cox that is showing on the second cell is the yellow letter version, which can only be a 1968 Milton Bradley. All 1968 Topps Casey Cox cards are the white letter version. Is it normal for 1968 Topps rack packs to contain 1968 Milton Bradley cards, which were actually issued in 1969 in the Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game? >>
I dont know the answer but your observation and most of grote's posts are why I cannot stop reading this board.
Awesome catch. I'd love to hear the conclusion. Someone may have paid 5300 for a reseal?
<< <i>
The 1968 Casey Cox that is showing on the second cell is the yellow letter version, which can only be a 1968 Milton Bradley. All 1968 Topps Casey Cox cards are the white letter version. Is it normal for 1968 Topps rack packs to contain 1968 Milton Bradley cards, which were actually issued in 1969 in the Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game? >>
Are you sure? There seem to be a crap load of the yellow letter version on ebay, none of which are described as MB....
PSA 1968 Topps Cox in Yellow Letters
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>Ok, so a GAI 6 1968 rack with a HOFer on top goes for over 5K, but the seller of this 1968 rack with a HOFer on top starts the auction at $9.99 ? Doesn't make sense. Is it possible that the seller doesn't know the value of a 1968 rack ? >>
This seller has sold high-end unopened product in the past. Probstein and PWCC start their auctions off at 99 cents and some of their realized prices are even stronger than the high BIN format auctions.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>
The 1968 Casey Cox that is showing on the second cell is the yellow letter version, which can only be a 1968 Milton Bradley. All 1968 Topps Casey Cox cards are the white letter version. Is it normal for 1968 Topps rack packs to contain 1968 Milton Bradley cards, which were actually issued in 1969 in the Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game? >>
Are you sure? There seem to be a crap load of the yellow letter version on ebay, none of which are described as MB.... >>
No, I can't say for certain. I have seen on other threads about 1968 Milton Bradley cards here and at net54 that some of the experts on the set believed that the Casey Cox and Ed Brinkman yellow cards were strictly Milton Bradley issues and that they had never seen either one with a normal 1968 Topps first series color back. Hopefully, one of them will spot this thread and chime in. It is my understanding that PSA didn't recognize 1968 Milton Bradley cards until recently.
Here is a 1968 rack pack and some close ups of the wider seams that Topps used between 1968 and 1973. They switched to narrower seams in 1974 as they decreased the card count in the racks from 54 to 42 cards.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
<< <i>
<< <i>Speaking of 68 racks, here's one MH auctioned off a while back:
The 1968 Casey Cox that is showing on the second cell is the yellow letter version, which can only be a 1968 Milton Bradley. All 1968 Topps Casey Cox cards are the white letter version. Is it normal for 1968 Topps rack packs to contain 1968 Milton Bradley cards, which were actually issued in 1969 in the Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game? >>
I'm sorry, but there is something fishy about this rack pack. The card showing in the first cell is #430 Rico Petrocelli, which would be from a third or fourth series, the card in the second cell is a first series yellow team #66 Casey Cox which some expert collectors believe was only made for the 1969 Milton Bradley Win-A-Card board game, and the card in the third cell just happens to be a first series #177 Nolan Ryan rookie. Too many red flags for me.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
I have both the 1968 MB and Topps sets, and because those two cards are still listed as variations to the 1968 set by most guides, I have them in both sets
I think Carlton will soon have a article on the MB set published in SCD
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
The 1968 Nolan Ryan rack has been floating around for some time and I bet the person who originally submitted it to GAI didn't even know the story about the Milton Bradley cards. Nor does it look like they understood sequencing of the series. Anyone have a back scan of this rack. I'd be interested to see if the cards on back are from the same series as the ones on top or not.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
Or, an even better question, has anyone who actually opened 1968 Topps packs ever pulled a yellow letter Cox card?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
<< <i>I have mentioned this thread to Carlton and hopefully he can add something more. I think it would hard for PSA to undo all the Cox and Smith MB cards they have labeled as variations , and most guides still lists them as variations to the 68 set. Maybe when Carlton's article is published it will cause some further examination. It was Carlton who pointed out to me that for a complete Topps 68 MB baseball set you need both different DPs of card 107, CL 2. These are both MB cards:
I always preferred the background on the left to the one on the right. I wish the whole regular Topps set had used that background. My OCD can't stand the different backgrounds.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep."
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans."
Collecting:
Any unopened Baseball cello and rack packs and boxes from the 1970's and early 1980s.
The Ryan rack Tim posted a pic of is another story. For obvious reasons I was interested in buying it. I contacted a very reputable source to ask his opinion--
his comment? "Manny I like Brian(Mile High) and Ryan, but stay away from that rack". And so I did
a number of years ago--say late '80s early- '90s, a man from out west had probably 50-60 racks and cellos with stars on top of everyone of them. Ryan rack was one of them--probably this same one as I have only seen 1 over that time span. I mean he had every major rookie showing from '65(Carlton) to 1972
He was selling only if one buyer wanted it all. The ad appeared in SCD since the internet and I believe eBay was still miles away
If you were collecting unopened back then and subscribed to SCD you probably remember it--it was that impressive
Al--I think you raise an interesting point as to whether someone from Topps spiced up the value of the rack pack by inserting the rare Cox YT card. Recall though that this card was not listed as a variation with value until Beckett and Eckes' 5th Sport Americana priceguide in 1983. The Brinkman YT card was not listed until 1987.
I know that secondary market rack pack repackaging too place around 1972 for the 1968 cards. I have seen those Christmas rack packs with cards from mixed series like this rack pack. I have also purchased some on ebay and have spotted 68 MB cards with white borders.
Because of legal issues, the MB cards weren't released until around June 1968. Topps was up to its 4th or 5th 1968 series by then. The Win a Card game these cards came in had a preliminary patent pending applied for in April 1968 but it wasn't finally granted until April 1969. The game, suffering from poor publicity and having the misfortune of trying to sell kids "old" cards, had very limited production--some five to ten thousand games. The Win a Card games were long out of production by 1969. The game board box clearly states 1968--patent applied for.
Once the cards left the production plant, they never returned to Topps. They were packaged at the Milton Bradley plant in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts. When those cards left for the retailer, they never came back to Milton Bradley. They remained on the shelf at the five-and-dime until they were sold or discarded.
<< <i>Grote15--All Topps YT Cox/Brinkman cards are MB cards and vice versa. I have over 40 Cox and Brinkman YT cards, and you will never find them without the characteristic yellow back seen in the Milton Bradley 1968 set. PSA still grades them as both Yellow Team Letter variations and 1968 Topps Milton Bradley cards. I have had several PSA cards cross over via "mechanical error" from YT cards to Milton Bradley cards. PSA still puts the subscript "Yellow Team Letter" on the card. You could not get these cards through a regular 1968 pack.
Al--I think you raise an interesting point as to whether someone from Topps spiced up the value of the rack pack by inserting the rare Cox YT card. Recall though that this card was not listed as a variation with value until Beckett and Eckes' 5th Sport Americana priceguide in 1983. The Brinkman YT card was not listed until 1987.
I know that secondary market rack pack repackaging too place around 1972 for the 1968 cards. I have seen those Christmas rack packs with cards from mixed series like this rack pack. I have also purchased some on ebay and have spotted 68 MB cards with white borders.
Because of legal issues, the MB cards weren't released until around June 1968. Topps was up to its 4th or 5th 1968 series by then. The Win a Card game these cards came in had a preliminary patent pending applied for in April 1968 but it wasn't finally granted until April 1969. The game, suffering from poor publicity and having the misfortune of trying to sell kids "old" cards, had very limited production--some five to ten thousand games. The Win a Card games were long out of production by 1969. The game board box clearly states 1968--patent applied for.
Once the cards left the production plant, they never returned to Topps. They were packaged at the Milton Bradley plant in East Longmeadow, Massachusetts. When those cards left for the retailer, they never came back to Milton Bradley. They remained on the shelf at the five-and-dime until they were sold or discarded. >>
Interesting info regarding the 1968 MB/Topps cards--thanks for posting goheels.
Here's the listing for the 68 Ryan rack as it appeared in the MH auction. Notice that MH does call attention to the Cox card in question:
An Incredibly rare offering is this 1968 Topps 29 cent Rack Pack containing 36 cards. Card #177 featuring a young rookie named Nolan Ryan graces the front, along with the very rare #66A Casey Cox (yellow team variation). Global Authentication has graded and encapsulated this great unopened treasure at EX-MT 6 for overall quality. Get in it!
I found it rather odd that the back of the rack was not pictured in the auction~since the visible cards are from different series, it would be interesting to see if the cards on back of each section are from the same series as the card on top. I usually find that such aberrations or anomalies almost invariably plague racks with stars or key cards on top. And as Manny indicated in his previous post, some of these racks were (potentially) being fabricated well before the internet was even a venue for buying and selling packs.
You would think that if a person were resealing a rack with Ryan on top that they wouldn't push the envelope by inserting yet another rare variation card. I would think that if that were the case that the resealer was either unaware that the YL Cox card could not be a Topps card or that he was virtually certain that the vast majority of collectors would not be aware, either. Even more confounding is that this 68 Ryan rack does seem to have the correct "double wide" seams that Topps used during this era, which would indicate that the cello in the rack is correct for that year. Many times, fabricated racks from the wider seam era (1968-1973) utilize cheaper rack packaging from later years' racks, in which the seams were noticably narrower.
I do think if this info regarding the yellow letter Cox and Brinkman cards is correct in that these cards can ONLY be MB cards, that PSA and/or Joe Orlando should be made aware of these facts so that proper attribution of these cards for grading can be implemented going forward.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
PSA has graded nearly 1000 MB 1968 baseball cards and they just started in late 2010. The maximum possible highest graded PSA baseball card subset of 77 baseball cards is only 8.37. This is lower than just about any other Topps issue, and even lower than 1948-9 Leaf (8.47) and 1933 Goudey (8.71). These cards were obtained only through a child's game that was designed for flipping and handling cards. Condition is very challenging. I own the top graded set of all 132 cards, and it is a 8.06 set of a maximum set rating of 8.26.
Not sure when my SCD article will be published. It was approved some time ago.
Carlton
I did not mean to imply I thought that Topps had likely packaged MBs with regular cards in later racks. I can't prove it did not happen, but thought it more likely it was a repackage job at a later date after the Cox had acquired a premium and was packaged with the Ryan.
Per Grote's suggestion maybe you should forward a copy of the article to PSA after it is published and mention the Super Set possibility as well
Looking forward to the article
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al