Sacagawea Questions

MikeB

I see that the millennium and Goodacre varieties of the Sacagawea dollar are now required in the PCGS registry sets. (Maybe that's not news, but I only just noticed.)

I don't know anything about these coins, though, and I've surfed for a while without finding any useful descriptions.

The Goodacre coins were given to the designer of the coin, I guess; 2500 were given to the public and 2500 were given directly to Ms. Goodacre. Is that correct? It seems like they most often turn up in ICG containers. Are they available graded by other services, or do you have to cross an ICG holder over to PCGS to make it for the registry?

Is there anything that sets the Goodacre coins apart other than pedigree? That is, do they have a mark or a different die? Are they proofs?

What about the millennium versions of the coins? I guess I have the same questions--how were they originally made available to the public? What sets them apart?

.B ekiM

littlewicher

I'm not sure if this is completely accurate. I think all 5,000 were originally hers. Then she decided to sell half of them to ICG. But last I knew, PCGS wouldn't cross these. Maybe they've changed since then.

madmike

The Millennium and the Goodacre Sac's were "burnished". There may still be some debate as to exactly what process they went through, but the coins were not proofs, but have a somewhat shinier finish than most.

ICG was the first to recognize these as varieties and slab them as such.

The Millennium Sac's were issued by the US Mint in the Millennium Coinage and Currency sets...

Like this one...

(not mine, just a sample)

Good luck,

madmike

howie08

Mike :
Glenna Goodacre , as the designer of the Sacagawea was paid $ 5000 , and requested to be paid in the new coins. The coins she was paid in , are said to be burnished. There's conflicting info as to what burnishing occured ; whether to the raw planchet , after strike, etc. but they are different. I understand that she submitted or sold 2500 of these and ICG slabbed these . They can be crossed to PCGS holders. They are not proof coins.
The millenium set coins , were said to have the same burnishing , and ICG was the first grading company to recogonize these , although they did grade a few millenium Sacagaweas as non-burnished. I believe the millenium set was a set of 75,000 coins , that came with a Silver Eagle and a $ 1.00 bill. ICG did not grade these Sacagaweas , but instead just noted on the holder that they were from the Millenium set. They did , however , grade the Eagles that came in the set. PCGS will cross and grade the Sacagaweas.
Hope this helps.
Howie

Dabigkahuna

Just to add.
The entire 5000 Goodacre Presentation Sac's were all slabbed and numbered in the order they were submitted by ICG. Originally 2500 only were marketed for sale. Its also been contended that more than the 2500 slipped into the market based on the ICG slab numbers. All of the Goodacre Golden Dollars are 2000-P. There is still a debate as to how these coins were minted but the 5000 that were presented to Glena Goodacre were all specially treated and handled by the mint. They never were exposed to all the handling that the regular strikes received.

The Millennium Sacagawea is the 2000-D. These were found to have had a treatment to the planchets much like the Goodacre coins but were fed through the conveyors and hoppers before making it into the sets. They are hard to find in MS67 or higher. Some of these Denver planchets made their way into mint sets and almost all of the year 2000 Millennium Coin and Currency Sets have the "burnished" 2000-D. PCGS will slab and denote these "Millennium" types but from the C&C sets only. Although a number of Goodacre coins have been crossed to PCGS the vast majority are still in the original ICGS slabs. I think! Here are cuple of kwik shots of the slabs.

Larry
Dabigkahuna

supercoin

And close-ups showing the differences between typical coins...

Sacagawea Dollar 2000-P Regular Issue
Sacagawea Dollar 2000-D Millennium Set
Sacagawea Dollar 2000-P Glenna Goodacre

The Millennium coins are flashy/reflective, while the Goodacres are more accurately described as glossy/wet looking.

The Goodacres are the easiest to pick out of a crowd. The Millennium coins can resemble regular circulation strikes that have a flashier appearance than normal.

cladking

It's interesting to note that the mint maintains that there is no difference between
the Goodacre coins and the normal mint run coins. I've never seen one of these
coins and obviously the supercoin's scans show a difference, but it is interesting to
note. This "burnishing" or whatever has been going on since 1989. The surfaces
appear very dense and results in an extremely lustrous coin. Correct me if I'm wrong,
but it appears the planchets are polished in some manner.

I'm told that these show up in late date regular souvenir sets (1994-'98). Anyone
ever see one?

DHeath

All of the above is dead-on, and interestingly enough, I have several different circulation 2000-P coins with vastly different finishes. One is almost prooflike and darker (looks like it's been waxed), and the other is brassy with cartwheel luster. My best guess is that the mint changed the anti-oxidant rinse after production began. Some of the goodacres have heavier anti-oxidant residue (rust colored) visible under magnfication. It initially looks like a surface flaw like carbon spotting on a lincoln only lighter. Magnification reveals it to be residue.

MikeB

Thanks for your help, everybody.

.B ekiM

supercoin

cladking, I've seen plenty of flashy reflective "prooflike" clad coins along the lines of the Millennium set. Here's a semi-prooflike example of a Sacagawea that's sort of halfway between the regular coins and a Millennium coin:

Sacagawea Dollar 2000-P Semi-Prooflike

But I haven't seen an equivalent to the Goodacre in other coins. A nice Goodacre has an even glossy "wet" look. Not flat mirrors like a proof, and zero cartwheel luster like a normal mint-state coin. They appear at first glance to be post-strike buffed and polished, but there is convincing evidence otherwise.

They're sort of hard to describe -- better buy one for yourself.

IrishMike

I wonder if the prices of Goodacres and Milleniums will rise? Here is picture of my Goodacre, I have compared it to my Millenium, can't see any difference.Link

IrishMike

I wonder if the prices of Goodacres and Milleniums will rise? Here is picture of my Goodacre, I have compared it to my Millenium, can't see any difference.Link

Dabigkahuna

Mike,
I think the prices of the Goodacre will firm up. A lot of people I feel will be reluctant to have theirs crossed over to PCGS and those that do cross probably will keep some in the original ICG slabs as well. About six or seven months ago ICG had a special offering for Goodacre owners. You could have your Goodacre signed by the Model and the Reverse Engraver. Besides having the Goodacre autographed part of the offering was that you got two coins from every mint, (P, D, and S) graded MS66 for the uncirc's and PR69DCAM for the proofs. Each was also autographed by the Model and Reverse Engraver. One set has the Models' autograph and obverse facing forward in the slab and one set has the Reverse Engraver's autograph and the reverse facing forward. One of the options that ICG offered was to have the sets numbered to match the original ICG Goodacre number.

I have a few of these sets. I doubt anyone else that subscribed for these special sets would want to break them up just have to the Goodacre in a PCGS slab. I have no idea how many were sent to ICG for this but you can probably bet these are not available for crossing. These thing make me believe that there is an even smaller pool of Goodacre dollars available for crossing and this may or may not boost the prices.

The Millennium Sac's are still fairly available in the C & C sets and number of them are already in PCGS slabs. They should only cost a fraction of the price that a Goodacre will. If you are a Sac collector you would of course want all of them. IMHO

SEGS was attributing the some of the Sac's that ended up in mint sets and bags as having a "Special Mint Rinse" but I have yet to see one of these slabs. I know I found some 2000-D Sac's in Mint Bags that looked like the special Millennium coins also. They are still in flips because I never got around to sending them to SEGS.

DHeath

Will they rise. Yes, but will it be meteoric, I don't think so. Best I can tell, there are probably less than 10 buyers of $2000+ Goodacres or Millenium coins based upon the registered registry sets (most of the collectors have resisted the MS68 2000D's at much lower prices and lower pops.). Lets say there are another 10 at $1000+ levels (optimistic). Let's say there are another 20 buyers at the $500 level (highly unlikely). There are currently 59 Goodacres graded at MS68 or higher, a surplus of 19 coins. There are currently 83 Millenium coins graded MS67 or higher, a surplus of 43 coins. More interestingly, only 91 Goodacres have been submitted with over half grading MS68+. There are supposedly only 2500 that have been released. If Glenna releases the other 2500, prices will become unstable. This is not to imply some coins won'tl be sold at a premium. I only mean to say that the market for very expensive Sacagawea's is very thin. My set was tied for 2nd before weighting, and I was right in the middle of negotiating to purchase a Goodacre when the weightings were announced, but I believe there are plenty of coins available to satisfy the demands of the registry participants, and they seem to be the ones buying these coins.

IrishMike

I'd hate to break up my millenium set, the dollar is numbered 449 and the SAE is nice too. This is a nice series to try to make yourself.

mdwoods

Here is another rare Sac, a VIP First Strike. Approximately 600 were minted.

mdwoods

Here is a scan of the SEGS Experimental Wash Sac. The color is much darker than a normal Sac.

DHeath

Mark,

I've got two of those in PCGS holders, but PCGS wouldn't grade them, only slab them as experimental.