SEGS Grading Company

123cents · January 21, 2014 6:54AM

I just looked at their website and see they now have a certification look up and a population report. I wonder if they will now be Ebay eligible?

derryb · January 21, 2014 7:21AM

They may very well be making an effort to do so.

Ebay requirements to become "recognized:"

To be an approved grading service on eBay, the grading company must, at minimum, meet the following objective criteria:
The service has graded at least 50,000 pre-1956 coins.
The service provides a live, online population report.
There are at least 3 graders on staff who are considered numismatic experts. A numismatic expert is an individual who has been a full-time numismatist for at least 5 years. At least 1 of the graders should be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild, and all 3 should be members of the American Numismatic Association.
The service provides a written buyback guarantee for coins later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, misgraded, or misattributed.
Slabbed coins must be encased in a unique, tamper resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (such as a hologram or other method).
The service enables online verification of unique serial numbers.

DennisH · January 21, 2014 7:21AM

Good for them!

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · January 21, 2014 7:24AM

<< Good for them! >>

…you mean good for him!

right?

Erik

Rampage · January 21, 2014 7:27AM

<< 

<< Good for them! >>

…you mean good for him!
right?
Erik >>

What does that mean?

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · January 21, 2014 7:28AM

<< 

<< 

<< Good for them! >>

…you mean good for him!
right?
Erik >>

What does that mean? >>

isn't SEGS a one-man operation?

Erik

MusicAL · January 21, 2014 7:52AM

I also wish SEGS luck. I understand (at least when I had about a dozen coins certified by them many years ago when they had just begun the company) that they have a wonderful panel of graders, with some expertise in early U.S. type. I don't know if that has changed. Without going into great detail, my experiences were not good back then and 1 valuable coin I had in my collection for years that I submitted to them (graded VF 25 cleaned), I eventually resubmitted to PCGS and it came back as counterfeit. I was crushed! SEGS DID step up to the plate however and paid me what I paid for the coin...several years after they certified it...they did not have to do that so I respect them for that. After those years in the SEGS slab however...replacement of the piece would have cost me maybe an additional $2000-$2500 and I never could afford that. The other coins I had them certify came back with mixed results when resubmitted to PCGS.

I wouldn't consider them unworthy, as a new start up, mistakes could be made...but mine were costly mistakes and I am cautious. I do wish them luck and success and hope they receive an excellent reputation in time. Right now...the experience has not healed yet. I will follow this thread with interest to see what new developments occur.

I will be interested to read the follow up on the experiences of others with SEGS and I truly hope that they will claim their place up there with the "big guys".

Alan MusicAL

braddick · January 21, 2014 8:24AM

I'll hold out for PQ stickering service to recognize SEGS before jumping on board their band wagon.

darktone · January 21, 2014 8:57AM

Larry Briggs has a very good eye. I showed him a coin I had for years and in half a sec he spotted a problem. I had to look at if several times before I saw what he saw.

LindeDad · January 21, 2014 9:04AM

But do they really count when they don't have this forum on their site.

MrHalfDime · January 21, 2014 9:18AM

I had a very nice conversation with Larry Briggs at the Liberty Seated Collectors Club meeting at the recent FUN Show in Orlando. For the first time in a while he looked good, and was enjoying a period of relative good health - something he hasn't seen in a while. Larry has been around for a long while, and is an experienced grader and attributor. Over the years Larry has made many friends, and rubbed a few others the wrong way, but I think that he has always tried to deal fairly with his customers. I wish him well in his endeavors.

dcarr · January 21, 2014 9:23AM

I own one SEGS-certified coin - a Morgan Silver Dollar 1900-O VAM-22C2.
This is notable since it is one of those vintage "privately-made" coins.
SEGS and ICG (I think) are the only services which certify these collectible pieces.

SeattleSlammer · January 21, 2014 9:43AM

I genuinely wish SEGS luck.
They're gonna need it.
My experience is that their rep is pretty bad.
But I suppose there is still a lot of money to be made even by capturing only a tiny fraction of raw coins.

roadrunner · January 21, 2014 10:06AM

I first looked at SEGS coins back in the 1988-1989 market and they weren't competitive in grading accuracy with PCGS, NGC, and ANACS. But, there's room for a firm that offers something that those 3 don't....whatever your niche might be.

roadrunner · January 21, 2014 10:13AM

<< They may very well be making an effort to do so.

Ebay requirements to become "recognized:"

To be an approved grading service on eBay, the grading company must, at minimum, meet the following objective criteria:
The service has graded at least 50,000 pre-1956 coins.
The service provides a live, online population report.
There are at least 3 graders on staff who are considered numismatic experts. A numismatic expert is an individual who has been a full-time numismatist for at least 5 years. At least 1 of the graders should be a member of the Professional Numismatists Guild, and all 3 should be members of the American Numismatic Association.
The service provides a written buyback guarantee for coins later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, misgraded, or misattributed.
Slabbed coins must be encased in a unique, tamper resistant holder with anti-counterfeiting measures (such as a hologram or other method).
The service enables online verification of unique serial numbers. >>

Not a hard list to accomplish. Any dealers who have been around for 5-10 years or more would probably be able to qualify. PNG is always looking for new member dealers. A pop report is useless for 50,000 coins.
But the one nit I can see that affects all TPG's is this one:

The service provides a written buyback guarantee for coins later determined to be counterfeit, damaged, MISGRADED, or misattributed.

How does one determine at a later date that something was "misgraded." After all, it's just an opinion. And often on resubmissions the same TPG doesn't even agree with itself. Even if you can find 97 experts to say a coin
is properly graded, I can find 3 experts to say it's not.

bidask · January 21, 2014 10:48AM

Is the SEGS service market acceptable?

lostincoins · January 21, 2014 10:55AM

According to a prior post our host does not fit this 100% as they do not cover coins that have been misatributed such as say putting no arrows on the holder when the coin has arrows. Mechanical/typos would be a misattribution.

bsshog40 · January 21, 2014 11:15AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Good for them! >>

…you mean good for him!
right?
Erik >>

What does that mean? >>

isn't SEGS a one-man operation?

Erik >>

You might be thinking about the infamous MS70 & PF70 SGS slabs.

Coinosaurus · January 21, 2014 11:48AM

<< I had a very nice conversation with Larry Briggs at the Liberty Seated Collectors Club meeting at the recent FUN Show in Orlando. For the first time in a while he looked good, and was enjoying a period of relative good health - something he hasn't seen in a while. Larry has been around for a long while, and is an experienced grader and attributor. Over the years Larry has made many friends, and rubbed a few others the wrong way, but I think that he has always tried to deal fairly with his customers. I wish him well in his endeavors. >>

I'm glad to hear that about Larry - wish I could have been there. I own only one SEGS coin, a plate coin from Briggs book. I don't really care what they graded it, this one is more for the provenance (Briggs collection) than anything else.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · January 21, 2014 11:57AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< Good for them! >>

…you mean good for him!
right?
Erik >>

What does that mean? >>

isn't SEGS a one-man operation?

Erik >>

You might be thinking about the infamous MS70 & PF70 SGS slabs. >>

...indeed, sorry for the confusion. This is the 2nd time in the last year or so that I have confused SEGS for SGS

Erik

Pokermandude · January 21, 2014 12:02PM

I, for one, didn't know that SEGS was still active in the coin grading/slabbing business.

mrearlygold · January 21, 2014 12:14PM

<< Is the SEGS service market acceptable? >>

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · January 21, 2014 1:01PM

Why is the NGC holder an NCS holder? Did you try and have them doctor it out of her details before sending it into SEGS? Or is that a standard holder for NGC details coins? All honest questions sir.

Erik

coindeuce · January 21, 2014 1:27PM

I've had the good fortune to know Larry Briggs for a long time, and I doubt I'll ever meet a more dedicated numismatist than him. Regardless of the market perception of his Grading Service, as far as I'm concerned he is the most grossly undervalued person in the hobby at his level of accomplishment. If Larry wasn't decidedly as dedicated as he is, SEGS would have been sold off or dissolved a long time ago. I recall working for him at a F.U.N. Convention a decade ago when he was in so much physical pain that I was incredulous of the fact that he even appeared at the show. And he was generous to a fault in covering almost all of my expenses for the show. He may not provide the most competitive product in the market, but he damn sure tries hard.

braddick · January 21, 2014 1:30PM

<< Why is the NGC holder an NCS holder? Did you try and have them doctor it out of her details before sending it into SEGS? Or is that a standard holder for NGC details coins? All honest questions sir.

Erik >>

There was a time, just like PCGS, when NGC wouldn't slab problem coins. Instead they'd walk them down the hallway and have their sister company, NCS slab them.

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · January 21, 2014 3:50PM

<< 

<< Why is the NGC holder an NCS holder? Did you try and have them doctor it out of her details before sending it into SEGS? Or is that a standard holder for NGC details coins? All honest questions sir.

Erik >>

There was a time, just like PCGS, when NGC wouldn't slab problem coins. Instead they'd walk them down the hallway and have their sister company, NCS slab them. >>

Thank you sir...now I know

Erik

northcoin · January 21, 2014 4:18PM

<< I had a very nice conversation with Larry Briggs at the Liberty Seated Collectors Club meeting at the recent FUN Show in Orlando. For the first time in a while he looked good, and was enjoying a period of relative good health - something he hasn't seen in a while. Larry has been around for a long while, and is an experienced grader and attributor. Over the years Larry has made many friends, and rubbed a few others the wrong way, but I think that he has always tried to deal fairly with his customers. I wish him well in his endeavors. >>

Thanks for the update and appreciate hearing the good news. One of my most prized coins resides in a SEGS holder.

(FirstMint's researched attribution as to the coin's provenance reaching back to the collection of Longacre adds to the uniqueness of the provenance:

"After doing some quick research and looking for an answer to the reason for such a coin being saved, I uncovered the original appearance for this particular coin.

It came from the James B. Longacre estate (the coin's designer), and was sold in the January 21, 1870 auction sale conducted by
M(oses) Thomas & Sons in Philadelphia. It was lot #178.

The lot description was: "1850, Double Eagle, proof. This piece was from the first dies used for the double eagle, and might be termed a trial piece."

There were also three 1848 CAL Quarter Eagles listed as being proof. However, most everything in the past that was prooflike has been catalogued and sold as a proof, even though that is not the case.

I believe the J B Longacre pedigree (as a first strike) is much more significant than the C W Green listing as a proof w/ enhanced surfaces.")

The Unique "Presentation Piece"/First Strike 1850 $20 Gold Piece with a Unique Provenance

Treashunt · January 21, 2014 8:15PM

I have some SEGS slabs from their early days, and found them to be accurately and conservatively graded

messydesk · January 21, 2014 11:18PM

<< I've had the good fortune to know Larry Briggs for a long time, and I doubt I'll ever meet a more dedicated numismatist than him. Regardless of the market perception of his Grading Service, as far as I'm concerned he is the most grossly undervalued person in the hobby at his level of accomplishment. If Larry wasn't decidedly as dedicated as he is, SEGS would have been sold off or dissolved a long time ago. I recall working for him at a F.U.N. Convention a decade ago when he was in so much physical pain that I was incredulous of the fact that he even appeared at the show. >>

This. Larry and I have been friends for quite a while. As for his physical well-being, I'm sure he'd be thrilled to be in the same shape as probably about 80% of the people who are "on permanent disability", and yet he works through it all.

icsoccer · January 22, 2014 12:06AM

I wish SEGS the best!

Steve · January 22, 2014 12:33AM

<< I just looked at their website and see they now have a certification look up and a population report. I wonder if they will now be Ebay eligible? >>

The "pop" report is a "work in progress" according to their web site. Nothing available as of today. Steve

droopyd · January 22, 2014 1:09AM

I bought a coin once many years ago from a putatively reputable dealer whose recent passing was noted on this board. It was advertised as PCGS, what was sent to me was SEGS. When I inquired about it the discrepancy, I was told that SEGS was "just as good." Even though the coin looked to be problem free and good for the grade, I did return it.

Cameonut · January 22, 2014 3:05AM

I've also known Larry for many years and used to visit his table when he set up in Michigan. At the time I was collecting modern proof Cherrypickers varieties and I found the grading to be quite comparable to PCGS and NGC. I did crack some out of the SEGS holders (what a pain!) to submit to PCGS and was always pleased with the results. Normally the numerical grade was the same or one point lower with PCGS and I don't recall any differences n cameo designation.

One thing I was always amazed with is his ability to remember every variety (modern proof or otherwise) - its like he has a photographic memory for varieties.

I still have a few varieties in SEGS holders and a few fantasy pieces as well. In my humble opinion, SEGS may have the best holder in the industry.

CollectorMan · January 22, 2014 3:08AM

I sent in a Buffalo nickel recently to PCGS that I had cracked out of an SEGS holder. The coin was graded MS 65 by SEGS. The same coin came back from PCGS slabbed, with a MS 65 grade on it. I will be on the lookout for SEGS slabbed coins that can be picked up on the cheap, and then send in to PCGS, if I think it's worth it.

ctf_error_coins · January 22, 2014 3:51AM

This one seems fine. I think this is my only one.

johnny9434 · January 22, 2014 5:24AM

<< I wish SEGS the best!

>>

so do i.

northcoin · January 22, 2014 6:41PM

<< I've also known Larry for many years and used to visit his table when he set up in Michigan. At the time I was collecting modern proof Cherrypickers varieties and I found the grading to be quite comparable to PCGS and NGC. I did crack some out of the SEGS holders (what a pain!) to submit to PCGS and was always pleased with the results. Normally the numerical grade was the same or one point lower with PCGS and I don't recall any differences n cameo designation.

One thing I was always amazed with is his ability to remember every variety (modern proof or otherwise) - its like he has a photographic memory for varieties.

I still have a few varieties in SEGS holders and a few fantasy pieces as well. In my humble opinion, SEGS may have the best holder in the industry. >>

Have to agree with you on the holder. Until I went to the website I had not realized all the effort that goes into it to safeguard the coin beginning with the choice of materials and the sealing process.

Here from the SEGS website:

At a time when the “preservation” of coins wasn’t a priority within the third party grading services, SEGS’ main concern was ”preservation” while designing the SEGS capsule. Our primary objective was to obtain the maximum degree of “inertness”. We were determined to provide the majority, if not all, of the missing combination of fancies and necessary requirements to the consumer, the industry, and to conserve, as best we could, the coins that would be retained in the SEGS product.

The SEGS capsule is manufactured from the utmost inert materials available in todays’ market. Our capsule is created from the same materials as quality controlled “inert” medical and food industry supplies. The coin ring is also “inert” and extremely flexible, not only does it protect your coin edges during assembly and storage; it protects your coin from chemical damage. Our capsule design allows for the ultra-sonic welding of the label in its own compartment, sealing any potential ink or paper contaminates within the label compartment. It is, and has always been costly to us to provide these type products to the consumer but, this particular endowment of conservation and preservation to the industry and the forthcoming changes made by our competitors makes us exceptionally appreciative.

Our capsule has been tested by Dow Chemicals, Kodak, and United Laboratories. One of the most esteemed chemists in the country tested the SEGS capsule against all competitors’ capsules and concluded that the SEGS capsule would protect the item encapsulated, in its condition at the time of encapsulation, for 100 years, and perhaps more.

One of the premier features of the SEGS capsule is the “top viewing” label, so unique it was granted U.S. Patent #0423, 757. Our labels are also color coded to further assist you in classification and storage of your encapsulated coins. This combination of features allows effortless cataloguing and retrieval of any “particular” coin. The SEGS capsule eliminates the hours spent trying to locate any “specific” coin. The front and rear surfaces of SEGS capsules are designed to nest and are easily held and completely stackable on a flat surface.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 22, 2014 10:56PM

<< ...indeed, sorry for the confusion. This is the 2nd time in the last year or so that I have confused SEGS for SGS

Erik >>

you have trouble with that and i have trouble with pgcs ><
.

messydesk · January 22, 2014 11:49PM

<< I still have a few varieties in SEGS holders and a few fantasy pieces as well. In my humble opinion, SEGS may have the best holder in the industry. >>

I agree, although clarity and anti-counterfeiting measures of the newer PCGS holders are better. SEGS holder design, and presumably composition, is unchanged since its inception. In addition to the top label, the feel of the slab in hand much better than others, as you feel a textured plastic surface on the sides, and not the weld seam, which is recessed. SEGS slabs also stack very securely and even fit in PCGS boxes better than PCGS slabs do.

291fifth · January 22, 2014 11:52PM

Back in late 2001 I was in charge of a coin club project to make a 40th anniversary item. I purchased a BU roll of 1962 Franklin Halves for use in the project. At the MSNS show in November I contacted Larry Briggs and had him grade/encapsulate the coins and add a special coin club 40th anniversary notation on the label. The coins came back to me in early December. Most were graded MS-63 or MS-64. Only one was graded MS64 FBL. None were graded higher.

Since I was in charge of the project I had the time to carefully examine the coins. I agreed with the grades with the exception of the coin designated MS64 FBL ... I considered it to be a solid MS65 FBL.

When it came time to distribute the coins to the members at the 40th anniversary meeting in Feb. 2002 the coins were set out on a table. Numbers were drawn and each member could then come up and pick the coin they liked. My number was drawn second to last. Amazingly, no one had taken the MS64 FBL coin! Needless to say, I took it.

The coin, which had come straight from the roll and was never dipped, was 100% white when it was encapsulated. Today it is still 100% white.

Count me among those that really like the SEGS holders.

Wabbit2313 · January 23, 2014 9:45AM

I suspect most of these comments are from those who have not crossed or crack many SEGS coins in "real" life. There is not a chance they are anywhere near PCGS standards, outside of the occasional common date coin. In my personal experience, on the higher end coins, there are an incredible amount of altered surfaces, tooled, cleaned, etc, that they either didn't know how to spot, or chose not to. Yes, I had a couple cross lower, but way more were problem children. You saw the example above MS61 to AU details. Even Anacs saw this. Welcome to the real world of SEGS. He might be a nice guy, and that's great, but there is a reason a 5 grand SEGS coin sells for 300 bucks. I got screwed on that coin, even at $300.

coindeuce · January 23, 2014 10:59AM

" I got screwed on that coin, even at $300."
No, you screwed yourself when you decided to buy the coin as if it was already in a PCGS holder.

291fifth · January 23, 2014 11:45AM

<< I suspect most of these comments are from those who have not crossed or crack many SEGS coins in "real" life. There is not a chance they are anywhere near PCGS standards, outside of the occasional common date coin. In my personal experience, on the higher end coins, there are an incredible amount of altered surfaces, tooled, cleaned, etc, that they either didn't know how to spot, or chose not to. Yes, I had a couple cross lower, but way more were problem children. You saw the example above MS61 to AU details. Even Anacs saw this. Welcome to the real world of SEGS. He might be a nice guy, and that's great, but there is a reason a 5 grand SEGS coin sells for 300 bucks. I got screwed on that coin, even at $300. >>

I have no illusions about the marketability problems with SEGS coins. I am just saying I like the actual holder. I think it is the best designed holder on the market by a wide margin (security features excepted.)

Wabbit2313 · January 23, 2014 12:14PM

<< " I got screwed on that coin, even at $300."
No, you screwed yourself when you decided to buy the coin as if it was already in a PCGS holder.

>>

I am not sure if you know how to read? The coin would go for 5 grand in a PCGS holder at the SEGS grade. Do you really think I bought it for 300 bucks thinking it was?

Zoins · January 23, 2014 3:59PM

Linky

This is great news. I can't wait for the POP report and for eBay approval

Wabbit2313 · January 23, 2014 11:31PM

<< Linky

This is great news. I can't wait for the POP report and for eBay approval

>>

They actually added a guarantee. If they had this 2 years ago, I would have been rich I tell you, RICH!

SEGS Grading Company

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