If other Roiders are voted into the HOF, does ARod also go in?

CollectorAtWork

Right now (and for a while now), Alex Rodriguez is getting creamed in the media. However, with the recent HOF vote, many voters have said they have voted for confirmed PED users like Bonds, etc, and that players like Bonds, Clemens, and McGwire deserve to go into the HOF. Here's one such article: Link. If players like Bonds, Clemens, and McGwire have ALREADY been voted into the Hall, would you say that ARod also deserves to go into the Hall since it looks like using PEDs doesn't keep you out? ARod's current career WAR is 115.7 (according to baseball reference), which is higher than Maddux, Glavine, and Frank Thomas, and below Bonds and Clemens.

MGLICKER

I say yes. Time to bury the last honorable outpost of baseball history and let the dopers in. Pete Rose as well.

I can then wash my hands of the sport and move on.

1985fan

At some point these pearl-clutching guardians of all thing virtuous will have to see the error of their ways and start voting for PED users. Once that happens, Arod is a lock. His numbers, even among PED users, are legendary.

markj111

Arod will not get 5% on the first ballot.

Brick

<< <i>At some point these pearl-clutching guardians of all thing virtuous will have to see the error of their ways and start voting for PED users. Once that happens, Arod is a lock. His numbers, even among PED users, are legendary. >>


+1
I see a sliding scale. Borderline users should be out but Bonds, Arod, Clemens dominated in an era when they had to face other users.

JoeBanzai

I say NEVER for all the "roiders". They fall short on the sportsmanship requirements alone.

Just my opinion.

1985fan

<< <i>I say NEVER for all the "roiders". They fall short on the sportsmanship requirements alone.

Just my opinion. >>



Good thing you don't have a vote.

Dboneesq

If those guys get in he HAS to get in. One of the greatest players of his era.

coinkat

Very simple- close the old HOF and open a different one.

While some folks may see that as extreme, just think about how the game has changed. A very compelling argument can be made that Cooperstown is just not big enough or the right venue.

JoeBanzai

<< <i>bad sportsmanship will keep you out; but good sportsmanship will not get you in >>



Good sportsmanship is a REQUIREMENT to get in. As well as integrity and character. Hard to measure these three requirements, but my opinion is, steroid users should be not allowed in because of this.

I also believe that players that are known for their sportsmanship like Killebrew, Musial, Brooks Robinson (many others) get extra points for exceedingly good sportsmanship, not that they needed extra points to get in, but guys like this are great representatives for the game. I would think that a borderline guy who exhibited superior sportsmanship would get in over a similar player who does not.

The QUALITIES a player must have to merit induction are;

Section 5
Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

MANY people here choose to ignore anything but statistics, but that's not what the rules are.

stown

<< <i>Voting: Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. >>



But, but, but TY COBB!!

Heh.

Skin2

<< <i>

<< <i>They fall short on the sportsmanship requirements alone. >>


is sportsmanship only a "negative" criteria?

meaning, bad sportsmanship will keep you out; but good sportsmanship will not get you in

or worse, good sportsmanship means nothing

isn't a criteria, a criteria? >>



Based on the voting, good sportsmanship has meant absolutely nothing. If it were a true criteria, then guys who were a tad short in the playing aspect, should get recognition and 'points' for their good character to put them in. Perfect example is Dale Murphy. He is a strong borderline case statistically/playing wise as there is right now...and he is probably viewed as the epitome of character and sportsmanship, yet that has done nothing for him.

Based on the Hall's criteria, it should...but the voters never bothered with it. Probably because it is very hard to determine character, both good or bad, as there simply is not info information about a player to truly know.

It is very possible that a player who roids up, can be deemed of better character than a player who doesn't. There are many contributing factors in making such a determination. I'm not talking about Arod here...he is a douche in any universe.

1985fan

It's the same insane reasoning that put Ozzie Smith in the hall because of his defense and ignoring his absolutely mediocre numbers, but not doing the opposite in regards to primary DH's.

NVbaseball

<< <i>
Good sportsmanship is a REQUIREMENT to get in. As well as integrity and character. Hard to measure these three requirements, but my opinion is, steroid users should be not allowed in because of this.
>>



Ty Cobb is the easy name to throw out for people who fail to meet that requirement. Tris Speaker was a member of the KKK, evidence of other Hall-of-Famers also being a part is a lot stronger than the case for Mike Piazza or Mike Mussina having used drugs. There are already several known drug users in the Hall-of-Fame. Given their fondness for other chemical alterations and the era, it's a lot more likely George Brett and Dennis Eckersly were partaking in drug use than Craig Biggio or Curt Schilling

Then there is Cap Anson. The best example of disgusting sportsmanship in American history, yet still allowed in the Hall-of-Fame

It's pretty clear good sportsmanship is not a REQUIREMENT -- and even at the start of this century wasn't even a consideration:

JoeBanzai

Ty Cobb's attitude on race was not a whole lot different than the average Southern white male of his day.

Wasn't aware Speaker was KKK, but same as Cobb, that was no big deal during his career.

Anson's disgusting behavior happened in 1883, and obviously no one stopped him then. The entire country was racist and segregated during those years, just as misguided as those three players.

Puckett's problems came out for his behavior after he was inducted in 2001, your Sports Illustrated was issued in 2003.

Brett and Eckersly? I was watching baseball during their entire careers and never heard anything about them using drugs. Ferguson Jenkins on the other hand.........................

As far as the voters go, it's pretty obvious they do what ever they feel like doing, up to and including SELLING their votes.

I am all for starting your "Hall of Statistical Achievements" put in whoever you want.

Seems like the only people who have such strong feelings belong to message boards.

NVbaseball

<< <i>
Brett and Eckersly? I was watching baseball during their entire careers and never heard anything about them using drugs. Ferguson Jenkins on the other hand.......................... >>



But what did you hear about Bagwell, Piazza, Biggio, Schilling, Mussina or Martinez during their careers? Heavy drinking in the 80s was more likely to correlate with cocaine as big muscles were with steroids in the 90s. Molitor and Cepeda should be included with Jenkins

When Babe Ruth was drinking, wasn't that a banned substance?



<< <i>Puckett's problems came out for his behavior after he was inducted in 2001, your Sports Illustrated was issued in 2003 >>



So because the voters felt like they were screwed over once before they should shut the door forever on anyone who they think might have done something that was questionable?

1985fan

<< <i>Ty Cobb's attitude on race was not a whole lot different than the average Southern white male of his day. >>



PED use was prevalent throughout the steroid era, PED users' attitude on them was not a whole lot different than the average baseball player of his day.



<< <i>Wasn't aware Speaker was KKK, but same as Cobb, that was no big deal during his career. >>



So it's ok because it was the 'norm' back then, and we should excuse the behavior?



<< <i>Anson's disgusting behavior happened in 1883, and obviously no one stopped him then. The entire country was racist and segregated during those years, just as misguided as those three players. >>



I don't get what you're trying to say? Because 'everyone' was doing it, that type of behavior should be overlooked and not brought into question?



<< <i>Puckett's problems came out for his behavior after he was inducted in 2001, your Sports Illustrated was issued in 2003. >>



Why do you insist on propping up the failings of ball players from the past?



<< <i>Brett and Eckersly? I was watching baseball during their entire careers and never heard anything about them using drugs. Ferguson Jenkins on the other hand......................... >>



Ostrich, much?



<< <i>As far as the voters go, it's pretty obvious they do what ever they feel like doing, up to and including SELLING their votes. >>



Who sold their vote? I wonder if you even realize LeBatard recived NO compensation for his vote on deadspin? Or is your head buried that deep in the sand you didn't want to realize that?



<< <i>I am all for starting your "Hall of Statistical Achievements" put in whoever you want.

Seems like the only people who have such strong feelings belong to message boards. >>



Right...only message board folks hate the current hall process. Why don't you tell me which message board Dan LeBatard hangs out on? He seems like a pretty cool guy.

At no point in your rambling diatribe did you make even a single, coherent point. Are you trying to say because racism was prevalent in this country at some point, we shouldn't be able to criticize it? With your very own words, then, PED users should be inducted since it was prevalent, there was no testing in place, and everyone was using it. How can you sit there and condemn PED users but excuse racists?