…does this NGC label look weird to you???

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

It's offered by a respected dealer on eBay…but for the life of me, I have never seen an NGC label look like this one. Maybe I need a drink

link to outerspace

Erik

LindeDad

Make it Strong. Old. It's five somewhere.

lostincoins

old holder and the label shifted to the right Edit to add I don't see a 65 DMPL in that Morgan.

steelielee

don't know about the label but sure doesn't look like a 63 or dpl...

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>don't know about the label but sure doesn't look like a 63 or dpl... >>



it is a 65 DPL and it does not look like that to my eyes either??? Also, its a no-line fattie, but like one I have NEVER seen and I collect them? oh well, now gimmie that drink

Erik

DennisH

Looks amazingly overgraded.

lostincoins

Eric one day you and I will sit down and down some of this together over a big meal of good meat and bread.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>Eric one day you and I will sit down and down some of this together over a big meal of good meat and bread.

>>



here here my good fellow!

Erik

Unknown

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MsMorrisine

Not everyone respects greatsoutherncoin


The label looks too wide and too tall for the slot. That plus the obvious grading problem makes me highly suspicious.

PLM

I have read that that label with the very small print below the barcode was a very short lived one from August and September 2000. Remember PL and especially DMPL dollars really make marks stand out. However I agree it doesn't look like 65.

astrorat

The label came loose and slipped to the slide.

These labels were used in late 2000 for about a month or so as they were quite unpopular due to the small serial number. They occasionally show up without too much of a premium, if any.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>I have read that that label with the very small print below the barcode was a very short lived one from August and September 2000. Remember PL and especially DMPL dollars really make marks stand out. However I agree it doesn't look like 65. >>



...could you provide a reference as to where you read this if possible. Thx

Erik

morbidsteve

Looks legit. Maybe over graded though.

Steve

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>The label came loose and slipped to the slide.

These labels were used in late 2000 for about a month or so as they were quite unpopular due to the small serial number. They occasionally show up without too much of a premium, if any. >>



wow, cool and thanks for sharing your knowledge

Erik

BryceM

I don't think it looks that bad - the photography isn't helping it any.

SeattleSlammer

Doesn't even look DPL by NGC's loose mirror standards....

astrorat

<< <i>

<< <i>The label came loose and slipped to the slide.

These labels were used in late 2000 for about a month or so as they were quite unpopular due to the small serial number. They occasionally show up without too much of a premium, if any. >>



wow, cool and thanks for sharing your knowledge

Erik >>

Thanks, but the accolades go to conder101 who was the first person to start publicly chronicling the history and varieties of the third party graders. Many of us collect the old slabs and certificates and keep interest in that segment of numismatics alive.

brg5658

NGC Gen 8 Holder

Used for 4 week in Aug/Sep 2000 (link provided above).

I have a few of these in my collection. They are not as "rare" as slab variety collectors would like to believe (nothing even close to the black holders). But, they are lesser known.

lostincoins

Here is a MS64PL PCGS

LanceNewmanOCC

.
thanks. happy to add the image to my database.
.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>NGC Gen 8 Holder

Used for 4 week in Aug/Sep 2000 (link provided above).

I have a few of these in my collection. They are not as "rare" as slab variety collectors would like to believe (nothing even close to the black holders). But, they are lesser known.

>>



...it is certainly interesting that the coin in my OP is housed in a no-line fattie, cause the picture of the NGC 8 in the link you provided does indeed have a line through the holder.

Erik

brg5658

<< <i>

...it is certainly interesting that the coin in my OP is housed in a no-line fattie, cause the picture of the NGC 8 in the link you provided does indeed have a line through the holder.

Erik >>



My post was only with reference to the label. That label is indeed a valid NGC one. Now, the fact that ALL NGC 8 holders have lines is a problem. What it looks like to me is that the old no-line fatty was opened up, and an NGC-8 style label was substituted (thus the size difference). The long hologram sticker on the reverse also gives this away as a non-authentic NGC-8 holder.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>

<< <i>

...it is certainly interesting that the coin in my OP is housed in a no-line fattie, cause the picture of the NGC 8 in the link you provided does indeed have a line through the holder.

Erik >>



My post was only with reference to the label. That label is indeed a valid NGC one. Now, the fact that ALL NGC 8 holders have lines is a problem. What it looks like to me is that the old no-line fatty was opened up, and an NGC-8 style label was substituted (thus the size difference). The long hologram sticker on the reverse also gives this away as a non-authentic NGC-8 holder. >>



...now we are cooking with oil keep the thoughts coming boys.

Erik

brg5658

I sent him a message:


Dear greatsoutherncoin,

The holder pictured is not original and has been tampered with. The label style pictured (small certification number below the bar-code) was not used in the no-line-fattie era. The label is from an NGC generation 8 holder used in Aug/Sept 2000, yet the plastic and the reverse hologram are from a no-line-fattie NGC holder last used in 1995.

It is my opinion that this holder has been tampered with, and the label (and thus grade) of this coin is not accurate. Also note that the label is too large for the intended space in the slab. I strongly recommend you review this slab for tampering.



We'll see how nasty is the reply.

lkeigwin

Good detective work!

The auction ends in 2 hours, there are no bidders, so I doubt greatsoutherncoin (of dubious distinction) will reply.

Let's see if it is relisted and worth reporting.
Lance.

KeyLargoRareCoins

Well my first thought was to laugh when the OP said great southern coins was a respectable dealer. My second thought was to check the cert and it does not list a grade on ngc very odd. I have run into ngc slabs that simply were not sealed, I purchased a complete 1877 proof set in an ngc multi coin holder and half of the holder was not sealed. It would have been pretty easy to pop some coins out and replace them. That would be the only way I could see someone being able to do that, or you could attempt to cut a slab open but thats about impossible as the plastic in the seam will melt while.

brg5658

<< <i>Well my first thought was to laugh when the OP said great southern coins was a respectable dealer. My second thought was to check the cert and it does not list a grade on ngc very odd. I have run into ngc slabs that simply were not sealed, I purchased a complete 1877 proof set in an ngc multi coin holder and half of the holder was not sealed. It would have been pretty easy to pop some coins out and replace them. That would be the only way I could see someone being able to do that, or you could attempt to cut a slab open but thats about impossible as the plastic in the seam will melt while. >>



For the record, I think the coin probably belongs to the original no-line fatty slab. The label is the part that was switched out. Probably from a MS62 (no PL or DPL) to the obviously overgraded MS65DPL label from a holder style that is at least 5.5 years after the slab was made.

astrorat

I had to go back and check my reference images and examples I have and the only way that slab can be legitimate is if, for whatever bizarre reason, a lot of old holders were found and used. But ... that is probably far more fantasy than reality as it would likely require different dies for the sonic sealer since the slabs are different sizes. The opened and resealed no-line fatty with a small serial number label would explain how the label came to be off-center.

Good eye!

astrorat

The other two eBay listings with a mini-serial number label are "lined" slabs.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD

<< <i>Well my first thought was to laugh when the OP said great southern coins was a respectable dealer. My second thought was to check the cert and it does not list a grade on ngc very odd. I have run into ngc slabs that simply were not sealed, I purchased a complete 1877 proof set in an ngc multi coin holder and half of the holder was not sealed. It would have been pretty easy to pop some coins out and replace them. That would be the only way I could see someone being able to do that, or you could attempt to cut a slab open but thats about impossible as the plastic in the seam will melt while. >>



...lol...I only stated he/she was a respected dealer because I don't like stepping on toes (I'm too heavy and it just pisses people off)... However I have no problem ripping people's toes off of their feet... if indeed that is what has to be done

also, the cert checked out fine when I searched it on ngccoin.com...but there is no question that the label should not be in a no-line fattie. I am interested in hearing the response from the dealer.

Erik

lkeigwin

NGC holders are not difficult to open without damage. With careful gluing of the sides it can be very deceptive.
Lance.

brg5658

<< <i>The other two eBay listings with a mini-serial number label are "lined" slabs. >>



I own about a dozen "mini-serial number" NGC Gen 8 holders, all of them have lines. I'm 99.99% sure this slab was messed with and put back together with a newer generation (higher grade) label.

KeyLargoRareCoins

<< <i>NGC holders are not difficult to open without damage. With careful gluing of the sides it can be very deceptive.
Lance.

>>




Interesting, I would love to see the sides of that holder?

lkeigwin

The edges aren't perfect (I was focused on not harming the coin, not the slab). But they're close enough to fool anyone who isn't suspicious.

Images are of a cracked slab alongside an intact one.
Lance.