PSA authentication and referencing provenance. Possible Ty Cobb HR game ticket at Fenway?

akuracy503

So i'm up late on a work night reading up on a new book I just got "Fenway 1912" by Glenn Stout.

I'm on page 128-129 reading on Boston Red Sox homestand against the Detroit Tigers starting May 7th for a 3 game series.
It states the May 7th game ended 5-4 win for Boston.

It goes on saying that May 8th was a rainout and all of the players for both clubs were "feted at a banquet by 1,500 members of the local elks club"
This is where Tris Speaker was introduced to Ty Cobb. It was later noted by the globe paper that Cobb "He sent some hot ones in the direction of Tris".
Cobb was quoted "I am not much of a talker, but as there is the greatest "Speaker" of all to follow me, I waive the privilege of taking any more of your time."

The very next day they resume play on damp day and what do you know Ty Cobb rifles a hit over right field fence for the 2nd home run in Fenway history, making his statement to Tris Speaker.
This 2nd game ended 7-4 and according to Baseball-Almanac.com the game was played on May 9th.

The 3 game series ended on May 10th.

I posted this ticket stub of mine in a thread last month:


Being that the book references a 3 game series that started on May 7th. It is safe to say that game 2 was scheduled for May 8th (being a rainout) and game 3 scheduled for May 9th.
Is there enough provenance to say that this May 8th game ticket was used for the May 9th contest, with those tickets stamped with a May 9th date used for the May 10th game.

Am I wishful thinking, is it far fetched?
What are the chances that I could gather enough historical script to convince PSA to reholder my ticket as the May 9th makeup game where Ty Cobb hit the 2nd home run in Fenway Park history.
Would or Could the Red Sox organization have some information stating that early 1912 rainout game tickets would be used for the next contest.

I do not have enough background in rare historical items to say how provenance is tracked, i'm sure it is done like a science for fine arts and other historical pieces.

Would appreciate your opinions and or advice on how to make a case to PSA.

I know it's a measly ticket but this could be the greatest pickup in my collecting existence.

Southsider

I don't know how they handled rainouts back then, but it would seem likely to me that if games were scheduled for 7th, 8th, and 9th, the rained out game on the 8th would have been made up on the 10th, rather than having to shift the tickets for the 9th to the 10th and the rainout tickets from the 8th to the 9th. Less work that way.

coachnip13

I agree with southsider. There's no way they would shift an entire day's worth of tickets. They didn't exactly have Twitter back then, so there wouldn't be a way to let the May 9th ticket holders know that their tickets were no good for May 9th. That would be a logistical nightmare even today, so I can't imagine that it would even be a thought in 1912.

Maurice

<< <i>I don't know how they handled rainouts back then, but it would seem likely to me that if games were scheduled for 7th, 8th, and 9th, the rained out game on the 8th would have been made up on the 10th, rather than having to shift the tickets for the 9th to the 10th and the rainout tickets from the 8th to the 9th. Less work that way. >>



That's exactly how it works. Tickets don't get pushed ahead. Rainout tickets are typically valid for the rescheduled game.

With that said, why are we assuming that it was a scheduled 3 game series (May 7, 8, 9) with a scheduled day off on the 10th? Anything to back that up?

I think it's far more likely that it was a scheduled 4 game series (May 7, 8, 9, 10) and only 3 games were played due to the May 8th rainout.

Why do I think it was a scheduled 4 game series? Because the next time Detroit came back to Fenway (July 12, 13, 15, 16), it was a 5 game series that included a doubleheader on the first day.

I think both the May and July series were originally scheduled as 4 games each, with the May 8th rainout game played on July 12th (doubleheader).

It is also possible -- albeit unlikely -- that the May series was a scheduled 3 game series with the games scheduled for May 7, 8, 10 and a scheduled day off on the 9th. The May 8th rainout could have been rescheduled for the 9th.

Ironmanfan

wishful thinking; but I think the ticket is neat nonetheless

IMF

akuracy503

Update, after reading the archives of the Boston Globe's May 9th publishing.

It states that with the May 8th rainout there would be a double header in Detroit's next trip to the city of Boston.
So Maurice is correct the May 8th rainout game was made up on July 12th, now the question being which game, 1 or 2 of the doublheader?

I'll do some further reading in the Boston globe archives to see if I can get a hint.

akuracy503

A quick glance at the the July 13 issue of the Boston Globe shows a staggering attendance of 15,000 for the doubleheader.
Likely a 2 games for the price of 1 deal. Not sure how doubleheaders worked back then or even today?

coachnip13

<< <i>Likely a 2 games for the price of 1 deal. Not sure how doubleheaders worked back then or even today? >>



I just went on a Fenway tour, and the guide covered that exact point. It was indeed two games for one ticket.

dennis07

I don't know how rain checks worked way back then but in the 60's you could exchange your raincheck for any future game tickets were available.
Just guessing here but it seems to me if you exchanged your rain check for a ticket to another game they would take your rain check and destroy it so it wouldn't be used again.

stown

<< <i>

<< <i>Likely a 2 games for the price of 1 deal. Not sure how doubleheaders worked back then or even today? >>



I just went on a Fenway tour, and the guide covered that exact point. It was indeed two games for one ticket. >>



The last doubleheader I went to (15? years ago), they cleared out the stadium after the first game and you needed another ticket to attend the second.

PS ~ Regardless, that's a very cool and unique ticket stub.

coachnip13

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Likely a 2 games for the price of 1 deal. Not sure how doubleheaders worked back then or even today? >>



I just went on a Fenway tour, and the guide covered that exact point. It was indeed two games for one ticket. >>



The last doubleheader I went to (15? years ago), they cleared out the stadium after the first game and you needed another ticket to attend the second.

PS ~ Regardless, that's a very cool and unique ticket stub.

>>



Right, that's the point the guide was making. Now it's about the dollars, back then it was a bargain.

stown

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Likely a 2 games for the price of 1 deal. Not sure how doubleheaders worked back then or even today? >>



I just went on a Fenway tour, and the guide covered that exact point. It was indeed two games for one ticket. >>



The last doubleheader I went to (15? years ago), they cleared out the stadium after the first game and you needed another ticket to attend the second.

PS ~ Regardless, that's a very cool and unique ticket stub.

>>



Right, that's the point the guide was making. Now it's about the dollars, back then it was a bargain. >>



Sorry, thought you meant they followed the same procedure today.

Maurice

The May 8th rainout ticket probably wasn't valid for July 12th because it was a doubleheader. Back in those days, they were all single admission doubleheaders.